Talk:Beverly Hills High School

Assess
One of the top 200 school articles. Need to use the ref tag to make your references neater and put refs on your alumni. This could be one of the top 20 or so... Schools project can help Victuallers 19:15, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Moncrief - Great article going on a notable high school, I'm glad to see someone tackling it. Don't forget the oil wells and cancer concern. And of course a mention of "West Beverly High", its fictional sibling. Cheers, -Willmcw 08:14, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Please add info on any and all of those things you mentioned!  I can't say I know much about any of them.  West Beverly is the school in "90210," right?  Moncrief 09:54, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

Removed Trevor McFedries. No verifiable source, link, etc. If you want to include him, you might as well include everyone else who graduated 2005, and have dreams, aspirations to become famous. He's not the only one.

I've updated the Aerial Photograph of Beverly Hills High School, from Microsoft's Terraserver to Google Map. Terraserver was extremely slow. Google Map's version was more faster, better for viewers.

Did Alicia Silverstone really attend Beverly Hills High School? When I visited the Alicia Silverstone wikipedia article, it seemed like she spent all of her life in the Bay Area attending San Mateo High School. -Zoodoo

Website Links
Should we create another section for links of clubs and activities such as robotics, lacrosse, deca, etc? -CyberSlice22

Sure okay. The only problem is that there are a lot of new clubs and activities that surface every semester. While most of the clubs stay, there are some who quit. Maintaining a list of clubs and activities will be difficult unless we get some help from students who are attending the school-Brian

New comments
Would anybody have an objection to adding a list of staff at this school or a list of AP Classes offered? CyberSlice22


 * We usually don't have extensive lists of either staff, faculty, or student body government. The information changes so quickly. For high schools we just list the principal. BTW, can anyone get a photo of the front? -Will Beback 08:35, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The front of what?-CyberSlice22


 * Sory, that wasn't clear. The front of the school. -Will Beback 04:01, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem. I wil try to get some pictures of the campus this weekend. -CyberSlice22

It seems the "Pipe Dreams" episode of "Saved By The Bell" -- http://www.tv.com/saved-by-the-bell/pipe-dreams/episode/21750/summary.html -- was inspired by the Beverly's real-life oil well. This seems like the sort of pop-culture cross-reference that would appear in a Wikipedia article. [10 July 2006 -- Sorry I don't know how to properly sign a comment.]

There are two identical pictures of the Swim Gym in the article. Can't someone find another shot to put near the top? Also: doesn't the discussion of Beverly in the 1980s seem a bit lengthy in proportion to everything else on the page? - Dr. Maitland 22:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Maitland here again, harping on the same issue as above. Would it be possible to replace one of those photos of the Swim Gym with one of the ubiquitous pictures of the older (i.e., original) campus buildings? - Dr. Maitland 22:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

helpme I just adding some info on the section on DIVERSITY, and the bottom half of the entire article is missing. How to restore?Dr. Maitland 16:52, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed, by, you forgot to close your ref tag-- VectorPotential Talk 17:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!Dr. Maitland 00:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I have tried twice, in vain, to suggest that someone replace one of the TWO IDENTICAL PHOTOS OF THE SWIM GYM with a different shot -- the one of the school that appears at the school's website would be ideal. How do I put the word out? I would not consider myself qualified to undertake this, but a more adept Wikipedian should be up to the task. The photo closest to the top of the page should be a scene of the school. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dr. Maitland (talk • contribs) 18:18, May 9, 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like you are in the right location, if you want more input on the article I'd suggest that you have a look at an article request for comment. ——  Eagle 101 Need help? 18:23, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Dr. Maitland, The photo would have to be one open for free use. If it were your photo, you could release it for free use yourself, but otherwise, the licence would need to be known before it should be uploaded. It could be a professional photographer that took it and (s)he may own the rights to the photo. (BTW- The help needed tag you put in is one to use on your talk page, not on an article talk page.) Slavlin 18:31, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

oil well
I could only find an unbroken link to the norma zager muck-raker award at http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2004/06/la_press_club_a.php --MichelleInSanDiego 4/2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.36.39.78 (talk) 05:51, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Prom
I thought Beverly STILL has its' senior prom at the Bevelry Hilton. Is the prom now in some other hotel?Karmak

Prom is now held at the Sony Picture Studio backlot. Mrmanhattanproject

From what I have heard from a friend who was going to the prom, it has indeed moved from Beverly Hilton to the studio back lot of Sony. Not sure if this is only temporary or permanent-Brian

Athletics
I took out information about CIF playoffs, because I don't know what they are. I also think that we should only mention Varsity sports teams, because freshman football isn't that important. I also think we should limit the Varsity teams we put into the article to more popular sports like football, basketball, baseball, etc. Lacrosse isn't that popular of a sport.

