Talk:Best Friends Forever (South Park)

Darth
I think the "Minion of Satan" was supposed to be a charicature of Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine of Star Wars. Anyone else have any informationon that? --Tom S.

I don't know who thought he was Palpatine, but it is clearly Grima Wormtongue. Also, the comment that the Lord of The Rings comment made by the angel is a joke about computer graphics? How? Perhaps it commenting on the entire heavenly battle being a parody of the final battle in The Return of the King? I'm going to remove the comments without reference until someone can justify them; it seems like simple conjecture to me.--The Grza 04:50, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


 * There is a computer graphics joke here, namely the fact that we don't actually get to see the epic final battle directly, which is described as many times bigger than the one in LOTR.  It's obviously a self-conscious reference to the enormous difference in production budgets and sophistication of the animation and/or computer graphics. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 00:15, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I understand that the final battle being removed was a joke, but connect it to computer graphics for me. The show simply doesn't show it but never mentions or even references computer graphics as the basis for the joke, and there is never any mention or reference to difference in production budgets and sophistication similarly as the basis for the joke. Please provide some actual evidence besides a personal unsubstantiated view.--The Grza 12:11, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Wormy? Palpy?
Are you 100% sure that "Kevin" was Wormtongue and was not at all influenced by Palpatine? When researching on the internet, it seems that half the viewers say Wormtongue and the other half say Palpatine/Emperor. Has there been a definitive statement by Trey or Matt? Sometimes they use more than one source/movie/idea for anything on the show. It is obvious that there is at least a small Star Wars influence on this episode (when the angel says "There is another..." and when Satan destroyed Kevin in a Force-lightning-esque attack, even though it did come from his eyes). Just food for thought. In my opinion, he he sounds like Wormtongue but looks like the Emperor (and has a Darth Sidious like scheming method). I'd love to hear something official from the creators. This one's bugging me! :)


 * I don't know who this wormy guy is, but I do recognize Palpie as I saw him: He has a black robe, demonic influence over the republicans, and has a severely wrinkled face. For sure, it's Emperor Palpatine for real. --Seishirou Sakurazuka 01:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I can't seem to find how to open another 'topic' (first time I'm doing this) But I want to point out that when discussing the battle plan statutues of 'God' can be seen as in the episode where God appeared on Christmas as a a really ugly thing. Just thought it was funny to make another referal to that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.198.168.67 (talk) 09:30, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Anti-climactic ending?
Does anyone have references for the (very biased) "anti-climactic" claim in the Ending section? I think it would be better to remove it. --ElTchanggo 01:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. "as the buildup had the potential to be one of South Park's most memorable moments" I doubt one of South Park's most memorable moments would have been a battle. The memorable aspect with always be its contraversial nature, with this episode and all the others. If its not removed, I at least vote for the above line to be changed. ObsidianOps 21:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I've removed it, I can't see any reason for keeping it. It's all original research and uses classic weasel words like 'many fans...'.  Anyone's welcome to revert if they can find a suitable reference, of course.  Nuge talk 23:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Comparisons (and contrasts) between this episode and Surf Ninjas?
I remember watching Surf Ninjas (starring two main leads and other somewhat famous but struggling actors Leslie Nielsen and Rob Schneider) when I was a little kid, but most likely forgot the parts. Recently, I read over info and realized that, like many older New Line Cinema productions (and/or distributions) despite distributed hits over recent years such as The Lord of the Rings (film) trilogy and Wedding Crashers, this is critically and commercially panned. As for this episode, I saw only the ending, not the rest (unless I read the summary and/or transcript). Here are some possible comparisons:

This Episode   -    Surf Ninjas

PlayStation Portable --- Sega Game Gear Angels    -     Native (or another ethnic group) Islanders Satan   -     Some bad guy who wanted to take over an island Satan's army    -    Bad guy's army Hell-and-heaven's battle    -     Battle between invaders and natives Kenny      -       The lead kid who turned to be a lost prince and liked using Game Gear

There were lots of differences below:

While Kenny played the (supposedly) portable game to control the armies, (I think) the kid used Game Gear on his brother (or friend) for kung-fu martial fights and a fight against the main bad guy.

I'll go for more. Agree with the info above? Your comments, please. --69.227.173.21 20:02, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Is that...
Is the second last note in "Other Notables" Vandalism? Or is it justbadly worded, cause I can't make sense of it. JQF 03:08, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Ender's Game spoiler
Should we be spoiling the ending of Ender's Game in a South Park episode article?
 * My thoughts, considering that's my favorite book of all time, are mixed. I'd rather it not be spoiled, but on the other hand it's a relevant comment.  Also, Ender's Game's ending is predictable, but guessing or knowing it ahead of time doesn't spoil the effect of the book.  True, being surprised greatly enhances the effect, but the psychological (and more important aspect) of the book is just as powerful.  Leave the comment, I say. Professor Chaos 04:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Diablo? WoW?
I always thought Heaven vs. Hell was a strategy game. By no stretch of the imagination do you lead armies in Diablo or World of Warcraft. SAlpsu 23:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The implied lvl60 cap, the Pure Good vs. Pure Evil scenario and the popularity makes HoH similiar to WoW (and Diablo, to some extent). Is there even a (somewhat well-known) Heaven vs. Hell-type strategy game? --20:02, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Kevin Martin
Can anyone confirm the information about Kevin Martin? "As the adviser dies, he morphs for a few brief frames into a bespectacled character strongly reminiscent of FCC chairman Kevin Martin." I can not see it in my copy of an episode. Is it a joke? Lantios 14:17, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Death Stretch
Is this the first episode that actually deals with Kenny after his death? Because this seems to be the only one that stretches his death out. 24.118.156.127 02:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Unless you count Bigger Longer and Uncut, I think it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.42.139 (talk) 19:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

