Talk:Bernese Mountain Dog/Archive 1

Similarities/differences with St Bernards?
This breed is probably often confused with St Bernards - is there a connection / important differences? Thrapper 16:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

There is a major difference
These are two different breeds and their colors and appearance are quite different. Also, the St.Bernards are quite a bit larger than the Bernese.

However, both breeds have similar good tempraments, and are both Swiss, so they are related in that sense. I'm not sure if there is actual blood reltaion between them but many consider them to be "cousins".

--tal :) 19:27, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

outdoor dogs?
Not likely. Most parts of the country they'll be miserably hot in the summer. Plus, they really want to be inside with their families. In fact, quite a few of them are outdoor dogs and generally they are happy with it, provided they were raised as outdoor dogs since puppyhood (trying to make indoor Bernese into outdoor Bernese or visa versa at an adult age is strongly discouraged). Also, the climate conditions vary significantly from country to country and in many cold areas the Bernese will not suffer in the fall and will be very glad to stay outside during the cold winter. Anyhow, it should be kept in mind that regardless of where they stay the Bernese require a lot of love and attention from their families, and give much love and loyalty in return. --Tal :) 12:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I definately concur. While they do enjoy--weather permitting--outside time, they are indoor dogs.  To be kept outside and away from its family for long periods would be very hard on every Berner I've known.--Sam Harmon 18:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Burmese Mountain Dogs vs Bernese Mountain Dogs
Why does a search for Burmese Mountain Dogs redirect to Bernese Mountain Dogs? Burmese Mountain Dogs are a completely different breed. TEN 17:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * There is no such breed as a Burmese Mtn Dog. There is no mountain dog that originates from the mountains of Burma, there is only some confusion on the internet.  The Burnese is sometimes confused with the Greater Swiss Mtn dog and that is what someone might be talking about. There is no such mountain dog from Berma (an Asian country). Mrhyak 23:17, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Burmese or Bernese?
The name of the dog is "Bernese Mountain Dog", but the name of the file has "Burmese" in it... it should be changed.

EDIT: Looks like there are two links to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_mountain_dog and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernese_mountain_dog.

Agamemnus 15:26, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The re-direct IMO should be left since it is a common mistake for those not as familiar with this breed to call it a Bermese Mtn Dog. Since there actually is no dog of that name, the re-direct will send them to where they intended to go. Mrhyak 04:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Wolf
Being an owner of a Bernese, I think some of this information may help improve the page. As far as I am aware, the Bernese Mountain was brought to the UK and Euorpe by the romans as they used them for guard dogs (tying them up around the fort). Also, a mention of the dogs "wolf" insctints may imporve the article. Countless times has my dog woken me up with her howling!!! (Proper wolf howling)

Your thoughts? Matt9537 (talk) 16:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Our Berner never did any howling and this is the first I've ever heard of a Bernese having "Wolf" instints. The BMD is thought of a breed that is a gentle, but strong working dog. My vote would be to leave this out of the article. Mrhyak (talk) 17:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry Matt, but I agree with Mrhyak on this one. I own one, and she doesn't howl. Bark loudly, yes, but doesn't howl. Maybe your dog has wolf genes? THE KC (talk) 00:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC).


 * Fair enough. To be honest - I never heard my dog howl - but dad insisted that it did - no one believed him. Then one night, I couldnt sleep and I heard it! It was weird. Guess its the frequency that it wont wake you up or soemthing. I agree there is a lack of evidence to put this in - but was curious in case anyone else had experieced it. What about the Romans? Matt9537 (talk) 21:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Grooming the Berner Sennen
The article states: "A good brushing every week or two is sufficient to keep it in fine shape, except when the undercoat is being shed; then daily combing is in order for the duration of the moult. Bernese Mountain Dogs shed year-round," Which, to me, says that a weekly (or two) brushing should suffice, except when they are shedding, which is the entire year. Maybe that needs clearing up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.159.81.117 (talk) 01:17, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Temperament section
There is a proposal that Temperament sections be eliminated as they usually contain very similar vague and unreferenced platitudes. Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs.

