Talk:Betsy Boze

Tri Delta
References have been added that should satisy any external standard that yes, Dr. Boze really is and was a Tri Delta. Current links include: (yes, they may not be the most reliable, but when you take this as a "body of evidence" it is a piece, and we aren't vetting her for the Supreme Court here!)
 * 3 different year's Rotunda yearbook pages references showing her as a Tri Delta (Theta Kappa) at Southern Methodist University from 1972-1974
 * 2 Tri Delta collegiate chapter web pages referencing Dr. Boze as a Tri Delta
 * One of several articles about her that appeared in The Trident, Tri Delta's quarterly magazine (there are several, but can't find old copies and only the last year is on line.)
 * A link to her Tri Delta page. It is password protected, but other Tri Deltas can see and verify it.  It too, adds to the "body of evidence." It would not be possible to create the page without verified Tri Delta credentials.

I did not add her Facebook entry back in that had been previously removed, because it seemed trite compared to the above. But it, too, adds to the body of knowledge. So I really hope that this will put this topic to rest, finally.

Copyright Vio
An IP keeps adding copying and pasting information from here to the article. I am replying on the talk page of the article because it's been a few different IPs that have been doing this. In anycase I received a message on my talk page stating that they were the original author of the material on the EDUCAUSE page, which is being copied to here. In any case the website states:

''Unless otherwise noted, EDUCAUSE holds the copyright on all materials published by the association, whether in print or electronic form. In certain cases the work remains the intellectual property of the individual author(s) (see Special Circumstances below). These are noted where appropriate. In general, permission to copy or disseminate EDUCAUSE materials, either print or electronic, is granted if the following conditions are met: To disseminate otherwise, or to republish, requires written permission.
 * copies are not made or distributed for commercial advantage
 * the EDUCAUSE copyright and its date appear on the reproduced materials
 * notice is given that copying is by permission of EDUCAUSE

The page itself makes no notations as to the authorship of the information besides the fact that it is copyrighted to EDUCAUSE. Anything used on wikipedia must be used under fair use, For content to be "free", there must be no significant legal restriction on its use, redistribution or modification, for any purpose. So basically until EDUCAUSE releases the information and states so according to wikipedia policy the information does not belong on here unless its been rewritten. I am going to revert this copyvio one more time and if any IPs attempt to reinstate it without further discussion on the talk page I will report them. Thank you. --ImmortalGoddezz 19:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

References needed,
I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons.

–Jimmy Wales —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.76.239.83 (talk) 19:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Pronouciation?
Someone removed the "rhymes with rose" pronounciation, which is fine. But since Boze can and is mispronounced in so many ways -- Booze, Baz, Bo-zay, etc., could someone that understands the phonetic alphabet please add a pronunciation guide early in the description? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KentStark (talk • contribs) 12:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Edits
Please do not undo the edits I made. This page needs a ton of work. If you have issues with certain edits, please address them each individually rather than doing a blanket "undo" without any explanation as to why you are undoing a specific edit. This seems to be an ongoing problem with articles relating to Kent State University Stark Campus.

That said, here are explanations for the edits I made:
 * First, Kent State Stark is a regional campus of Kent State University; that needs to be reflected in this article to give the reader an idea of what Dr. Boze is in charge of and that she is, in fact, not a university president or equal to one. It is not relevant to include that KSU-Stark is part of the University System of Ohio since that makes no difference in relation to the subject of the article, which is Dr. Boze.  That's beside the fact that both the University System of Ohio's wiki article and website both simply list their members by the entire university system (i.e. "Kent State University") since "Kent State University" includes all 8 campuses.  Perhaps mentioning the University System of Ohio could be included as part of the paragraph, but the most important fact to be included is the fact that Kent State Stark is a regional campus (and the largest of them) of Kent State.


