Talk:Berkshires/Archive 1

Regional map
Regional map much needed + ASSERT EXPERT TEMPLATE and 'geo-stub for attention (One showing other NEARBY mountain regions WITH DIFFERENTIATION) I was trying to see the Catskills extent relative to the map in Appalachian Plateau... but others would have a similar need trying to distinquish between the Green Mountains,VT; The Berkshires in MA; and Adirondack Mountains. et. al. don't you agree? Fra nkB 18:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * never put stub templates on a talk page!  BL Lacertae -  kiss the lizard  00:52, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I made a map a while ago showing the US northeast Appalachians, the Berkshires, Catskills, etc, relative to one another. I'd just add it, but there's already a map here, and I wanted to ask first in case it is too cluttered, etc.  It is at the Commons: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:NortheastAppalachiansMap.jpg  Pfly 21:03, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Berkshires
This article needs to differentiate different ranges or massifs making up the "Berkshires". Geologically speaking, there is a western massachusetts upland starting near the center of the state that gradually rises westward.


 * That section is referred to as the Worcester Plateau.Bhawthorne 23:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

This upland is interrupted by the Pioneer (Connecticut River) Valley that happens to be a downfaulted block of land called a "graben" by geologists as far north as Greenfield.

Uplands resume west of this graben above slopes some 200 meters high that must originally have been a fault escarpment. The first few rows of towns along the top of this escarpment and in the narrow river valleys (Westfield and Deerfield) through these hills are known as the "Hilltowns". Further west and perhaps two hundred meters higher are the Berkshires proper.


 * Actually, the Hilltowns ARE the Berkshires proper. The Berkshire foothills are just west of the Connecticut river valley, and the land then rises to the west, with the Deerfield and Westfield rivers flowing generally east and south into the Connecticut. The highest elevations are found along the watershed divide between the Deerfield/Westfield/Farmington to the east, and the Housatonic/Hudson to the west.Bhawthorne 23:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Although there is no geological border between Hilltowns and Berkshires, there is an important cultural-historical transition somewhere near the watershed. West of this divide is an extension of upstate New York.  From Lee, Lenox and the Mass Pike south is a tourist zone, virtually a second Catskills.  Further north, Pittsfield and North Adams are still somewhat industrial, but there is still plenty of tourism in this NW corner.  East of the divide are hilltowns (subsistence farms) and milltowns.  Tourism is less intensive than in "The Berkshires", but they do come from Boston and the Connecticut River Valley as far south as Hartford. Hilltowners definitely go east to the CRV for culture, health care and shopping. In the last few decades there has been exurban development for academics, intellectuals and folks with gender issues. There may be a zone of overlap, but a touristy place like Tanglewood or Jacobs Pillow in the Berkshires is hugely different from a hilltown like Montgomery or Worthington. LADave 00:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

There is no clearcut boundary between Hilltowns and Bershire mountains and the distinction may be geologically trivial.


 * Well, they are two separate things. The Berkshire Mountains refer to the geological feature (southern extension of the Green Mountains into Massachusetts). The Hilltowns are the Massachusetts towns that are located in the Berkshire Mountains. Of course, to confuse the issue totally, "The Berkshires" is a the phrase used by the Berkshires Visitors Bureau to refer exclusively to the area in the former Berkshire County, much of which is located in the Taconic Mountains.Bhawthorne 23:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

The Berkshires proper are bounded on the west by a series of valleys. These are drained by the Housatonic River in the south and the Hoosic in the North. Apparently there is limestone or dolomite underlying these valleys, even some respectable caves. Finally the Taconic Range rises beyond these valleys along the Massachusetts-New York border. The Taconic Range is geologically distinct from the Berkshires and includes Mt. Greylock, the state's highest mountain, just over 1,000 meters. The Berkshires are more plateau or massif than a range of mountains, while the Taconics are narrower and more of a conventional mountain range.

The Berkshire-Hilltown uplands continue south into Connecticut as hills and north into Vermont as the Green Mountains and less famously into New Hampshire as mountains that don't seem to have a collective name (the White Mountains start further north). The Taconics continue into Connecticut and Vermont as well, and overlap into New York. They also generally become higher to the north.