The temperament section on this article is an example of unreferenced statements that could apply to any dog (or maybe not!) I added a paragraph quoting the breed standard, but the rest should probably be removed.--Hafwyn (talk) 21:47, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

outdoor dogs
They are outdoor dogs but cannot handle the hot weather due to their thick coats. In cooler climates they are better outdoor dogs where as in warmer climates they should be kept inside and out of the heat. They are suited to live and work outdoors in the proper climate.
 * This is a silly discussion. The premises are slippery.
 * Depends on where you are. I would not call them a Florida outdoor dog for the antecedent reason, but they are great on Michigan.  Even in the latter, summmer can be a problem, but they love the water, and spend a lot of time in it if it is available.  Their thick coat does provide insulation from both cold and heat -- hey, they are a "Mountain dog == like the Pyrenean Mountain Dog or Leonberger for example -- for what that implies.  If one means by "outdoor" that they should be warehoused outside, that is plainly contraindicated.  These are family/farm dogs, and they need both companionship and a job. They are not "high energy" like a Border Collie, for example, and need only moderate exercise. 7&amp;6=thirteen (talk) 16:50, 5 December 2010 (UTC) Stan

Infobox is not displaying properly
For whatever reason, the infobox has a lot more information in it than it displays in the article. I know this is true of Bernese Mountain Dog, and would guess it may be true in many other dog breeds. There is a technical problem. 7&amp;6=thirteen (talk) 15:50, 5 December 2010 (UTC) Stan
 * Just had a look and it's showing all the information that's coded into the infobox. In order to see the links for the standards, you just need to click "show". At the moment there's nothing coded into the traits section. Miyagawa   (talk)  16:45, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Never mind, nothing to see here.  That would a 'duh-moment.'  Operator error.  7&amp;6=thirteen (talk) 19:34, 5 December 2010 (UTC) Stan

Addition of "Rare dog breeds" cat to BMD article
Hi there, I noticed you had re-added the rare dog breeds category to the Bernese Mountain Dog article and I'm curious as to your rationale. I had originally removed it because its AKC ranking is 39, putting it on par with Collies, Miniature Pinschers, Bichon Frise(s?), and Viszlak. As far as I know -- could be wrong -- the breed is even more popular in Europe; not sure about other regions. &mdash; anndelion  ( talk ) 02:31, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Anndrelion, I would confess that I don't know where the cutoff from 'rare' to 'common' is. I don't actually see a lot of Berners, but that is completely anecdotal, idiosyncratic and may be due to where I happen to be.  I don't have a strong position on this.  I would think that ranking is one tool, but actual numbers of registrations might be a more useful way of thinking about this.  The numbers of dogs, I would guess, drop off sharply after the first 25 breeds.  Hope that explains what I did and why.  If there is a policy somewhere, of an accepted definiton, that might inform what we want to do.   7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 02:38, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * See Rare breed (dog)  7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 02:43, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Moving this to Bernese mountain dog.  7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 02:49, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Just removed the two duplicate posts from the previous thread. Anyways, what you're saying makes sense to me. I just did a quick search to see if the AKC had published any raw numbers, but it seems as though you'd need a Gazette subscription to view this information... no lo tengo. I never really considered drop-offs -- I imagine there is some of that, but I'd venture to guess it happens after maybe the first three or four breeds. Too bad the AKC doesn't publish this data themselves.


 * There was a little discussion at Category talk:Rare dog breeds (well, if discussion = me replying to an old message...) I still can't believe the Leonberger ranks at #33 -- seems really counterintuitive and odd to me, but I suppose the numbers don't lie. &mdash; anndelion  ( talk ) 04:04, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 2006 registration stats for AKC. There were 3714 Bernese Mountain Dogs registered that year. UK Kennel Club stats shows 600-700 registered per year. It's probably easier to just see if reliable sources describe a breed as rare. --Dodo bird (talk) 18:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Leonbergers are really few and far between in the U.S. I don't know about the U.K. for sure, and I think they are more common in parts of the rest of Europe. This points up part of the problem. AS the rare breed (dog) article says, rarity can be a local phenomenon. After Laborador Retriever, Poodle, German Shepherd, Cocker spaniel, etc., you've got most of the recognized pedigreed dog population. It would be good to have real data. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 13:58, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the stats, Dodo bird. Not surprisingly, Labs have more than twice the registrations of any other breed. Roughly 50% of breeds had less than 1,000 registered in 2006. Not sure I can see any real drop-off beyond the Lab, though. I think the policy of "reliable source describes as rare" sounds reasonable and realistic. &mdash; anndelion  ( talk ) 18:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Explanation for removal of sourced statement
The following statement is in the History section of the article: "In Harrisburg, generals used the dogs as war tools but the dogs declined in number through the Civil War."

