Talk:Bentonite

Old talk page posts
This clay can be obtained for medicinal/dietary use. Animals and people have used clay licks for thousands of years and some companies provide the substance as a powder with which a solution (or suspension) can be made, and taken. Apparently it helps remove toxins from the digestive system allowing the animal to consume plantation that would otherwise be poisonous. A paragraph on this usage would be useful but I do not have enough information. Oniony

Apparently it is called geophagy. Oniony

South African Bentonite

Here in South Africa Bentonite is used as animal feed, it increases their metabolising. It also work as a binder to animal feed

Broken
There is a broken link in the article, can someone redirect it to its proper location? I have not had time to figure out how to do this, or even know if the article exists.


 * Since there is no reference as to which of the various links is your broken link, I will mention one I found.
 * The link to the Oregon State University article is http://food.oregonstate.edu/glossary/bentonite.html
 * JamThi (talk) 01:31, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Acne treatment
I noticeed that Bentonite is listed as an "active ingredient" on some clearasil acne products. If anyone knows what effects bentonite has on one's dermatological health then could they please mention it in the article.
 * Bentonite is basically clay. Clay masks are a well-known treatment for acne. Clay is scientifically proven to be able to improve acne by cleansing deep into the pores, removing the dirts, and getting rid of dead skin cells. It contains some really beneficial nutrients, especially minerals, such as zinc, that have a positive impact on your acne.(quote from a website I can't link to because it's blacklisted on Wikipedia... whatever)

Map
Does anyone understand what "This map is consistent with incomplete set of data too as long as the top producer is known" actually means? It does not make a great deal of sense to me. Also data should not be published if it is incomplete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.127.176 (talk) 21:50, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Medicinal uses
The following copied from my talk page for wider audience:

I can see how the image I put on there may be considered spammy and a couple of references unreliable and I have therefore removed them, but I refuse to remove the mention of medical benefits with the reference to about.com. On there website, they link to the follwing research:

Sources

Abdel-Wahhab MA, Nada SA, Farag IM, et al. Potential protective effect of HSCAS and bentonite against dietary aflatoxicosis in rat: with special reference to chromosomal aberrations. Nat Toxins.1998; 6:211-218.

Ducrotte P, Dapoigny M, Bonaz B, Siproudhis L. Symptomatic efficacy of beidellitic montmorillonite in irritable bowel syndrome: a randomized, controlled trial. Aliment Pharmacol Ther. 2005 Feb 15;21(4):435-44.

Santurio JM, Mallmann CA, Rosa AP, et al. Effect of sodium bentonite on the performance and blood variables of broiler chickens intoxicated with aflatoxins. Br Poult Sci. 1999; 40:115-119.

PDR Health. Bentonite. 

Jason7825 (talk) 22:16, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Removed again. About.com is "not" a reliable source. Also the re-added link-bits to the sodium and calcium bentonite sections were pure spam (sales page of an alt. med. retail supplier). A note regarding health and/or medicinal uses would be appropriate if properly sourced. Also, note the current references were used in support of the article - they are not ext. links, rather references predating the current ref tag system. Vsmith (talk) 22:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * those citations don't appear to come just from about.com, for instance santurio et al is at . bentonite is used for broadly medical reasons, no doubt, and the article can include that usage without making any claims as to its efficacy. a source from the uk's national cancer institute: . (this now seems to redirect to some outsourced site, and its relationship with the national cancer institute is not clear. Mongreilf-4/4/09) its use in "colon cleansing" or acne treatments again can be noted without any claims as to its efficacy, a source only needs to say it is used and this use is widespread enough to be notable. a note regarding any known lack of efficacy, properly sourced, could also be added. i'll come back in a few days and if nothing is written here i'll edit the article accordingly--Mongreilf (talk) 13:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Manking/Humankind
A recent edit replaced 'mankind' with 'humankind'. I, personally, feel this is an unnecessary P.C. edit, as 'man' does not just refer to males but the human race, and hence the primary definition of 'mankind' means just that, not 'malekind'. However, I am aware that this is probably the sort of topic that there is much debate and an agreed standard on in Wikipedia, which I am happy to follow. So, what is Wikipedia's standard on this? I couldn't find it documented so if anyone was able to add it to one of those FAQ-standards-styleguide pages that would be great too. a_boardley (talk) 10:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Both OED and Webster's give the primary meaning of "man" (that is, the one listed first and prefixed with "1.") as "a human being, whether male or female," and similarly for "mankind." Presumably Special:Contributions/71.217.153.210 made the change as part of a program of changing the meaning of "mankind" to make it symmetric with "womankind," which does refer specifically to females.  If at some point in the future "mankind" comes to refer specifically to males then the change will be warranted.  In the meantime Wikipedia should not be in the business of trying to bring about or endorse language changes in response to factions promoting such changes.  --Vaughan Pratt (talk) 00:44, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This argument will never be settled until there is a generally accepted gender neutral personal pronoun.
 * JamThi (talk) 01:44, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

The name 'bentonite'
Hey all, sorry I am not making this edit directly on the article...though a long-time wiki reader, I haven't really messed around editing articles yet. Maybe I'm scared to. I will someday, someday soon, but in the meanwhile, I present this information in case anyone finds it useful or wants to incorporate in the bentonite article.