 * The other edits were to remove some clutter. For instance, it is unnecessary to state that Kent State Stark is located in "North Canton (Stark County), Ohio."  All that needs to be written is North Canton, Ohio, USA.  If the reader wants to know where North Canton is, they can click the wikilink.  I also added "campus" to the Kent State Stark wikilink since that is the actual page it links to and it is the official name of the campus.


 * The phrase "Co-Located" should not be capitalized since it is a generic phrase.

Again, when you make edits or undos, please include a brief rationale behind them in the box provided above the "save page" button. --JonRidinger (talk) 15:04, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Templates
Both the KSU template and succession box need to remain in the article. Because Boze was Dean at a KSU campus, she is part of the University's history and thus is a part of the template. The template is for all notable things related to Kent State University, no matter which campus. As for the succession box, it is actually for individuals and not the for the school, so it is more appropriate to be here than at the Kent State University Stark Campus article. Please become familiar with the purposes behind each of these organizational tools and refrain from removing them. Removing them would be considered vandalism. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:02, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality issue: Resignation as dean
Given that her resignation is sourced to a Canton newspaper, why does this keep getting removed from the article? —C.Fred (talk) 01:57, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As the publisher of the Canton newspaper -- even he acknowledges that this is NOT what happened. Perpetuation this story does nothing to enhance this article about a living person.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sassy Sylvia (talk • contribs) 02:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Have you got a link to the retraction, then? The story is still up on the website. —C.Fred (talk) 02:18, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * She did, however, resign which should be mentioned as part of her career and there was an incident regarding a parking sign at Stark State (Google "Dr. Boze resignation") reported in far more than just the Canton Repository, as well as quotes from Dr. Boze that she did deface a parking sign. And based on the experiences I have had as a Wikipedia editor with Dr. Boze and her associates, I know from that and those who have worked with her that she has had her employees at Kent State Stark create, edit, and monitor articles, so it comes as no surprise this has a "prepared biography" feel to it designed to make her look good rather than appear as a neutral encyclopedic article. This, as well as the Kent State University Stark Campus article, should definitely be watched for neutrality issues. --JonRidinger (talk) 02:26, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Can we remove the Neutrality box? What good does it do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.105.234.130 (talk) 18:42, 21 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As I stated previously, there are other neutrality issues in this article besides the one about the resignation. The tag is in place to let other editors know this article needs work and also for readers who come here expecting to find an unbiased, neutral article.  The tag also states to not remove it "until the issue is resolved" which it most certainly has not been at this point.  --JonRidinger (talk) 19:29, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Removing neutrality tag
For those who keep trying to remove that neutrality tag, please remember that tags should only be removed when the issue they point out has been resolved. In this case, the issue is the article's general tone that promotes Dr. Boze rather than present a neutral, unbiased article about her and her career. Until that issue is resolved, which would involve rewriting much of the article, please do not remove the tag. For more tips on how to improve the article, please become familiar with the Manual of Style and check out WikiProject Biography. This article has more issues than just its neutrality. --JonRidinger (talk) 12:12, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Neutrality includes all aspects of her career, both the positives and the negatives. She resigned from Kent, and multiple sources have linked the resignation to an incident involving a parking sign. Accordingly, that should be mentioned in the article. —C.Fred (talk) 20:12, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Recurring neutrality issues
It seems to me that this article is particularly problematic regarding its neutrality. Not only is the whole scope as well as the language employed glaringly biased towards promoting Dr. Boze, but the single negative fact is being systematically removed, despite the fact that it is: 1)pertinent to the subject 2)Properly inserted in the article, and 3)confirmed by many verified sources. I'll be watching the article in order to prevent further biases but it seems that it actually requires a complete rewrite to remove the biased presentation as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Uuchie (talk • contribs) 22:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Name change
''Talk:Betsy vogel has a link to this section. Please do not rename it.''

Today, an anonymous editor turned Betsy vogel from a redirect into a branched article. I've turned that page back to a redirect, since the longer edit history is here.