Well, I'm no expert but I hope my borderline incompetence provokes a geographer or geologist into writing something more definitive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.53.234 (talk) 08:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

What is 'The Berkshires'?
I speak as someone who was raised in Lenox, Berkshire County, from 1967 through 1993, and return to visit my family frequently. In earlier times, 'The Berkshires' was only a geographical designation of a mountain range, and one would never say they lived 'In The Berkshires'. As tourism took over the southern part of Berkshire County from industry in the 1980s, some tourists and pundits referred to the area as 'The Berkshires' as a way to promote its clubbishness, in the style of 'The Hamptons' of Long island, New York. As native economy, community, and culture were wiped out and replaced by businesses catering to a culture of "New Age" (primarily refugees from New York City and California), the tears shed for the vanished Yankee culture were quickly collected by a similar breed of invasive opportunistic outsiders, resulting in the 'fake folk' kitsch typified by Norman Rockwell's depiction of the area. The abolishment of Berkshire County as a legal body was not well received by its residents. To this day, there is a quiet distinction made in the minds of those who continue to live in "Berkshire County" between those who can comfortably spout the term "The Berkshires" and those who try to avoid the moniker. There are other code words which can be also used to distinguish between a native and the 'new people', but that is information i will not share with the public. The upshot of what i am saying is, that if you say "The Berkshires" to a native, it comes across as an slightly out of key. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobkeyes (talk • contribs) 04:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation page needed
The Berkshires needs a disambiguation page that goes to: What do folks think? Bhawthorne 23:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Berkshire County - information about the (now) historic county of Berkshire. List the towns, map of town boundaries, etc.
 * 2) The Berkshires cultural area, including information about the Berkshires Visitors Bureau, and adjacent areas in VT, NY, and CT. Include a map of towns from the CT river to the east, to some where in the Taconic Mountains in NY to the west, and north and south somewhere.
 * 3) The Berkshire Mountains, including geological and ecological information on the mountain range, the Berkshire Plateau, etc.


 * I think all the geology belongs in in Geology of Massachusetts. This has yet to be written, but it's part of a new series on the 50 states.  I don't have a coherent opinion on ecology, but I suspect elevation matters much more than longitude. Do the Taconics have a different ecology than the Berkshires?  The narrower, rockier Taconics dry out in the summer, but Mt. Everett is part of a considerable massif that could be ecologically more like the Berkshires. The cultural topic should be developed.  There is some coverage in Western Massachusetts, except it is stronger on Pioneer Valley culture.  Nevertheless Berkshire cultural and historical material could be added there.  Disambiguation is fine, provided we point to material that doesn't necessarily have "Berkshire" in the  title LADave 00:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Culturally, Berkshire County has become so diluted, without much of a whimper of its passing. I could write here about the boundaries of the county and the self-identity of its residents, but much of this would be heresay, as it is only the recollection and opinion of one person. Were there some authoritative works on the passing of this culture, perhaps they could be cited. But what to do until then? A collection of trivia may be entertaining to some (hey! you used to be able to dial parts of NY state for free, but the neighboring town of Richmond was a toll call - why was that?) but there's got to be a better forum for this than Wikipedia. Perhaps we need to find it, or invent it, and then reference it. Bobkeyes (talk) 05:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I beg to differ.
As someone who grew up in Pittsfield, as the kid of two parents who were born there, from 1960 to 1982, I don't recall references to "the Berkshires" as sounding especially touristy. Identifying one's self as being from Berkshire County may have been a bit more common, but the previous (unsigned) commenter may be venting a little B.C. anti-New Yorker spleen here. "The Berkshires" as a designation is fine. And in any case, there are no more counties in Massachusetts, correct? Jperrylsu (talk) 02:02, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I grew up in Williamstown in the 1970s, and it was definitely normal to hear talk of "the Berkshires"--to my ears it's not analogous to "The Hamptons." I always assumed it was an abbreviation of "The Berkshire Hills," just like "The Catskills" is an abbreviation for "The Catskill Mountains" and "The Whites" is an abbreviation for "The White Mountains." 65.213.77.129 (talk) 15:06, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Arts Info
I tried to clarify the explanation of the Berkshires' cultural institutions somewhat, moving the summer-camp info so that it will follow the paragraph on outdoor recreation, instead of being lumped in with the discussion of the performing arts. I also deleted the linked mentions of private art galleries. Carrie Haddad Gallery, for one thing, is not in the Berkshires (it's in Hudson, NY). Kolok Gallery is in the Berkshires and has been mentioned once in the New York Times, but I'm not sure whether that makes it prominent enough to mention here. If other editors judge that it is in fact prominent enough to be included in this article, it should probably have its own Wikipedia article, and this article should link to that rather than to the gallery's commercial website. 65.213.77.129 (talk) 16:21, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

What are the boundaries?
The article says the Berkshires (in the topographical/geological sense) extend to the western (ancient) escarpment of Pioneer Valley, however the map shows them beginning further west. It also isn't clear how far south they extend. If informed opinion doesn't agree, we should explain this instead of having inconsistencies that are never explored. LADave (talk) 04:55, 9 July 2011 (UTC)