Talk:Beth din

This is a great article
This is a great article. This is possibly the best article on a Jewish subject on wikipedia. All the others are rally scew and biased, or are incomplete. I congradulate whoever put up this article. 88.154.27.69 14:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Unbroken Semicha?
I do not intend on adding any of this to this article but I think some would be interested in knowing some things that have recently surfaced.

Although it may seem Quixotic and a bit off of the beaten path, I seriously am studying the possibility of the existence of an unbroken chain of Semicha. These are just some possibilities that I would (hesitantly) like to share for your consideration.

Rambam wrote, "If there is one with uninterrupted semicha, you do not require everyone’s agreement." This seems to indicate he did not view cessation of Semicha as conclusive. Rav Yisroel of Shklov seems to have shared this view inasmuch as he attempted to discover Semicha in Yemen in the 1830s. His answer to the objection of Semichut being conferred in Yemen instead of Israel was centered around the fact that they had been distant from the rest of Klal Yisroel before such a ruling had been accepted. Since they knew nothing of this ruling and had obviously not accepted it themselves, there was a possibility they were still keeping the institution of semicha alive. This attempt ended in failure.

However recent research discoveries reveal Rav Yisroel may not have been so far off the track after all. Professor Tudar Parfitt has some incredible evidence that a group of Jewish people left Israel 2,500 years ago settling in Yemen and populating a city their oral tradition remembered as Senna. Unfavorable conditions forced them to travel onward ultimately settling around the area of Zimbabwe. They began to assimilate with the surrounding gene pool. They passed down from generation to generation the tradition that they were Jewish and had an unbroken ordination succession (both Cohanim and some non-Cohanim Lemba claim Semicha). Magdel le Roux quotes a Lemba saying, "The succession is just from our forefathers right up to this generation." For many years scientists laughed at this group of black people who called themselves Jewish. They stopped laughing when the Lemba were tested and found to share the same genes as Jewish people in Israel as well as having the Y chromosomal genetic markers, known as the Cohen Modal Haplotype.

Dr. Rudo Mathiva stated, " We, the Jewish community are guilty--guilty because we never accepted what the Lemba had always maintained...until [the] genetic proof recently ; that their story was a part of ours. We are guilty because we rejected them. "

It was discovered their ancient tradition of having sojourned from an unknown city called Senna was true when Dr. Parfitt discovered this small city in Yemen. In view of another discovery Dr. Mathiva says, "Old maps of the Holy Land have now revealed that there was a place called Lemba way back BCE." Also an ancient artifact Lemba claimed to have possessed centuries ago was proven to be true when this artifact was discovered by Dr. Parfitt.

The haunting question is this: If they were correct about all of their other ancient claims....are they correct about possessing an unbroken Semicha?

Another case to consider (for the mystically minded) would be that of the ARI. Isaac Bin Luria claimed Eliyahu HaNavie (Elijah the prophet) paid him frequent visits throughout his lifetime, initiating him into sublime truths. Since Elijah had never tasted of death this would not have been a "phantom" but the real Elijah. If this is true then there would be no doubt Semicha continued because the ARI's line is still presently extent.

Then there is the claim of Semicha surviving in Europe and the claim of a small group of Jews in America and Israel having received it from them.

Also there have been many laymen "balebatim" who have semicha and were officially "ordained" but do not practice as rabbis at all.

We must seriously consider the theorem that in times when persecution prohibited the existence of ordained Rabbi’s that the father automatically became Rabbi of the home and passed his rabbinical blessing to his son (or children) until such time the classical form of Semicha was able to be resumed (after all Rabbi does mean "teacher"). Perhaps we need to reconsider what was halackally acceptable transmission of Semicha in times past when Hashem's people were faced with insurmountable persecution and threat of death.

It is possible that in time of unavoidable secrecy and threat of death that Hashem accepted the following as transmission of Semicha : Transmission of Torah from teacher to student (or father to son) consisting of Torah teaching, pronunciation of blessing, and the physical embrace and/or kiss. This would have been an acceptable link in the unbroken chain of Semichut until such a time that the classical Semicha could be resumed by Rambam's suggestion of all the sages of Israel coming together, unanimously ordaining judges, and then resuming classical Semicha. This is the most practical and pragmatic approach. If, as many believe, there was an unbroken chain of transmission of Torah, there by necessity must be a teacher to transmit it and a student to receive it, and this done in perpetual succession.

Consider the precision that the Torah was preserved in and passed on in times of aggressive prohibition. Consider the intricate, detailed, typologies involved in Pesach observance. Consider the multitude of details in Jewish observances accurately handed down from generation to generation of families forbidden to observe such custom even at the threat of death and extinction. Hashem has preserved the Jewish people, their traditions, and the Cohanim in the brutal face of Dispersion, holocausts, prison, and centuries of exile. Hitler could not burn her traditions, Nazi's could not imprison them, and exile could not silence her voice.

I believe it is possible and is worthy of further research to inquire into the possibility that He also preserved an unbroken Chain of Semicha.

CWatchman (talk) 16:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * There are a number of problems with the above. Firstly a rabbi has always meant a 'teacher', but it may not mean a communal teacher as modern communities see them. The original meaning was a form of address of a student to his/her teacher, usually the father, so the unbroken Smicha exists in any family where there is an unbroken practice of Torah teaching from generation to generation. What this means is that it is far from a rare thing to find! The greatest problem is the destruction of Jewish records during the last five centuries that may or may not prove this legacy--mrg3105 (comms) ♠ ♥ ♦ ♣ 23:48, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

List of Beth Din?
Should there be a list of cities worldwide (notable ones, of course) with a Beit Din court? I know Brooklyn, NY has one; as does Baltimore, MD. Or does that border on trivia too much?--MicahBrwn (talk) 17:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Gaavad
I think the term "Gaavad" (Gaon Av Beth Din) should be added to the list of officers, and an explanation given as to his function. Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 20:06, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Beth din shel Kohanim
Please note page move discussion on related recently created article. Also note that it appears partly a fork from this, but is not linked here. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:35, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Reversed text
The introduction is reversed. Can someone have a look at it? I do not know how to undone it. 213.37.12.49 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:46, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Husbands who refuse to give their wives one
I think this ought to be amended to husbands who refuse to give their wives a divorce: in colloquial English, to give (somebody) one means to copulate with them. Nuttyskin (talk) 01:34, 28 May 2018 (UTC)