The discussion here, then, is on the name change. What evidence is there to support the name change? If reliable sources can be found showing she's going by her maiden(?) name again, I've got no problems with moving the page, though I think some mention of her former name will need to be made in the article. —C.Fred (talk) 12:09, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

The IP's version of the article had only one external link, to http://www.educause.edu/Community/MemDir/Profiles/BetsyVogelBoze/56029, which refers to her as Betsy Vogel Boze. —C.Fred (talk) 12:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Notability?
I don't know anything about Dr. Boze, but I would expect to be able to quickly learn from the Introduction section why I should know who she is. Her notability isn't clear from how it's presently written. Does she have broad significance beyond the universities in which she worked? Also, apart from the lacking intro, this looks like a very long article for someone who doesn't appear to have a clear "claim to fame." Tim D (talk) 14:36, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Purocafe3 (talk) 19:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)Agreed, Boze is not noteworthy enough to be included in Wikipedia. Her claims are not verifiable and there are multiple copyright violations. The page needs to be discussed for permanent deletion instead of constantly being revised, deleted and reposted.Purocafe3 (talk) 19:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Note to Purocafe3, take the article through WP:AFD before removing content as 'page deleted'. --ImGz ( t/c ) 21:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Current Employment Status?
Just a note, as of 6/30/09 at 11:59pm, Betsy Boze is no longer an employee of Kent State University. Her contract expired at the end of the fiscal year. Any suggestions on how her employment status can be updated to be accurate without simply saying Employer (none). Any ideas folks? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jazz1965 (talk • contribs) 14:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * What's the source for expiry of her contract? —C.Fred (talk) 16:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality Tag
As the portion of the talk page discussing the neutrality issues has not updated since June/July of last year and in light of the recent edits attempting to move this article toward neutrality, I would like to reopen the discussion. Please list below specific issues within the article that are biased or skew the article one direction or the other so that they can be taken care of and the tag can be removed. Thanks!! Jheditorials (talk) 22:20, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I have followed this page closely and think that most of the issues have been stabilized. While POV isn't my specialty, I could support removing the tag. My only suggestion would be reducing non encyclopedic material. Most of it (family, hobbies, languages spoken, etc.) has already been removed. FallenAngelsandDemons (talk) 12:01, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


 * While some of the "flowery" language has been addressed, the article overall still reads mostly like a bio (like we would see on a company website) rather than an encylcopedic article as it highlights all the positives and all the good things this person has done or is associated with and glosses over why she abruptly resigned from Kent State Stark. I received communication from Kent State Stark employees who stated that Dr. Boze indeed had employees assigned to write and monitor this and the Kent State University at Stark articles and also that she likely edited the articles herself under several sockpuppet accounts while she was dean.  While I didn't initially place the tag, as far as I remember, it was placed due to the resignation mention which was repeatedly removed or reworded.  But even then, the article was already overwhelmingly positive and promotional.  --JonRidinger (talk) 16:28, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Would you be willing to edit the article to help move it toward a more neutral tone? Maybe adding additional information to make it read less like a bio or working on the resignation section to include all of the necessary information?Jheditorials (talk) 02:05, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Recurring whitewashing
Just like a year ago, this article continues to be whitewashed, specially in regards to her resignation from Kent. In the period of less than 15 days the paragraph in question was already removed 2 times, both of them by anonymous users, and in both times the removal was not mentioned, let alone justified or explained.

It seems clear to me that there is a group of people (whether sockpuppets or just an overzealous fan-club), who have, ever since this article was written, strived to keep it as close to a prepared curriculum vitae as possible. Perhaps it warrants limiting editing rights to this article, was well as reinstating the neutrality tag? Uuchie (talk) 20:09, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * This is from over three years ago and still seems true in reading the article. It reads like a resume or one of those biographical web pages you expect to find from the given school this person is employed by. It certainly isn't anything close to encyclopedic and appears to have some sockpuppets working. If they aren't socks, they all seem to edit close together and on the same basic topics and with similar characteristics. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:27, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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