I have some real doubts about the accuracy of this and have removed it, even though it is evidently sourced to The International Encyclopedia of Dogs. Think about it: the first BMD arrived in the United States around 1926, according to The New Bernese Mountain Dog by Sharon Chestnutt-Smith (1995) and The Complete Bernese Mountain Dog by Jude Simonds (1989). (Louise Harper's 2004 book, published by Kennel Club Books, takes swaths of info from the one by Simonds so naturally it says the same.) This is also corroborated by the BMDCA's breed timeline. I've seen at least one date inaccuracy in these books and the timeline -- Conrad Gessner wrote of large dogs in 1563, not 1523 -- but overall it's a decent source to double-check facts.

Now, if the dogs weren't in America during the Civil War, why would they have been used in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania? Seems strange that only this book has picked up on it (to my knowledge), right? "Verifiability not truth" should not be used as a crutch to keep obviously faulty info in the article. Even if you disagree, please don't add it back before trying to discuss here. Also, after reviewing the above discussion and statistics I've removed the rare breed cat -- unless Collies, Viszlak, St. Bernards, et al get it too, I don't think anecdotes are the best way to decide. Funnily enough, I've actually come across several at my local dog park (near St. Paul, MN) -- once, two others at the same time with unconnected owners! Anna talk 02:50, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Berner Sennenhund linguistics
I note the recent edit that changed the phrase Swiss German to German. I suppose it could have been Swiss Standard German, too. I am not a linguistic expert, and the linguistic politics of a multicultural and multilingual Switzerland are something that I know little about. I am not taking a position on this, but think there is a problem in the article that deserves some thought and consideration. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 16:07, 2 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the change is justified. In Swiss German, the dog's name would be something like Bärner Sennehund. Either German language or Swiss Standard German are correct. I think the former is preferrable because it is easier. -- mach 🙈🙉🙊 19:44, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
 * "Bèèrner Sännehund" in my dialect. It wasn't Swiss German. ;-) But nobody in Switzerland would speak about "Swiss Standard German" in this context(SSG is the language that e.g. the daily news are read in on SF DRS). It's written, and we write in Standard German ("Schriftdeutsch" for the Swiss), and if it's Swiss Standard German or German Standard German matters no more than the question whether "Irish Wolfhound" is Irish English, British English, or American English. So I'd just stick to "German language|German" the way it stands now. Perfectly fine edit. Trigaranus (talk) 17:29, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

User box Bernese Mountain Dog
Just created this. Someone might want to use it on their userpage or talk page

<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 21:48, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Famous Owners
This section is extremely puerile. How relevant is it if an actor or political strategist owns or owned a dog of this breed? I have not seen a "famous owners" section on most if not all other dog breed pages on Wikipedia. I'd recommend their deletion in addition to this one's if they exist. 173.29.247.210 (talk) 00:25, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Relegated that to a footnote. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 00:43, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I know that I'm tardy to this lovely party (thanks, rhinovirus), but at WikiProject Dogs/Dog breeds task force, it is suggested to include "Celebrities who own (breedname)". ö   Brambleberry  _ meow _ watch me in action 22:18, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Miscellaneous
I got your message. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 15:30, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Will you help voting? Hafspajen (talk) 16:00, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, haven't been following this. Are we voting on pictures? Or something else?  I vote for "Trooper" (my late Berner) but we don't have a picture of him. He was a wonderful dog, although not the handsomest Bernese I ever saw. Sigh. {:>{)> Just kidding.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 16:12, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

WEll, yes. I you vote for any picture, put a 7 beside the picture. Phil thought that we could illustrate this article better. We did this before at the Dalmatian (dog), and it worked out nicely. Choose the ones you think represent the breed best, and are also good quality pics... Hafspajen (talk) 16:15, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Picture in article
We should try to illustrate this article with the best pictures available. Put all pictures that are in the article here and some more. Hafspajen (talk) 13:47, 20 September 2014 (UTC) We need to chose a good lead picture and some pictures that show different points about the breed.

same thing as at Talk:Dalmatian (dog), as Phil suggested. Let's try to chose 1 good lead pic, about 5 really good pictures +- 2 reserves. We chose four-five each, and use the ones that has most votes. Put a S, C, 7 or F on each four you chose. Hafspajen (talk) 14:14, 20 September 2014 (UTC) 7&6=thirteen join in. Why can't I ping 7&6=thirteen??? Hafspajen (talk) 15:19, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

UH, what's with this page? Hafspajen (talk) 15:32, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Crisco, please can you fix the Othello image (the one here is a free use only poster so I don't think should be on this page at all?). The Commons image does look quite nice!  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  14:21, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
 * ? Hafspajen (talk) 19:19, 20 September 2014 (UTC)


