Talk:Beta Theta Pi

2006 comment on early version
this is the shittiest wikipedia page ever Every single other wiki entry on fraternities and sororities contains all of the same types of information. If you are going to delete the history and other bits of information that provide people with answers about what Beta Theta Pi is then you need to do so for every other greek organization on this board. The information in this entry is simply information about the history and background of this organization. Just like just about every other entry on wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rrude (talk • contribs) 15:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you think that putting copyrighted in quotes makes it less a serious legal offense to plagiarize someone else's material you are wrong. What I did was to remove a threat to the legal standing of the Wikimedia Foundation as you seem to have an insistence on trying to host and display illegally copied material on our servers. The information in this entry is simply copyrighted information about the history and background of this organization. If you care so strongly about having it included, which for the record I think should happen as it is a notable organization, then you must rewrite it in your own words and not violate the expressly stated (at the bottom of the website you copy&pasted from) copyright of the Beta Theta Pi Fraternity. Aside from the relevant laws regarding copyright in the State of Florida, United States, and whichever jurisdiction you happen to be editing from, it is also a violation of Wikipedia policy found at Copyrights. —WAvegetarian&bull;(talk) 19:46, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Arturo Ritti's vandalism of various articles
I have moved this section to my own user page. Nova SS 17:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Lay/Skilling Controversy
Can we just agree to put them under an "infamous" category and use my revision? I have no problem separating them out and explaining (briefly) what they did, but 1) assigning various adjectives like "fraudster" and the like is not "encycopaedic", 2) labelling them as "Beta Criminals" is unfair (which is what the section name "Criminals" does, though their actions have nothing to do with the fraternity), and 3) it would seem more appropriate to set them aside in their own category because they're now more famous for their notoriety than being famous Betas in "Business."

Also, so we're all clear, I am a Beta and I don't see this as a cheerleading page; I also believe this is supposed to be as NPOV as possible. Age or whatever, the first revision was entirely unacceptable by Wikipedia standards, and the removal of the section entirely was equally unacceptable. We're adults here. Let's get over this and make the page better and, most importantly at this stage, NPOV'd.

By the way, could you both get user names please? I hate "anonymous" revisions. Pat 19:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

There is a convicted sex offender in the list of prominent Betas along with a couple of alcoholics, people who have been convicted of speeding and a couple of homosexuals (not that there is anything wrong with that). The point is is that those individuals are not "described" by those things as is trying to be done to Skilling and Lay. The criminal conduct should be addressed on their pages but not here. It has nothing to do with explaining Beta Theta Pi. Rrude 20:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * So that everyone can take a breather, DO NOT remove the "Infamous" section. It's an entirely appropriate section, and if it is removed, this revert war will only grow. Embrace the fact that they're convicted, let it be noted, and move on. Otherwise, this is going to become an outright-vandalized page, and we don't need that. Sheath your swords, and if you have discussion on this matter, put it here.-- Pat 07:03, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Pat, do you know how to request mediation on this issue? I'm fairly new to all this and just don't see that this is going to be resolved without some help. This page is being threatened with vandalization and that is simply not necessary. It appears that someone has a personal issue with these two individuals and is simply using wikipedia and all the pages associated with these two as his personal playground. The bottom line is what is appropriate information on a page and what isn't. By all means the pages devoted solely to Skillings and Lay should have all the information on it. But simply an association with an organization or a school many, many years ago should have little to do with the page. Thoughts??? Rrude 15:04, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Just as an FYI, this Arturo Ritti guy (the one who is on an Enron agenda and edits with 80.4.x.x. IPs) is repeatedly vandalizing the Southern Methodist University home page with his invectives or commentaries about Jeffrey Skilling. I have allowed him to use the descriptions "convicted felon" and "former" on Skilling, and I am allowing him to move Skilling to an "Other" sub-section. However, I am not allowing him to take it further because he clearly has an agenda and is being highly POV. I am not allowing him to add "disgraced" because it repeats what us already implied by the combination of "former" and "convicted felon". I am also not allowing him to add a sub-section of notable alumni called "Infamous" because the sections are about one's profession, not one's place in life. Nova SS 14:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Can anything be done to get him to stop vandalizing the site while on this personal and pointless crusade? Rrude 21:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. Just make sure multiple authors are watching, and revert him every time. Nova SS 22:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply! When worse comes to worst, users can request that a page be protected. We requested semi-protection here because the problem was with an unregistered user. Full protection disables all edits to the page. Hope this helps! Pat 04:22, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thus far it appears he is using the following IPs:
 * 80.41.127.153
 * 80.41.113.114
 * 208.251.56.210
 * All of this is made clear by his repeated declaring that one must call him on the phone to get him to stop and all three accounts put forth the same number to call. IrishGuy 22:52, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think this "Pat" guy has the best motives/intentions. For good or for bad, Beta Theta Pi ended up with two notorious criminals in its ranks.  But this is just the law of averages working - probably every fraternity has swindlers in its honor roll.  The question here is, why doesn't anybody want to point it out.  Probably because this is a cheerleading page, controlled by Betas.  But Pat didn't seem too fazed by it.  Again, I have no problem with discussing this with anybody.  But nobody seems to either have the balls or the nickel so far.  So, until then, let the games continue. Betathetapi545
 * User:Betathetapi545 is a serial vandal. (See User:Novasource for more info). His vandalism should be reverted immediately. He is not a member of Beta Theta Pi despite what his username implies. He thrives on making changes here to push his own point of view and agenda.