My problem is with this sentence: "The absorbent clay was given the name bentonite by an American geologist sometime after its discovery in about 1890 — after the Benton Formation (a geological stratum, at one time Fort Benton) in Montana's Rock Creek area."

I'm living in Montana right now and researching a film about bentonite, so I wanted to locate "The Benton Formation." However, this sentence was unsourced, and when I contacted a historian in Fort Benton, MT, he had no knowledge of a "Benton Formation" in MT (though he knew of one in Colorado and one in Iowa). My research did turn up this source, however, the State of Wyoming Geologic Survey , which states: "Bentonite, originally known as ‘mineral soap’ or ‘soap clay’, was named ‘bentonite’ in 1898 by Wilbur C. Knight for deposits in the Benton Shale near Rock River, Wyoming" (which, to be clear, is nowhere near the Montana border).

I'm not even sure Fort Benton is/was in Montana's Rock Creek area, but in any case, since I can actually cite my source, WY Geologic Survey's info should probably replace the problematic, uncited info currently there. Sorry this talk entry is so rambling. Hey, it's my first. This is why I'm not editing the real article. Thanks for your patience. I'll hone my posting skills in time. At least I'm practicing on a fairly quiet talk page...

Duckducksquid (talk) 21:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, just noted this and changed the article w/ Wyo Geo Survey as source. Vsmith (talk) 23:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Med uses
Removed two bits - one sourced to a primary source with no mention of bentonite (see WP:SYN) and the other to a univ. publicity blurb which also did not mention bentonite. Other sources used in that section are questionable (non-WP:RS) - "www.drugs.com" and "www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com", as subject to removal. Vsmith (talk) 23:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

_______________________________

Question for Vsmith

Dr Lynda Williams and Dr Shelley Haydel of Arizona State University have been studying the medicinal qualities and effectiveness of the French green clays, which are mostly made of minerals called smectite and illite. These are antibacterial clays.

The definition of "Bentonite clay" is very vague, as the main article, itself, shows:

"Bentonite is an absorbent aluminium phyllosilicate, generally impure clay consisting mostly of montmorillonite. There are a few types of bentonites and their names depend on the dominant elements, such as K, Na, Ca, and Al. As noted in several places in the geologic literature, there are some nomenclatorial problems with the classification of bentonite clays. ...the term bentonite, as well as a similar clay called tonstein, have been used for clay beds of uncertain origin."

In fact, "Bentonite" typically refers to a wide spectrum of clays with a wide spectrum of properties (such as a variety of colours). In alternative medicine, this is more like a catch-all term for medicinal clays. The term "Bentonite" is in effect interchangeable with the term "montmorillonite". Also, "Fuller’s Earth" seems to be equivalent to "Bentonite".


 * http://www.sorptive.org/minerals/attapulgite/ says that attapulgite is also known as fuller's earth. The article also points out the difference between attapulgite and bentonite.
 * JamThi (talk) 02:54, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

So my question is, How does Vsmith know that these clays that Drs Williams and Haydel studies are not "bentonite", since a clear definition of "bentonite" doesn't even exist? Dyuku (talk) 22:26, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If they meant "bentonite" they would state "bentonite". To assume they were speaking of bentonite is simple WP:OR. If you want an article about healing clays -- write one and see if it works. Vsmith (talk) 23:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * your first sentence is an assumption too Vsmith. many things have more than one name, and unclear terminology is common. sorting it all out (with proper sourcing) does not constitute OR. see WP:NOTOR for an essay on this topic. whether this is the case here i have no idea--Mongreilf (talk) 08:44, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yup, they're referring specifically to two iron-rich clay minerals and since nowhere is it mentioned that bentonite is iron rich, I'm assuming they weren't talking 'bout bentonite. To make that "jump" would be completely unsupported. Vsmith (talk) 13:34, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Removed "www.drugs.com" and "www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com" sourced bits as not reliable sourced. Vsmith (talk) 00:02, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

_____________________________

In fact, bentonite has plenty of iron, often over 5% of Fe2O3.