 * , the problem is so many are just not very good. Lost in the woods, or the grass or wherever Berner is hiking! Resolution on some is blurry. No really good one for lead. The dogs that are standing are cluttered with the legs of people. The one that is lost to an Othello the drama poster, if repaired, would be promising, I agree.  <b style="color:#595454">Fylbecatulous</b> <b style="color:#DB7093">talk</b> 02:16, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Gaily following in Fylbecautious' footsteps by the look of it! To be honest, I quite like the Commons Othello file and it might be okay as the info box image if it can be sorted out? At least the dog has it's tail extended in that one.   SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  16:41, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, Oothello should be lead, but where is he? Hafspajen (talk) 19:39, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I've moved the local page. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:31, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, now that we have Othello the dog, I have placed my preference for this image as lead. Of these it is the best with no clutter and a good stance and happy healthy look. <b style="color:#595454">Fylbecatulous</b> <b style="color:#DB7093">talk</b> 02:33, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree. Hafspajen (talk) 15:31, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * WEll, I am just waiting a little for additional ideas and comments about theses... and add them later on. Hafspajen (talk) 11:50, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

.'Useed all except the Jimmy Dürbächler - because on that one the coat looks grayis not black. Hafspajen (talk) 13:06, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * , Perfect. Oh my goodness. The article looks great. Our lead and all the dogs are top quality and happy dogs. I ended up voting for seven by the time we picked the lead and alternates.. I am very happy with the choices now in the article. I will just delete little Jimmy and he can live happily in the commons gallery. Thanks for decorating.  <b style="color:#595454">Fylbecatulous</b> <b style="color:#DB7093">talk</b> 14:22, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Nice pics. Very typey for the breed.  Might be good to have one identified as a female (bitch), as males (particularly unneutered) tend to be somewhat blockier.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:27, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

wrong article name
Why is the article names Bernese Mountain Dog if the true name is Berner Sennenhund

it's no secret that these dogs originate in Switzerland and in Switzerland, the language used, isn't english, and as such they do not refer to the dog as "Bernese Mountain dog"

the rest of Europe, also refers to it as Berner Sennenhund, so why the switch??

should be "Berner Sennenhund, aka Bernese Mountain Dog, aka Bouvier Bernois..."

not the other way around. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.57.32.250 (talk) 17:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC).
 * It's really because, to be honest, no one's really ever heard that name. I hadn't. I think since it's the mass culture name, we should keep it up. Objections? KC109 (talk) 19:46, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree strongly with KC109. Additionally this is the English-language wikipedia. Non-English language names should only be used when they are irreplacable, or the English versions are non-standard, slang or canon. I wouldn't go replacing the article "meat" with "fleisch" just because that's what Europeans call it, since that's not what it's called in English. - Shipton 12.199.244.100 (talk) 13:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Would a redirect page be appropriate???Dolotta (talk) 13:59, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
 * As someone who is familiar with the breed (I owned one, a fabulous dog), I am well familiar with the name Berner Sennenhund. I agree that the page should use the current Bernese Mountain Dog, but also agree that a redirect wouldn't hurt.  And it already exists.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:53, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2017
Ralphie is a Bernese Mountain Dog who tells his own stories in the book Ralphie's Account of Planet Earth. Stephenparato (talk) 01:52, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Per WP:IPCV, we need a third-party reliable source as a means of establishing that this book is considered significant with regards to Bernese Mountain Dogs. DonIago (talk) 13:48, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20030808205022/http://www.nzkc.org.nz/br615.html to http://www.nzkc.org.nz/br615.html
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Indescriminate tag
, regarding the : the list of "notable" dogs appears indiscriminate, lacking "context with explanations"; "merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia." In what context are any of the examples given? Does it matter that the dogs are Bernese? Any of them could have been any other breed; their breed is irrelevant in the context of the article. Bright☀ 10:13, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Bright, it occurred to me that that might be why you were tagging it, though I wasn't sure. If it had been a major issue for me I would have pinged you or asked here myself. We're good. :) DonIago (talk) 12:54, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

nose - always black
Hello, I just added a note about the Berner nose is always black. Please let me know what you think. I'm a student editor so any feedback is appreciated and helpful. Thank you SoldBuyChristina (talk) 15:29, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I also added that they are considered a dry-mouthed breed, which I read on the AKC website. Let me know if this is relevant to the article. There was no page about what exactly that means so I added a red link to "dry-mouthed." Thank you, SoldBuyChristina (talk) 15:43, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by ShawnBoom (talk • contribs) 03:40, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2020 and 7 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ShawnBoom.

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