Beverly Hills High School is not known for athletics. Karmak


 * CIF is, I believe, the California Intramural Federation. The material is encyclopedic, and I'm sure it's important to those who engage in the athletics. -Will Beback 19:43, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I find it very important to know what sports are offered at beverly. CIF if pretty big at beverly because as far as i know, nearly half of the sports offered qualify for CIF. Also, ALL the sports mentioned are varsity sports, There is not one team offered at beverly that is jv or frosh/soph without a varsity team. I believe the cif section shoudl be restored. Cyberslice22
 * All the sports offered at Beverly are already listed.   When it comes to mentioning how well a particular Beverly sports team did in CIF, if the 2006 Varsity football team won a CIF competition, then it would be worth mentioning.  The 2006 freshman football team is not worth mentioning.  It may be important to those kids on the freshman football team, but it does not belong in an encyclopedia.  We are not talking about college or professional sports.  Beverly is just a high school.  The freshman teams just aren't that important.Karmak


 * I agree that simply making the competition isn't particularly notable, but winning CIF competitions would be notable. Perhaps a booster can find out if this school has won any recently. -Will Beback 21:30, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Please stop adding Beverly Underground to the entry. It is non-school related, unlike Highlights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrmanhattanproject (talk • contribs)

Beverly Hills Underground Newspaper
What's the problem with the Beverly Hills Underground Newspaper Website? I looked at it and it seems well-written with a staff of at least several writers. Heck, it'd count as a reliable source. Why are we deleting it? -Will Beback 08:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Beverly Underground is a site written by teenagers still in high school. Everything is written by students but as far as i know, it is funded anonmously. I dont see why adding a link would hurt. I actually think it adds character to the kids at Beverly. I vote for putting it back on. -Cyberslice22

I am an alumni of Beverly Hills High School and from what I understand, Beverly Hills Underground is an independent newspaper that talks about the negative aspects of the school's faculty, programs, students, sports, etc. I have read a couple of articles and I find to be full of crap. A lot of these articles are simply not true, at least when I was there from 1999-2003. User name: Brian


 * I don't really see a problem with keeping the link. It's not a matter of taste, but whether or not it has relevence to the topic--which it most certainly does. --alex 01:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Not all this information belongs in wikipedia
I removed the information about the vending machines, and many of the details about the marching band. Why? Well we can't talk about every single vending machine in every high school in the United States. The only thing interesting about the marching band (that was in the article) is that it plays at Disneyland. But ALL high school marching bands play at high school football games! We don't need to put that in an encyclopedia!

I also would object to any information about high school clubs and any list of classes at Beverly, AP or not. Beverly is not the only school with AP classes!

We have to realize that an encyclopedia article should be written for people who are not connected to Beverly in anyway, because these people are the vast majority of the people using wikipedia! These people don't care about the vending machines, what specific classes Beverly offers, what clubs it has, or the fact that the marching band plays at football games, or the all the detail's about Joel Pressman's singing classes.


 * I disagree with this statment. The point of an encyclopedia is to provide as much information as possible. Listing the ap classes and clubs shows the diversity of Beverly and the type of school that it is. not all schools offer the amount of ap programs and clubs that beverly does. also, some parents want to learn more about a high school before sending them to it. mentioning the different programs can provide a parent with more information on making an educated decision.Cyberslice22


 * An encyclopedia is not supposed to have as much as possible! It is supposed to be limited to information worthy of being in an encyclopedia.  An encyclopedia article about the planet Earth, for example, does not put everything that could possibly be said about the earth into the article.  The same is true for an article about Napoleon, or anything else.  An encyclopedia article gives a general overview of the subject.  It does not tell you every bit of information known about the subject. Karmak


 * If parents want to learn more about this high school, they can call the school or look at the school's website. This article is not for the parents of students at Beverly. Karmak


 * Using the logic that "an encyclopedia article should have as much information as possible," if we are going to list all the AP classes at Beverly, we should also list ALL of Beverly's classes, to include more information, and because if we didn't include non-AP classes, we would be discriminating against students and parents who are not taking AP classes. In fact, all articles about any University or High School in Wikipedia should have the entire school's course catalog in its wikipedia article, using that logic.  This is flawed logic.Karmak

It wasn't my idea to put Beverly Underground in the article, but I do not object to it unless it really is true that it has a lot of factual errors, but not just because Beverly claims it has factual errors! We would need a source that is more NPOV than Beverly! It would be crazy to say that we cannot use a source of information about Beverly simply because Beverly does not approve of it!Karmak

Cyberslice22, you apparently do not know enough of the marching band. I was a member of the band for all four years and I've done a lot with the band. It wasn't just Disneyland that the band goes to. If you think that is the one special thing they do, then you are seriously misinformed. If you want me to list out what the band does, I will tell you. Blau

We have a responsibility to not put a spin on Beverly
The media (as I pointed out in the article) portrays Beverly as being absurly affluent. This is what the average person on Wikipedia (who is not connected to Beverly in any way) most likely thinks Beverly is like. This is why it is important to say in the article that the media's image of Beverly is quite absurd. But it is also important to note that while the media image is over the top, it is VERY true that a lot of people who go to Beverly have affluent parents, many of whom are well connected in the entertainment industry. The reason is obvious: there is a relatively high concentration of weathy people and people connected to the entertainment industry in Beverly Hills compared to most cities, and most of them send their children to the public schools in Beverly Hills. So there is some truth to the way the media portrays Beverly.

