Talk:Beth Ditto/Archive 1

Discussion
Please could you put our interview under the references section on the article here's the link http://www.glasswerk.co.uk/index2.php?db=liverpool&page=news,article&id=2840 (Cpwatsonuk1 13:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC))
 * Maybe it's just my browser, but I'm getting a page with no content. Please note that a site is only used as a reference when it is being cited as a source; assuming whatever error there is with the page is fixed, the interview may be used if it provides verification of otherwise questionable statements about the subject. Lucky number 49 15:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I could've sworn I've read interviews with Beth Ditto where she identifies herself as bisexual, not lesbian, but a (very) quick Google search isn't turning anything up... Anyone? Nevergrowold 15:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the fact that her partner is female yet identifies as a man lends weight to this theory...-h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 18:36, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I just came to this talk page to ask about that. The article says she is a lesbian... and is also in a relationship with a transgendered individual who... identifies as a man.. Prima facie, this is a contradiction. We should record the fact that she identifies herself as a lesbian if it's true, but neither of our source links have her identifying as a lesbian, though they themselves call her a lesbian. I'll change it and if anyone objects they can change it back. The Wednesday Island 00:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Update: I have just phoned a friend who knows far more about queer politics than I do, and she advised me that it's not unknown for people to identify as lesbians even though they're dating transmen. I would still like to know how whether she identifies as a lesbian if we're going to state it right up at the front of the article, but I suppose emailing Ditto and asking would be WP:OR. The Wednesday Island 01:10, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Other work

Is it possible for someone more knowledgeable than me to write something about the non-Gossip work she has done, for instance vocals on Har Mar Superstar's album? Elmsyrup 18:21, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Song themes
I think that lesbianity should be added to her musical style and genre, since all of her songs discuss of lesbianistic and other lesbianophile topics. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.228.81.174 (talk) 23:00, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Statistics
Do we have a date or place of birth for her? And is Beth Ditto her full, real name?
 * Her first name's probably Elizabeth. I remember reading that she was born on the same day as Paris Hilton in an interview, and we've established that she was born 1981. Place of birth would probably be Arkansas.--HisSpaceResearch 17:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Her real name is Mary Beth Patterson, born in Judsonia, Arkansas —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ohwhatever (talk • contribs)
 * Source? Lucky number 49 16:45, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Her name was Beth Orton when they used to play in my hometown, before there was a famous Beth Orton. I don't know where this Beth Ditto shit came from. 207.172.186.128 (talk) 17:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I was good friends with Beth's brother when we were kids. I've known her since she was a toddler. Her father's name is Homer Ditto. Her mother's name is Myra Ditto. Her name is Beth Ditto. She grew up in Judsonia, AR. Her cousin is the singer and piano player Kenny Kidd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.13.147.234 (talk) 17:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I can vouch for the good friend of Beth's brother. I spent a very large bit of my childhood in the Ditto/Alery household because I was her middle brother's best friend and lived with them through my senior year due to family problems. I still, to this day, call Myra "mom" because she was always there when I needed advice or someone to talk to. Beth's not the same person as Beth Orton--another great artist--as was speculated above. Before they started The Gossip--I think before even meeting the other members of the band--Beth wanted to be in a band and considered the name "Mother Soul Bread-Winner". She and her friends started calling themselves "the fat girls" in junior high (much to the dismay of the school counselor) as a means of reclaiming the label back from the jerks that used labels like that to harass her about her weight. Beth's first public performance was her goofing off with the karaoke booth at Judsonia's yearly "Prospect Bluff Days" festival, where she drew a pretty sizable crowd (for Judsonia, anyway) with a couple of Melissa Etheridge's songs. --99.28.35.110 (talk) 03:37, 20 November 2010 (UTC)