BFF
If this is the source of the abbreviation BFF, or whatever -- the article should say so.-69.87.200.99 20:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not. The abbreviation BFF was around long before this episode. Captain Infinity 22:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Who or what are the BFFs the episode was riffing on? Is there actually a similar organisation in the USA? Maikel (talk) 15:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * BFF stands for best friends forever. It's only an Internet term. The Matyr (converse with the Matyr) 23:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

BFF- the necklace
The BFF necklaces are considered as real as a legal document. Does this happen for real? Stat-ist-ikk (talk) 22:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

That's a joke, son. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.49.215.230 (talk) 00:55, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

goofs
In this episode, St. Peter is seen as a human at the gates of Heaven. However, in the later episode Fantastic Easter Special it is revealed that St. Peter was actually a rabbit. this should be removed. south park does not rely on continuity between episodes, save for major characters. (such as mr garrisons sex change)

Satan's Army
I belive the first scene of satan's army, where they put on their armor and Satan rallies them is an obvious reference to LOTR: The fellowship of the ring, in the scene where Saruman's army is assembled. One of Satan's minions are given a sword and cries a loud roar, just like in the movies. Satan's and Saruman's speaches are also very similar. Furthermore, Satan views his army through a magic ball, like the one Saruman had. Does anyone else notice this? My English is awful, as I am Norwegian and 17 years old, so I'll leave it to someone else to enter it in the article. :)

What about the (unmentioned) connecting point with the plot of "Dogma"?
In Dogma (film), God is held incapacitated by keeping her incarnation in comatose state, so that she cannot return to heaven and back in command. Resolution is achieved by letting him (the avatar) die.

Fair use rationale for Image:904 dollar kenny.jpg
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BetacommandBot 16:52, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

reminiscent of second Planet of the Apes?
When they hail the holy PSP, it seems reminiscent of the hailing done of the atom bomb in the second Planet of the Apes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TCO (talk • contribs) 23:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Cultural References and Original Research
Cite the following;


 * Lord of the Rings references in the episode include: the orb used by Satan, a reference to the palantír held by Saruman; the gates of Heaven being deliberately designed to look like Minas Tirith; Satan's minions and the way they don their armor are reminiscent of the Orcs and Uruk-hai from the movies; and the council of the Angels is also a reference to The Lord of the Rings's Council of Elrond. Also, during his description of the battle, Archangel Michael comments that the battle is "ten times bigger" than the one in the last Lord of the Rings movie, referring to the CGI battles in the film trilogy. The armies of Heaven and Hell are clearly modeled after those in the final battle in the series. One shot of the demon army approaching is, in layout, exactly the same shot as that of the orc armies marching in the opening scenes of The Fellowship of the Ring.
 * The references to Keanu Reeves throughout the episode are based on Reeves' regular appearances as savior type characters, upon whom the triumph of good over evil depends, in films like The Matrix and Constantine.
 * This is the second and final time Kenny is killed in this season. The first was in the episode that aired right before this, Wing. He wouldn't die again until two seasons later in the final episode of season 11 - "The List"
 * Heaven recruiting its ultimate hero through a video game is a reference to the film The Last Starfighter, wherein a young man is chosen to defend an alien race based on his skills at an arcade game the aliens placed on earth to test humans.

And we'll leave it back in the article. Alastairward (talk) 13:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Ender's Game Dubious
I find the reference to Ender's Game to be coincidental. The game was secretly a test to find kenny, an obvious reference to The Last Starfighter. But Kenny doesn't save the world under the "guise" of a game; the situation is explained to him, that the game controller would give orders to the forces. I recall no phrases or images in the episode that suggest a relationship to Ender's Game. Taking South Park Seriously is used as a reference for the relation, but a Google Book search does not find any instances of the words "ender's", "enders", "starfighter", or "star fighter" in the book. -Verdatum (talk) 23:30, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I double checked the reference and scrubbed it, it doesn't support the material. Alastairward (talk) 12:51, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, as I have both seen this episode and read "Ender's Game" I see hardly anything in common between the two. still "Ender's Game" is referenced in the main article. I will now spoil a bit about the plot of "Ender's Game", be warned. Kenny and Andrew (main character from the book, Ender's actual name) have in common that both are young boys and both play a battle simulation of sorts in a console of sorts. Also Kenny and Andrew finally fight an epic battle, though Kenny knows what is going on, Andrew is only told after winning the last battle against the "bugs". Andrews however lives through intense training and hardship at a military academy, there is that special weapon that detatches molecules, there is the battle training in zero gravity, there are personal issues that make Andrew tough. I support the theory that the similarities are coincidental and unless the creators themselfs claim that the plot is based on the Orson Scott Card novel, their is not enough material to justify the reference to the book --92.225.6.206 (talk) 14:03, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

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