Talk:Bev Harris

Biography assessment rating comment
WikiProject Biography Assessment Drive

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 02:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Stale mirror
Found stale mirror of this article at http://www.fact-index.com/b/be/bev_harris.html. Wondering why "which repeats the long discredited (http://www.insomnomaniac.com/archives/000525.html) claim that bush went AWOL during his military service in the Viet Nam era" was removed from this article. Is it not true? <>< tbc

NPOV tag
I re-added the npov tag, since the language seems to be non-neutral (like "a true american hero"). I don't know the original reason for the tag, but this probably needs attention. --TeaDrinker 06:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I tried to edit to make POV improvements, to make this more neutral, but I could not do so. Perhaps I need to create an account?68.167.224.8 06:51, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Curious, in what way were you prevented from editing? You should not have to log in to make edits... Did you get an error message of some kind when you were trying to edit it?  You're not blocked; maybe it is some kind of bug.  --TeaDrinker 06:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Enlighten the reader; don't instruct
The author is telling the reader how to feel. I'm sure with a quick NPOV style edit, someone could enlighten the reader as to Ms. Harris's contributions to the BBV movement and let them decided how they feel about her. Bye the way, I'm not offering to write it. I know very little about the subject. After reading the article, I still know very little her.Kidigus 01:31, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed prod
After adding NY Times article about her work by Paul Krugman and HBO documentary about her work to establish notability.Edison 20:35, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for improving the article. I encourage you to do further work, if you are so inclined. - Crockspot 03:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Fantastic job
Another facade of our wonderful government exposed. This is right up there with our Income tax structure, Pharmaceutical drugs and more. Great Job on Hacking Democracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.26.79 (talk • contribs) 17:45 7 November 2006

Bev's edits

 * BBV opposes voting machines (Bev deleted that and it's important) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.202.138.2 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 3 October 2007
 * Per Bev Harris's comment on your talk page, your statement about her views is inaccurate andf unsourced. Edison 17:50, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Hacking Democracy

 * There is already and article on the film, with a "main" link. There is no need to repeat the entire article here.
 * Removed duplicate info under "other activists" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.202.138.2 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 3 October 2007

BBV references

 * Providing links from the BBV organization is essentially Bev Harris writing her original research and then writing her own sources. To quote Wikipedia policy "Self-published sources should never be used as third-party sources about living persons, even if the author is a well-known professional researcher or writer."
 * "Seattle Weekly article 'Bigbrother.gov'" 2004 Does not actually reference any of that section's topics.
 * Most of the references provided are unavailable and cannot be substantiated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.202.138.2 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 3 October 2007
 * What does "unavailable" mean to you, and which references specifically are you referring to? Edison 18:15, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Bev's blanket revert
Bev has performed a full revert of the above changes with no explanation. This has been repaired. 64.202.138.2 17:01, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Much of the deleted text was referenced to original documents available at Harris's website, but third party publications have covered the same ground and a search would have shown that the deleted material can be referenced to the numerous articles on black box voting in well known publications. The removal was premature, pending efforts to source the statements to sites other than hers. Her site can certainly be used as a source about her and about her work, per WP:V. I have restored the disputed material to the article pending discussion here. The best approach is to go through the disputed material here and see if the various articles from national publications, congressional hearings, etc can serve to refeerence it, rather than starting or perpetuating a revert war, which is contrary to WP:3RR. In addition to references to Harris's site, you deleted such references as the HBO documentary Documentary: Hacking Democracy Nov, 2006, Vanity Fair: Hack the Vote; April 1, 2004 by Michael Shnayerson, and Seattle Post-Intelligencer: No elections harmed by work of ex-cons; February 12, 2004, and "Seattle Weekly article 'Bigbrother.gov'" 2004. The "Hacking Democracy" documentary was largely based on the work of Harris and it is appropriate to discuss it at length in this article. Copies of court records seem like pretty good proof of someone having a criminal record, although they are less accessible than if there were a newspaper article reporting the conviction. Fortunately two reliable publications furnish such third party references. Presumably if Harris was able to obtain the court records, other editors could too. The subsequent reporting by the Seattle Post Intelligencer and Vanity Fair  corroborate the original investigation by Harris which disclosed the criminal record, and her copies of the records are an appropriate addition to the article.   Edison 17:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Conflict of interest
It appears there are some potentially significant conflicts of interest here. There are a number of references to documents hosted on Bev's own website. These have not and cannot be authenticated by anyone and cannot be considered reliable resources. Further Bev should be made aware of WP policy on editing your own biography. --71.178.193.134 (talk) 03:27, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Dear anonymous editor at IP 71.178.193.134: Please read the preceding section, which discusses reliable sources which corroborate statements made at Harris's website. Edison (talk) 13:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Edison, the previous discussion does not provide any plan for solving the COI. If so many other sources cover this story than those should be references. Bev's discussion board is the primary reference in this article and needs to be improved. --71.178.193.134 (talk) 03:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments from Bev Harris
From Bev Harris - I'm not sure how to add commentary so if I've done this wrong, let me know.

