Talk:Berta A. Dreyfus Intermediate School 49

Comment
It looks much better now! :] ---Marcus- 22:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Please stop with the vandalism on this page. Only add info that is belongs here. Tut74749 01:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Quiet Game
A boy was injured on October 3, 2007 while playing the an extreme version of the quiet game. His spleen had to be removed. It happened at Berta A. Dreyfus Intermediate School 49. Should it be mentioned in this article? RuneWiki     777 18:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

You may add it if you have some kind of source. It may be mentionable. Tut74749 (talk) 01:35, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Article or no-article?
This article (created in 2007) was made into a redirect to New York City Department of Education, saying "redirect non-notable middle school to school district site per WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES", in 2014 and 2019.

WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES, in itself, is not a significant argument for deletion.

Changing a redirect into an article, in itself, is not grounds for changing the article back into a redirect.

(If someone brings the article comes, consider discarding some of the more trivial details...)

See also discussions:
 * Schools (links)
 * WikiProject Schools (general concept for school pages)
 * Notability (high schools) (essay on expectations)
 * Schools/Arguments (essay: we'll never agree whether to keep or wipe out; how not to debate) -A876 (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks, A876. Though improvement is needed and welcome, my current version of the article easily satisfies the controlling Notability standards of WP:GNG and WP:ORG and WP:NGEO — far exceeding the other 6 articles in Category:Public middle schools in Staten Island, none of which have ever been re-directed on such a pretext. I've restored this article accordingly, and I strongly object to Wikipedians' discriminatory treatment of this particular school for reasons that I can only speculate. —173.68.139.31 (talk) 22:04, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * This school has had some media coverage it is true. There does not appear to be enough to outweigh general sense that middle schools (Intermediate Schools) are not notable. I have thus restored the redirect. Best wishes, Barkeep49 (talk) 22:28, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

I reported the reversions of this article to a redirect. I didn't strongly take a side. I have formed no opinion on its actual notability or non-notability.

I was [subtly] objecting to its then-most-recent reversion to a redirect, done in a cluster of 4 reversions to redirects (of 4 unrelated articles, including one that I had just changed from a redirect) by an editor who does hundreds of edits per day, sometimes 5 edits recorded in the same minute.

I don't know what triggered the attention to the article(s). Whenever someone changes any article from a redirect to content, the edit gets tagged with "Removed redirect" and possibly "Undo". Some editors browse Recent changes looking for "bad" edits to correct. Maybe changes from redirects are candidates for "bad" work. Also, some editors watch specific pages and undo almost any changes there.

It seems harsh to nullify content, screaming "non-notable", rather than tolerate it (and optionally warn), if not try to help it (i.e., look for notability and paste it in or explain that it is lacking). (For example, lack of references is not grounds for speedy deletion.) It seems unproductive to keep replacing content with a redirect – is the subject sufficiently non-notable to merit action? Or are we seeing deletionism?

My warning to people restoring content was to "edit defensively" - the restored content could be hastily beaten down again, unless you clear the bar in the first edits, given that its non-notability is prosecuted zealously.

All high schools can be notable (an essay): "Elementary and middle schools do not merit their own article unless they have an exceptional claim to notability. These should be examined on a case-by-case basis and merged into an article on the town or school district." (Kinda hard for NYC Schools - it would need sub-article(s) for list(s) of schools.) (Did anyone who replaced the content with a redirect make sure that some part of the content was "merged" into such article?)

Notability (schools) (a failed proposal, 2009): "In general, ... degree-awarding institutions and senior secondary schools are considered notable. 'Senior secondary schools' exclude middle schools...." "For elementary (primary) and middle schools, reliable secondary sources are usually too limited [to establish] notability. An exception is made for schools having a specific, notable distinction or status (e.g., the Blue Ribbon Schools Program in the U.S. ...."

WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES (observations, not policy): "Most independently accredited degree-awarding institutions and high schools have historically been kept..." "Most elementary (primary) and middle schools that don't source a clear claim to notability usually get merged or redirected [after deletion discussions]. Schools that don't meet the standard typically get merged or redirected to the school district authority that operates them ... rather than being completely removed from the encyclopedia. 'Redirect' as an alternative to deletion is anchored in policy." February 2017 RFC summary cited there: "Secondary schools are not presumed to be notable simply because they exist." (... leaving even articles on high schools eligible for outright deletion deletion of content and reduction to a redirect.)

Notability (organizations and companies) (policy): "All universities, colleges and schools, including high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must satisfy either this guideline (WP:ORG) or the general notability guideline, or both. ..."

Maybe Category:Public middle schools in Staten Island is named dishonestly, implying that every middle school is notable. Maybe it should be renamed Category:NOTABLE public middle schools in Staten Island (an almost-oxymoron). Or some other mechanism to remind editors of such. It can't be renamed "Category:Blue Ribbon Middle Schools in (or on?) Staten Island", because that would exclude schools that are famous or infamous for other reasons. -A876 (talk) 20:13, 15 February 2019 (UTC)