See, http://www.syngenta.co.th/upload/mar/FullerEarth.pdf

where montmorillonite/bentonite clay is listed at 6.5% of Fe2O3. Dyuku (talk) 17:25, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * And ... the Handbook of Mineralogy lists montmorillonite w/ <1% Fe2O3. So, are they referring to iron rich montmorillonite/bentonite? To make that jump would be WP:SYN.
 * Your link above is to a commercial Thai site giving the specs for a product - I assume - so not a WP:RS
 * However, the source you cite does mention (further down) the use of bentonite and/or fuller's earth as absorbent materials in treatment of paraquat poisoning. So that source, or rather the cited book (Handbook of Pesticide Toxicology), would be a usable source for med use of bentonite. Vsmith (talk) 18:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I looked around the Net at various smectite clays (bentonite, montmorillonite, Fuller's earth), and there's a wide variety of iron contents. Some go as high as 10%, such as here, http://krishnamineralindustries.com/page5/page8/page8.html Your Handbook of Mineralogy example really cites the low of the range, and doesn't seem representative. But of course all this is somewhat besides the point now... I agree that the treatment of paraquat poisoning is relevant, and should be noted on the page. Regards, Dyuku (talk) 22:33, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

________________________________________________

Hi Everyone... I'm not a "wiki" guy, but I did want to add some information here ( I'm not a big fan of "truth by committee ), in case anyone actually wanted to pursue truth.

I supplied a few of the samples of clay to Arizona State University, that they used in the studies. One of the antimicrobial clays is actually a calcium bentonite with enough sodium included to give it swelling properties ( over 1% sodium ). I'm Jason Eaton, founder of Eytons' Earth, and have been researching the healing clays of the world for about 15 years. We run an eductional organization and a public outreach.

Thanks! ...edit away... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.10.97 (talk) 02:33, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

new page on healing/medicinal clays
I think I'll take advice of Vsmith, and create a separate page on healing/medicinal clays. I've been researching this subject, and there's quite a lot of material to put in there. Documented use of such clays for healing goes back to ancient times. Just about every health spa uses such clays, so a separate page is needed to reflect various uses. Clearly, there are some problems with nomenclature, that can be clarified somewhat.

After a new page is up and running, then perhaps some of the material referring specifically to bentonite clays can be copied back to bentonite page. I'll do it in the next few days. Dyuku (talk) 17:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Good plan as there is likely sufficient verifiable info to work from. Please avoid commercial sources and hype - stay with reliable sources. You might want to look at Geophagy as a related topic. Vsmith (talk) 19:43, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

question about "drugs.com" as valid ref
I would like to ask Vsmith and others about whether it is valid to use "drugs.com" site as a valid ref. Because my info and ref was deleted based on using "drugs.com". Well, I've done a search, and it looks like this is quite a popular site at Wikipedia...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Aen.wikipedia.org+%22drugs.com%22&btnG=Search

According to Google, this site is now used 292 times at Wikipedia! So is it valid or not? Dyuku (talk) 15:44, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm... Anyway, your ref simply stated something about using bentonite magma to increase the viscosity of Calamine lotion. This so-called bentonite magma is simply a suspending agent (see ). Vsmith (talk) 03:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Is "bentonite clay" the same as "bentone clay?"
In the field of chemistry concerned with greases and lubricants, some forms of grease are described as using "bentone clay" as a thickening or gelling agent. Is this the same material as "bentonite?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.41.40.21 (talk) 18:28, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Industrial and pharmaceutical products that start with bento- contain bentonite clay, but other substances as well. Bentone clay is most likely a clay based on bentonite, but with additions. Rumiton (talk) 15:23, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Too long Thai farming
The discussion with respect to Thai farming takes up about one quarter of the actual content of this Wiki article. I think this is disproportionate and propose to edit this to a shorter note with references for the details. Gierszep (talk) 02:00, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Shortened since no comments otherwise. Gierszep (talk) 01:58, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Wrong category
Bentonite is NOT a phyllosilicate. It is a rock COMPOSED OF MINERALS BELONGING TO A CLASS OF PHYLLOSILIACTES. This is a major difference. Eudialytos (talk) 18:25, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Environmental concerns
Several Internet sites of questionable credibility reference bentonite mining as an extremely-damaging practice and warn away from clumping cat litter because of this. Something should be added about the mining of bentonite, its industry value, and its environmental impacts—be they notably high or low. Bentonite is a notable input in many industries, and so the GDP value and environmental considerations are notable whatever their magnitude. John Moser (talk) 21:59, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Radiation
I understand Bentonite is used in the long term sealing/burial of nuclear waste? Would be good to include this in the article. MikeJamesShaw (talk) 04:39, 23 December 2019 (UTC)