 * As is stated above, she is from Judsonia, Arkansas, not Searcy. Source: Friday Night Project (S5E07)- Part 1 (at approximately 7:05).  Can we please get this fixed?  --Jevicci (talk) 21:55, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Beth's partner
Although there is citation for the info that Beth's partner is a "transgendered man" I believe that it is wrong. I believe (based on a Beth Ditto interview which I read in a Guardian Weekend magazine) that Beth's partner is actually a transgendered woman. Beth refers to her partner as "he" because she identifies as a man, but I think that she is in fact physically a woman. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.13.207.153 (talk) 00:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC).
 * In a lot of discourse on the topic of gender identity, specifically related to transsexuality and transgender terminology, the word "man" is often used to imply gender identity or perceived gender, whereas "male" is often contrasted as implying physical sex. Such terminology is often extended to the terms "transgender/transsexual man/woman", implying that the individual identifies by the latter term. By these definitions, which are arguably common among transgendered individuals and groups, the original statement regarding Beth's partner is accurate based on the cited source. Lucky number 49 23:16, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Here's the page, the specific paragraph is fifth from the end. http://music.guardian.co.uk/rock/story/0,,1961100,00.html 16th February 2007

I think that the Guardian source is more likely to be accurate, as it has exact quotes from Beth on the subject, whereas in the article cited at the moment there are no quotes from Beth about her partner's gender or sex. 16th February 2007


 * Agree that her partner is probably physically a woman, based on that Article GiantSnowman 12:37, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Her partner was born female, but has a male gender identity, making him a transgendered man (FtM). And "she" doesn't identify as a man--he does.never grow old 05:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The quote in the guardian actually says that her partner, Freddie, has a 'genderqueer' identity that's both masculine and feminine, and she suggests that either pronoun is OK. Maybe best to avoid using either in the article, although I see there's now no reference to Freddie in the article. sorsoup (talk) 12:58, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The preferred pronoun in which circumstances is often held to be ze/zim/zis
 * Nuttyskin (talk) 16:06, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Shaving?
You can clearly see that quote is rubbish. just look at the two pitures you crazies have of her, they are shaven. BYE Jimmy93211 21:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * She is unshaven on the Standing In The Way Of Control album cover GiantSnowman 22:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Weight 95 kilos?
What does it matter what she weighs? nobody would write what say, kate moss or robert plant weighs. why do you think this is approprieate? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.43.79.48 (talk) 15:54, 3 March 2007 (UTC).
 * I agree, though I think her weight might be a little more relevant if something were added about her fat-positive politics. Maybe. never grow old 05:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

It matters as she always goes on about it; maybe if she had never made a big deal about her weight and sexual orientation, nobody would give a crap. It's cause she's used her 'nonconformity' as a springboard to launch The Gossip that her orientation and weight should be mentioned. I personally wish she'd shut up about it and let her music do the talking.


 * She addresses it because the media addresses it. It's smart PR to take control of her image rather than allow others to judge and speculate.  It's naive to think the media's fixation on her size can be blamed on her 'making a big deal about it'!  Do you think they would just politely pretend not to notice?  And to say that her weight and sexuality are career-boosting gimmicks is just bogus.  Ericaparrott (talk) 23:43, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

She goes on about it because she is clearly not 95kg! She is way more. I should know, I weigh more than 95kg and she's bigger than me. Marnifrances 07:10, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Various instances of recent vandalism on this page have generally been things like "fat stinky lesbian bitch". It'll be one to watch for more vandalism as The Gossip become increasingly popular.--h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 18:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank God!! I was thinking she is way more than 210 pnds. Cause as was stated before, I know how much I weigh, and me and Beth Ditto are practically twins, I put her at 250 easy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.103.166.209 (talk) 23:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

More vandalism
Last paragraph of the first segment. take a look.

Criticism of Beth Ditto
At the moment this may be WP:OR and as such is not yet going in the article, but I seem to remember people claiming that Beth Ditto had this attitude that "I'm a fat lesbian so that makes me better than you because I'm in the minority", and that the band's music in itself was of poor quality and is more about the so-called message. Also, she's been criticised for the possibility of suggesting that the medical condition of obesity is 'normal' or 'healthy'. If this opinion has been published in WP:RS, cite it.-h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 10:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

This is too graphic!!!!!
"I got my period just 10 minutes before we got there, and I was totally bleeding. I was doing it with my tranny boyfriend, who I’m in love with, and I was totally bleeding — how radical is that? — and I’m a fat person, and I’m a femme."

This is not necessary, she posed for the magazine fine, but this graphic description is OTT! This wouldn't be permitted in an article for a straight celebrity! The Gossip have young fans & I think most people reading this just don't need to know these details —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.81.204 (talk) 16:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * She said it; she doesn't care. I personally think it's gross, more information than i want, but it shouldn't be taken out of here.  Cheers, Lindsay 16:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

First line of this article. Vandalism?
"Beth Ditto (born 19 February 1981) is the a fat ugly slag."

