Talk:Beretta 92F/FS

I have a question about the "combined decocking lever/safety". With the hammer cocked does engageing the safety cause the hammer to fall safely like the SIG P-226, or does it "de-cock" the weapon in some other sense with hammer staying back in the cocked position?


 * --The hammer falls when the safety or decocker is applied. --D.E. Watters 00:25, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

-- The firing pin pad is turned away, it will not convey the impact of the hammer. Also, since trigger was not pulled, the trigger safety will prevent firing pin from moving even if firing pin is hit. Alex R. A.

Combat Use is kind of confusing, especially the part that says
 * "Many soldiers serving in military today, though never having used a military M1911A1 .45 cal, still feel it to be the rightful pistol of the U.S. Military and show animosity towards the M9. In Iraq, many soldiers and Marines felt that the M9 is more effective halting cars than their rifle, not due to its (inferior) stopping power, but because the sight of a pistol being drawn still reminds Iraqis of the days when the Saddam Hussein era government would execute people with a pistol, not a rifle. Hence, he who has the pistol is in charge." 

isn't the Beretta 92 the same thing as the M9? Aznfurball 02:20, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

-- It is, though it has written on the slide that it is M9. Some say that M9 has worse finish (paint) than the 92FS. Military pays less for the M9 than you or I would for 92FS, seems that Beretta takes a few short cuts with the M9. Not much but some say they see the difference in quality.

Filmography Reverts
The constant reverts to incorrect info is becoming a pet peeve. Only list major appearances, or create a seperate article. Frankly, the Beretta 92 has been in a lot of films and TV shows; we do not need to list every single one. But if we are going to list these programs, make certain that you are listing correct info.
 * 1. Do not list anything prior to 1976. The Beretta 92 did not enter production until this year.


 * 2. Do not list appearances of Beretta pistols other than the Model 92. For example, Bronson used a Beretta 84 in Death Wish II.


 * 3. Make certain that the pistols used are actually Beretta 92, and not other makes and models.

Examples:
 * Starsky and Hutch (TV): Starsky called his pistol a Beretta, but it was actually a Smith & Wesson, either the Model 39 or 59.
 * CHiPs (TV): The CHP officers carried revolvers not the Beretta 92.
 * CHiPs (Movie): Who really knows what anyone will be carrying in this film, it isn't out for another 2 years. FWIW: The CHP currently issues S&W 4006.
 * 48 Hrs.: Nolte carried a M1911 and later a S&W large-frame revolver, probably a Model 29.
 * Another 48 Hrs.: Nolte again carries a S&W large-frame revolver, probably a Model 29.
 * Miami Vice (TV): Over the course of the series, Crockett either carried a SIG P220, a Bren Ten, a S&W 645, a S&W 4506, a Detonics Combat Master, and a S&W 6906.  Tubbs carried a S&W Bodyguard revolver and sometimes a SIG P226.
 * Cobra: Stallone carried a Colt Commander.
 * Red Heat: Arnold has a modified Desert Eagle and later a S&W Model 29 revolver. Belushi carries a snubnose S&W large-frame revolver, probably a Model 629.
 * Mad Max and its sequels: Max carried a sawed-off double barrel shotgun, not a Beretta 92.
 * Magnum P.I.: Magnum carried a M1911, not a Beretta 92.
 * Nash Bridges: Nash carried a custom M1911, not a Beretta 92.
 * Any Steven Seagal film: Seagal typically carries some variant of the M1911. --D.E. Watters 02:37, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Merge
I see no need for the merge notice added by Darz Mol. This seems to be the first on the talk page about this, and I invited the user to come here and comment. -Mulder416 01:26, 21 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I have added a new merge notice and suggest that this page be merged into Beretta 92. There should never have been separate pages for all the variants of the Beretta 92 model. We now sit with the typical problem associated with this type of duplication:
 * All pages for these variants contain large sections that are identical (duplication)
 * Contributions to one page aren't propegated to other
 * Each page viewed on it's own does not make sense at all, so for instance a page for the "Beretta 96D Brigadier Inox" doesn't really show that's simply a Beretta 92 in .40S&W with the optional heavier slide and finished in stainless steel and gone is the history of thre Beretta 92, lists of other variants or options, in short, no context.
 * The 92F and 92FS isn't even the same thing, but two distinct variants (or developments) of the first 92. On the 92's page this is now explained and made clear and there is a spot for each variant to be described in however must detail is required.
 * I think we can move the nice sections on "(dis)advantages", "sport use", "combat use" to the 92's page and then merge ("redirect") this page. What do you guys say? Deon Steyn 13:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. -- nae'blis (talk) 21:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have merged this page with Beretta 92 (by redirect) and I'm also adding this talk section to thaht page's talk section. Deon Steyn 11:33, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the M9 Trials Winner and the Disputed Contract Bids
At the end of the M9 Trials and the completion of the first round of bidding, the SIG P226 had the leading score of 853.6 in six evaluation factors, while the Beretta 92 scored 835.34.

However, in the final bids for the M9 contract, Beretta underbid Saco (SIG's U.S. importer at the time). Saco bid $77,816,000 for the pistols, magazines, and spare parts. Beretta bid $74,762,000. This was controversial since in the original series of bids, Saco had underbid Beretta by just over $9 million. With the final prices factored in, the scores changed to Beretta 858, Saco 847.

This led to allegations that the Army had leaked Saco's bids to Beretta for the purposes of undercutting them. This argument was bolstered by the fact that Beretta USA's gerneral manager delivered their final bid personally. The bid document was type-written with blanks for the final prices, which were then written in and initialed with ink by the general manager. The General Accounting Office investigated this upon request by Congress. The report is titled Pistol Procurement - Allegations on Army Selection of Beretta 9-mm as DOD Standard Sidearm (June 1986). --D.E. Watters 00:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Some of the language in the section(s) regarding the Small Arms trials and efficacy in combat need to have the language neutralized; they read like either apologetics or advertisements. -- nae'blis (talk) 19:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)