Cite for the following: (Harris wrote an article on July 8, 2003 detailing how to bypass passwords and manipulate election results on the Diebold GEMS central tally system.[citation needed]) is here: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm

Calling photocopies of public records an "unreliable source" or a "self published source" is incorrect; therefore I ask that this "unreliable source" note be removed: (Harris discovered that counterfeit audit records[6][unreliable source?] -- That the records were counterfeit is clearly shown in the HBO Film Hacking Democracy, made by a film company with no relationship to me or Black Box Voting - Public records provided by Volusia County included an original, signed set from Nov. 2 and a set from Nov. 15, and the votes differed by hundreds of votes. Both the actual handing over of the records by Volusia County is documented (Hacking Democracy film) and photocopies of the records themselves (link supplied in footnote [6]). Please delete this inappropriate description of the records as an unreliable source.

I understand that citations for Hacking Democracy are removed when redundant. As for this: ( Susan Pynchon and Broward Election Reform Coalition founder Ellen Brodsky found more original poll tapes in the garbage behind the Volusia County elections office.[citation needed]) the incident was captured live on video and appears in the Hacking Democracy film. Same link to that used elsewhere supplies the cite.

As for this: (she also obtained secret test lab reports which showed that the Ciber Laboratories omitted security testing on the machines.[10][unreliable source?]) the reports themselves are public records, and the film crew from Hacking Democracy was present when I pulled the public records out of the mailbox, and filmed it. The records come from the State of Georgia and from the Dan Spillane lawsuit against VoteHere. Not sure why 71.178.193.134 keeps calling public records an unreliable source. He can obtain them himself with public records requests, or he can look at the photocopies I posted, or he can look at the video of the records in Hacking Democracy as they are pulled fresh out of the envelope from Georgia. The "secret" description is because, oddly, I had not requested the records and the Georgia employee stuck the lab report in the envelope. At that time, the vendors had been trying to keep these reports secret.

As for this: (which she donated to the nonprofit Black Box Voting organization.[16][verification needed]). The donation is shown on the referenced page of the 990 tax form which is photocopied and link provided. Please remove the note "verification needed."

Please remove the description as "unreliable source" for the criminal records. These are photocopies of public records. (Harris also identified and broke the story on the criminal records of a number of individuals who owned, programmed, and printed ballots in the elections industry. [11][unreliable source?][12][unreliable source?]) If you need further information, I can supply citations from the Seattle Times article regarding the Jeffrey Dean arrest for embezzlement. Since the second individual was jailed for narcotics trafficking, a common enough offense that it is not always accompanied by a news article, the public records should suffice. Please remove "unreliable source" info from this section.

Regarding this: (The order was dropped following an investigation by The Seattle Weekly[17][not in citation given]) I'll remove that line since there was not a news article about the dropping of the investigation. I do have public records showing that the investigation was dropped, because I did a Freedom of Information request for them. It took four years to get the FOIA.

This one: (Original investigative work by Harris has been featured in the New York Times, Washington Post, Time Magazine, CNN, ABC, MSNBC, CBS, Fox News, and NBC, as well as by the Associated Press, NPR, and many other mainstream news outlets.[citation needed]) - note that there are generally no links or permanent citations for appearances on shows like ABC Good Morning America, which I was on in March 2004, or Fox & Friends (Fox Network) which I was on in November 2006. If necessary I can go pull citations for the print media coverage, but broadcast media is not always available in the form of a link when it is years after the fact.

Best, and if you prefer I add in my own citations and edits, let me know. Bev Harris (talk) 23:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 one external links on Bev Harris. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070128005653/http://avirubin.com:80/vote/analysis/index.html to http://avirubin.com/vote/analysis/index.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081006024936/http://www.bbvforums.org:80/forums/messages/137/15675.html to http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/137/15675.html
 * Added tag to http://www.nationaljournal.com/techdaily/ta_20060530_11.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070202072239/http://www.bbvdocs.org:80/general/ciber-reports.zip to http://www.bbvdocs.org/general/ciber-reports.zip
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071012063717/http://bbvdocs.org/dean.pdf to http://bbvdocs.org/dean.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071128155754/http://www.bbvdocs.org/elder.pdf to http://www.bbvdocs.org/elder.pdf

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 05:44, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Nonprofit status
I've edited the article to reflect that Black Box Voting is no longer a nonprofit organization, after viewing a YouTube video, posted on 2016-10-31, in which Bev Harris was interviewed by Infowars host Alex Jones, and she stated that the organization had been converted into a sole proprietorship in order to free it from statutory restrictions against political advocacy. It wasn't clear from the context when this change happened. — Quicksilver (Hydrargyrum)T @ 21:44, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Probably about the same time she disappeared (in November or December of 2016). Her web site hasn't been updated since that changeover. Nor have there been any new tweets . Her personal web site hasn't been touched either. And her Facebook account has been silent since then as well. And many of the links at her blackboxvoting.org web site have been disabled; including the interesting fact finding behind electronic voting machine hardware and software (i.e., the fact that if one follows the corporate trail far enough up the river one finds that both are owned by a single individual, not of American citizenship, and not residing in the United States). I suppose that person would not appreciate that being documented, eh! The only current reference I could find was a Beverly J. Harris obituary in November of 2016 . Hmph. Glad to hear from anyone with more recent information on Bev. JimScott (talk) 23:41, 2 March 2018 (UTC)