Other debates
I think it would be nice that next to the names of the Famous Betas is the field in which they gained noteriety. Right now, they're just names.
 * I agree,let's work on it JMM tau 1270
 * I have made several changes. Tried to segregate famous brothers into their fields of expertise. Added a few and deleted a couple who I had never heard of. Would recommend that all future additions to Famous Betas include name, school and graduation year, and exact accomplishment so there is no question as to qualification and it is verifiable. Also changed the "motto" to our beloved _kai_. Added "of ever honored memory" to the list of founders. I have studied Beta Lore for 30 years and served as a Lore Examiner to several Indiana chapters. __kai__Jon Myers, Wabash 1981, Tau Chapter 1270. j-myers@earthlink.net
 * gentlemen,


 * Dissent is a valuable component of open discourse. The section on dissent to the Men of Principle initiative has been toned down, but I think it is important that it is there, to counterbalance the extensive endorsement that previous authors have written. if you have a problem with it, contact me and let's talk.  _kai_  Chris Petelle, Cornell, '02.

Beta secrets
Should we post stuff like what kai means and what the motto is etc? i dont see why not. i know them and they are no big deal.
 * I don't think that's appropriate. The secrets are in large part what make a fraternity; catalouging those is a dangerous precedent for Wikipedia set. Pat 03:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I've changed the motto twice now to reflect "kai" instead of "Cooperation Makes Strength", which was the motto of Miami's Union Literary Society. Changes submitted more for accuracy than for secrecy matters. User:chasroyal 08:32, 08 Aug 2006 (UTC)
 * The answers to questions that begin with "Should we post stuff like..." are often clearly answered in wikipedia's policies and guidelines. In this case, it should be clear that "secrets" are not verifiable. If you can cite your sources, and the sources are good, then you could add the "secrets" and they shouldn't be reverted or deleted. Good luck with that.
 * I highly doubt you'll find any official fraternity statement written in any published source that exposes any "secrets" for any fraternity. They wouldn't be very secret, then; would they?
 * Also, keep in mind that wikipedia is not a home for original research. That is, "I know blank" does not qualify as a source to add blank to the wikipedia. You may also want to check the WikiProject:Fraternities and Sororities to see if there are any guidlines set up there.&#8201;—&#8201;gogobera (talk) 19:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Broken Lizard
Is it confirmed anywhere that all five members of Broken Lizard (Jay Chandrasekhar, Kevin Heffernan, Steve Lemme, Paul Soter, Erik Stolhanske) are in Beta Theta Pi? This interview says that only four of the actors are fraternity members, but this article says that all five are. Kevin Heffernan (comedian) does not mention the fraternity. Is there anyone who can provide clarification on the situation? Olessi 07:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe they were all members of the Colgate University Beta Theta Pi chapter. I cannot personally verify that information, but among current university undergraduate members of Beta, it is accepted as common knowledge. ShawnHorton 21:47, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * All were students at Colgate University. Jay Chandrasekhar, Kevin Heffernan, Steve Lemme, and Erik Stolhanske are members of Beta Theta Pi. Paul Soter is a member of Theta Chi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ColgateUHockey (talk • contribs) 13:40, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Chapter Houses: Notability, Speedy Deletion, and Reliable Sources
Several articles that were speedy deletion candidates have been redirected here, as well as several large, well-layed out articles that looked good but still made no claim to notability per the notability guideline. Nothing against "chapter" articles, but unless they can demonstrate using multiple non-trivial coverage from reliable sources that they are something worth inclusion in an encyclopedia, they are all going to end up either deleted or redirected. brenneman 08:52, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Tables
I just wanted to see if there was a consensus about converting the lists of Famous Betas to tables. I personally find it much easier to read, but when I tried to do the first one, it was promptly reverted with an explanation that it was harder for "noobs" to edit; for myself, that's how i learned how to do things on wikipedia, by seeing someone do it then following the pattern or looking up how to do it in the help section.

Also, I found a link to cite all the Famous Betas with, but I haven't had a chance to edit it in. See Beta Quick Facts] Jameschipmunk 19:28, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Prepare for the beginning of the Reignstorm. I'll be waiting.  -King Beta  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.163.135 (talk) 22:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Status of Chapters
Does the "Status" column belong in the Chapters section? The information isn't encyclopedic, and is subject to change at any time. No source is cited for the information, and no mechanism exists to update it when it changes. Unless someone can provide a compelling defense for the column, I suggest it be removed. I'll check back here in a couple weeks and see if anyone's commented. James A. Stewart 06:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No one's replied, so I'm going to go ahead and remove the column. James A. Stewart 00:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Ashton Kutcher
Kutcher is listed as a member of Delta Chi and as a Beta. Which is it? He is listed on the NIC website as a Delta Chi--which I am inclined to believe. I'll remove him from the Beta page unless someone can provide some proof that he is in fact a Beta.DIDouglass 18:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Ashton Kutcher is not a member of Beta Theta Pi according to our records at the General Fraternity. Umstadter (talk) 13:37, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Ben Stiller
Ben Stiller is not a member of Beta Theta Pi. Robert Umstadter, Associate Director of Communications, Beta Theta Pi Foundation and Administrative Office Umstadter (talk) 04:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Driveway Name
Why is the name of the driveway leading to the administrative office included in the introduction? Hardly seems relevant to be included in the article, much less a place of prominence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.243.27 (talk) 00:30, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Notability
The issue of notability of persons is explained in the article Notability in Wikipedia the specific Wikipedia notability guidelines are linked from there as well. Quick google searches of James Desanto and Justin Bates do not indicate any possible backup for claims of notability.DIDouglass (talk) 14:57, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Men of Principle
The "The recent Men of Principle campaign has caused much controversy between undergraduates and fraternity officials" line strikes me as odd, since the men of principle campaign is not described, nor any reason for the controversy. I'm a member and I only have a vague idea of what the program is and no idea what the possible controversy could be. Citation for this? Lyle (talk) 04:12, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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