Talk:Bessie Braddock

Trivia
"Braddock was in part the inspiration for the character Hyacinth Bucket in the BBC TV series "Keeping Up Appearances"."

Any reference for this? Seems extremely unlikely to me, from the little I remember of Bessie.

The link to the Liverpool Pictorial doesn't work, and the one to the BBC points to something totally unconnected. 78.147.148.226 (talk) 18:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Churchill Insults
Is there any better source for disputing the famous Churchill exchange than that Daily Mail article, which itself gives no source for its statement that it never happened? By contrast, Richard Langworth at the Churchill Centre dates it to 1946, and says he heard the story directly from a bodyguard who overheard it, whom he names. Though he does point out it's a reworking of a W.C.Fields line. http://www.winstonchurchill.org/support/the-churchill-centre/publications/chartwell-bulletin/2011/31-jan/1052-drunk-and-ugly-the-rumor-mill (Marcus Hamilton (talk) 23:48, 21 July 2011 (UTC))


 * Indeed, this source is more credible than the sources we have claiming it never happened. I've reworded the article to state that the exchange is "disputed" rather than "erroneous". If somebody wants to find some better sources that really go into what likely happened, this comment could be expanded to a full section. It would need to cite specific opinions by name. Absent that, it's wrong to claim that it's erroneous. Gerweck (talk) 22:41, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The abovementioned link is dead, and I removed it. If you find any other credible sources, please add references. さえぼー (talk) 08:42, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I notice this page suggests Lady Astor may have been the object of Churchill's comments but I think this is confused with an actual exchange when Astor said if Churchill was her husband she would poison his coffee to which Churchill replied "If I were your husband I would drink it!" The conversation was recorded to have taken place not in Parliament but at a house party when Churchill was already an MP but Astor yet to become an MP. In 1946 (year of the confrontation with Braddock) Astor had retired from Parliament at the 1945 General Election. Astor was into middle life an attractive woman that Churchill would not have easily accused of ugliness, in contrast to Braddock.Cloptonson (talk) 18:37, 17 October 2015 (UTC)


 * If the exchange had been said in the context of a parliamentary debate, would it not have been reported in Hansard?Cloptonson (talk) 21:54, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Heaviest Woman MP?
Braddock by own admission weighed 15 stone, according to ODNB, which was an unusually large weight in her lifetime, making her contender for heaviest woman MP (equivalent to her heavier male counterpart Cyril Smith). Were any other women MPs known to be heavier?Cloptonson (talk) 18:49, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Unless you have a source which shows she was known for being the heaviest, then you are engaged in original research which is not appropriate. -- ℕ  ℱ  19:15, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * It is also trivial and demeaning. Brianboulton (talk) 22:20, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Article development
I have for some time been researching Bessie's career, with a view to upgrading the article to the standards of other near-contemporary women politicians, e.g. Ellen Wilkinson and Margaret Bondfield. Thus, the article will shortly be expanded considerably, on the basis of the best available sources. It really was  a colourful career, and I think she deserves much more than an over-concentration on   anecdotes and speculations about her weight. As to the Churchill story, it remains highly dubious. Although journalists constantly cite it as fact, most serious historians have long considered it a fiction. There is no possibility of establishing definitively whether it is true or not, so it must remain  "disputed", and should be mentioned in the context of her considerable career, not treated as some high point. Likewise, the trivial business of her supposed parliamentary "jig" needs to be put into perspective. Brianboulton (talk) 22:20, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Having not read this page since October, I am impressed to see it so well fleshed out (so to speak, but I am referring to the text here). A vast improvement on what I previously saw.Cloptonson (talk) 22:01, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Cofiwch Dryweryn
The "slogan" cited here as "Cofia Tryweryn" is actually "Cofiwch Dryweryn" in real Welsh. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 21:31, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Reference by first name?
There are many references where the article subject is referenced by her first name, Bessie. Doesn't Wikipedia's formal style call for reference by last name, where unambiguous?

Regards

HandsomeFella (talk) 09:23, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The policy is WP:SURNAME. There is only a small number of cases in the article where Bessie is needed to distinguish her from her husband, the rest should be Braddock. Thanks. Spicemix (talk) 10:03, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Not so. See MOS:SAMESURNAME. - The Bounder (talk) 08:29, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Liverpool elections
Some of the election material here on Liverpool council elections doesn't match the results in the Liverpool City Council elections articles - for instance, the article for Liverpool City Council election, 1929 refers to Jack Braddock losing in Fairfield, not winning in Everton. I've revised only the district as it seems appropriate, but could someone look into this? MisfitToys (talk) 21:09, 8 March 2017 (UTC)