Seems like someone replaced something after the "the" with "a fat ugly slag." Anyone know what was there before?

132.210.72.138 (talk) 21:32, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I recommend the "history" button at the top of your page. The Wednesday Island (talk) 21:53, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

New picture please
That picture is pretty horrible. She's all sweaty/wet (maybe a plus to some?) and the red eye is pretty bad. Gigs (talk) 04:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * So find a new picture! We can't use what we don't have.  Note that WP policy prefers free-licensed photos over restricted publicity photos. The Wednesday Island (talk) 11:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I replaced it. Her face is partially covered in this one, but I still think it looks like her though.

SylviaBoBilvia (talk) 23:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Beth Ditto at Evans
Under ==Personal Life==, the following copy may be relevent - "On July 9th, 2009, Beth's fashion collection for the UK retailer Evans will start being sold online in select stores across the UK." (Reference: http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/fashion/article6462773.ece) Breli457 (talk) 10:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Already done Just turning off the template. Celestra (talk) 15:02, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Personal life
Under "Personal Life" it says "She has been photographed numerous times." What is that sentence even trying to say? There are aboriginal tribesman in remote regions who've been "photographed several times." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.151.161.62 (talk) 19:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. I've removed the statement for now. Papa November (talk) 19:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The sentence was trying to say that "she has been photographed numerous times for magazines". I don't know why I didn't add those last two words. --Heslopian (talk) 21:23, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Photographs of Beth Ditto
Please can we discuss the relative merits of the different photographs of Beth on this page before altering the article. I am sure that there is room here for all opinions. Holly har (talk) 18:26, 27 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, you could have started by explaining the reasoning behind your revert. Anyway, I preferred the new one from San Francisco mainly because it's... new. The more up-to-date imagery, the better, I find. Also, the face is equally well visible in both of the images, I think. Why revert it? (as a side note, small-scale changes like this don't really require a discussion beforehand, but only when disagreements occur. WP:BOLD) —Quibik (talk) 01:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The red hair picture is a good one, which is why I posted it elsewhere on the page, but I prefer the previous one, which is why I reverted to it. I am also not sure whether the red photo complies with Flickr Community Guidelines which specify that if you post a Flickr photo on an external website, the photo must link back to its photo page. Holly har (talk) 18:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Linking back to the Flickr photo is indeed necessary due to Creative Commons' attribution requirement. That however is done on each image's description page and is sufficient. As a general rule, attribution is not done in the article (WP:Caption). So this is not an issue to worry about. So, do you have any reasonable objections against using the newer (red-hair) image in the infobox? I'd prefer to use that one for the reasons explained above.—Quibik (talk) 20:58, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Guest Vocal Appearence
"Cruel Intentions" by Simian Mobile Disco, features Beth Ditto from Gossip. Track is from Simian Mobile Disco's second album Temporary Pleasure (2009). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.50.252.77 (talk) 13:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Beth Ditto EP
Why does the Beth Ditto EP chart on singles chart (in the UK and in Switzerland ), but the song "I Wrote the Book" charts by itself in other countries (Beligum, France, and Switzerland )? How should this be categorized? Burnberrytree (talk) 00:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Drunk in Public - Portand Oregon - March 16, 2013
And I really doubt that she was fined £286 in a country that doesn't use the Pound Sterling as currency. Dutchman Schultz (talk) 02:16, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 March 2013
Beth Ditto was arrested on March, 16 2013 at 12:56AM for disorderly conduct in Portland, Oregon. She was released later that day.

Robotpandasattack (talk) 21:46, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done-- Laun  chba  ller  21:29, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on June 21 2013
Rather than reporting her fine in Pounds, how about editing it to say she was given a $435 fine? Here is the reference: http://portland-review.com/?p=6863 and http://www.nme.com/news/beth-ditto/69380. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 14:31, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on April 13 2015
Please can we add info to the article about her guest vocals on the Marc Almond album, The Velvet Trail. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dennisthemonkeychild (talk • contribs) 22:00, 13 April 2015‎