Talk:Bernard J. S. Cahill

Category problems
1) "World Maps"

2007-05-11 update: "World Maps" category remains a Wikipedia anomaly. Another user has re-deleted that category link here, without explanation. Although one "World Maps" page has a re-direct to "World Map", http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=World_maps&redirect=no there is, nevertheless, a different "World Maps" Wikipedia page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category%3AWorld_maps , which is a repository of world map images, though not edited since 2006-08-26. --Gene Keyes Esperanto41

[2007-04-07] I have restored "World Maps" as a category because Cahill's invention is quintessentially a world map. However, there is a better Wikipedia category, "World map" (singular; and where I have illustrated the Cahill map, and linked back to the Cahill article), but after many attempts, I was not able to get the Cahill page to link there as a category: it always tries to create a new "World map" page. (At least I was able to insert "World map" as an internal link, without the new-page problem of the unsuccessful category link.)

--Gene Keyes Esperanto41

2) Sort Order

2007-05-11 update: I tried to correct the alphabetization problem (below) within "Births..." & "Deaths...", & "People from San Francisco" by inserting a piped link (vertical bar plus "Cahill, Bernard J.S.") in the Cahill article for those categories, but for some reason that did not work in the "People from San Francisco" category-page. Then I tried to do an across-the-board corrrection by adding "DEFAULTSORT:Cahill, Bernard J.S." in double braces. This produces entirely correct sorting in all categories if I read Wikipedia in Netscape 7 on an OS 9 Mac--but NOT if I use Mac's Explorer 5 or iCab browsers.

--Gene Keyes Esperanto41

[2007-04-07]: Three categories which I did not put in--Births in 1866; Deaths in 1944; and People from San Francisco--all list Cahill in the "B" column, not the "C" column. Can anyone fix that?

--Gene Keyes Esperanto41 22:29, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Cahill's invention was a world map, but Cahill himself is not. If there was an article about his map then it would belong in that category. I'll leave it to you to decide what to do with it. Remy B 05:17, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Restoring Cahill portrait deletion
The portrait of B.J.S. Cahill which I included with my original draft of this article was deleted by Calliopejen1 and/or  Nv8200p. That was a major degradation of the article, and so I am restoring the portrait. See my explanation cross-posted at their respective talk pages, where I cited this e-mail exchange with the libraries at UC Berkeley:

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 12:43:46 -0700 From: Myrtis Cochran  Subject: Re: Bancroft Library credited for B.J.S. Cahill research results To: Gene Keyes , fvanbure [AT] library.berkeley.edu Cc: abliss [AT] library.berkeley.edu

Dear Mr. Keyes- I am back from vacation and just receiving your message. Since I am not a member of the Bancroft Library staff, I am forwarding your message to Anthony Bliss, Curator, Rare Books and Literary Manuscripts, Bancroft Library. I am sure he will share your message with the appropriate individuals. Congratulations on your web site publications. Myrtis Cochran Interim Head, Research and Collections Humanities and Social Sciences

At 09:57 PM 6/5/2007, Gene Keyes wrote: 2007-06-06 To: Myrtis Cochran, Interim Head, Research and Collections for Humanities and Social Sciences / Reference/Humanities Librarian Fatemah Van Buren, Head & Map Cataloging Specialist Dear friends, In the pre-Internet era, twenty-four years ago, May and June 1983, I spent nine days doing research at the Bancroft Library's Bernard Joseph Stanislaus Cahill Papers (83/89) and his Butterfly Map manuscripts in the Doe Library Map Room. (On a trip from east-coast Canada.)

Now, after an unintended hiatus, some fruits of that research are beginning to appear on my website (and a Wikipedia article I authored), with credit to the Bancroft Library:

http://www.genekeyes.com/B.J.S._CAHILL_RESOURCE.html

http://www.genekeyes.com/CAHILL_GALLERY/Cahill_Gallery_Thumb_Index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_J.S._Cahill

If you are not the most appropriate recipients of this heads-up, could you please forward my e-mail to whom it may concern? (I know there is also a Cahill collection at the Environmental Design Archives, but most of my research was among Cahill's maps, and at Bancroft.)

Sincerely,

Gene Keyes (Former Asst. Prof., Political Science, Brandon and St. Thomas Universities)

____________________________________ Myrtis Cochran, Reference and Humanities Librarian Interim Head, Research and Collections for the Humanities and Social Sciences 212 Doe Library University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 mcochran [AT] library.berkeley.edu, Ph: 510-643-2281, Fax: 510-643-0315 "Once you learn to read you will be forever free"-- Frederick Douglass

--Gene Keyes Esperanto41 2008-02-12 —Preceding comment was added at 07:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Overzealous deleters strike again
Replies to above, first posted at Esperanto41 talk

Hi there, I didn't delete the image, I just nominated it for deletion. Anyways you should not restore it unless you can resolve the underlying copyright issue. The problem is that normally a library doesn't own the copyright to the contents of papers it houses. Who took the photo? That person is the owner of the copyright. Just because the library owns the physical copy of the photo does not mean it can release the rights for using the photo. If you do not have permission from the copyright owner, it is impermissible to include the photo here. Because Cahill lived so long ago, we should be able to find a picture of him that is dated before 1923, which would mean that its copyright has expired. Hopefully this clears things up. Calliopejen1 (talk) 07:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I would love for the image to be on Wikipedia, however, it is a copyright violation to have it posted. Please provide more information on the copyright status of the image. The library the image came from should be able to help you out. If the library holds the copyright, try requesting permiissin to use the image under a free license (See WP:COPYREQ). There is a good possibility the image is in the public domain and the library would possibly know. I deleted the image again. Please do not repost the image until copyright issues are resolved. -Regards Nv8200p talk 12:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

2008-02-12 Reply by Esperanto41 to CalliopeJen1 and NV8200p:

This is not a photo worthy of copyright quicksand. It is of a deceased and nearly forgotten architect and cartographer. The picture has no ID as to date (1930s?) or photographer, who is likely as long dead as his subject If some copyright claimant (and who the hell would that be??) wishes to step forward and demand its removal from Wikipedia, then there would be reason to examine the matter. Meanwhile, of course, I derive no commercial or monetary benefit from the image; this is strictly an academic, fair-usage posting. (Which will now go onto my own website, Keyes, Gene, B.J.S. Cahill Butterfly Map Resource Page.)

As you see, I notified the maze of libraries at UC Berkeley about my use of some Cahill materials, providing an opportunity for any objections to be raised; none were. To engage in a prolonged copyright search in that bureaucracy would be a profound waste of their time and mine on a makework triviality.

I regret and resent the uncalled-for meddling by both of you in a subject you have no interest in. You have degraded a worthwhile Wikipedia page for no better reason than legaloid dog-in-the-mangerism.

I also resent the fork-tongued notion that Jen did not delete the picture; only requested someone else do it. Oh, please.

Gene Keyes Esperanto41

External links modified
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