Beverly officials have been trying to pretend that Beverly is not an affluent school for years, but that is like trying to pretend that the Pope is not Catholic! In spite decades of the efforts by Beverly officials, the mainstream media will not let go of its absurd portrait of the high school and the city. But the portrait that Beverly officials try to paint is just as misleading! (It might be the truth, but it is not the whole truth! A lot of times it isn't the truth!)  In order to be NPOV, we need to take a middle ground between these extremes.

Karmak


 * Actually, speaking about Joel Pressman's choirs....... people from all over the country come to their concerts to see them perform, the same thing for their musicals.

Joel Pressman himself is famously known in Beverly Hills. He has worked with many great Artists, Taught many famous Alumni, in fact, he has performed on Broadway. He was a Beverly Alumni himself, and has been teaching at beverly for more than 35 years. He knows the most about the school's history. Also when the Monica Lewinsky scandal came out, he was falsely linked to her, saying that he had an affair with her while she was in his choir. Turned out that the media twisted the truth. She had an affair with the Technician man at the high school that worked at the musicals and the concerts at Beverly. But Monica was in Joel Pressman's Choir......... Pressman is a famous man in that place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yelena1372 (talk • contribs) 04:42, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

NPOV vs. "an NPOV" vs. "a NPOV"
Calling me a "tard" or a "dumbass" is not only against wikipedia rules, it is childish!

Now when it comes to NPOV, I, like many other people, use it as an adjective. I realize that it stand for Neutral Point of View, but I'm going to continue to use it as an adjective. If someone has a problem with it, then it is their problem and not mine!

Also, the person who thinks I'm a "tard" should understand than the phrase "an NPOV" is totally incorrect! "A NPOV" is correct because N is not a vowel. Anyway, you would be wise to not let yourself get so worked up and emotional over grammer! Just relax!

Karmak

How to sign a Wikipedia article
It'd be great if you guys could sign your comments correctly. Simply put four tildes [ ~ ~ ~ ~ ] after your comments, only without the spaces, and a normal signature, with the date, will appear. It would be much appreciated. Thanks! Moncrief 21:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Joel Stein references
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at your description of a Joel Stein humor piece as "non-fictional." So you're insisting that "it became clear that career day for Beverly Hills High School students is the lamest charity invented since the Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones wedding registry" is a non-fictional statement?


 * Everything published in the LA Times is non-fiction. It is a newspaper.  Opinions and editorials are non-fiction.Karmak 14:02, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not a matter of being "fictional" or "non-fictional." He's writing a HUMOROUS, SATIRICAL piece and including hyperbolic statements designed to amuse.


 * The statement was not a hyperbole. The statement was an analogy.  Stein thinks that both Career Day and the Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones wedding registry are equally unworthy charities.  If Career Day were abolished, Stein does not think it would hurt Beverly students anymore than it would hurt Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones if no one bought them anything for their wedding.Karmak 14:02, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

The Los Angeles Times's fact-checking process does not apply to humor columns in which no one is meant to take sentences such as the one above literally. (And, in fact, any signed editorial is implicitly the opinion of the person writing it and so isn't subjected to rigorous "fact checking" -- let alone a satirical piece. Oh, heavens.)


 * Signed editorials are still subjected to fact checking because even opinion articles contain factual claims. When Stein claimed he went to Beverly asked him to speak for Career Day, he was stating a fact, not an opinion.  Even though Stein signed the editorial, the newspaper published it and a publisher has a responsibility to check the facts of what it publishes.  The newspaper could be sued for libel if something was said that was untrue EVEN in a signed opinion column!  For example, if Stein lied and claimed that he saw the principle molesting children, Stein's column would be slanderous, and both Stein and the newspaper publishing the column could be sued.  Likewise, a book publisher could be sued for publishing an opinion book that makes slanderous statements, even if the author signs the book.  "Oh heavens!"Karmak 14:02, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

There isn't any reason to include three quotes from one satirical editorial in a factual description of a high school. Have your fun over the weekend -- I'll be away -- and then we'll sort this out in Requests for Comment when I return. Moncrief 14:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


 * First, we aren't including three quotes. Second, it is okay to quote the opinion of somebody in a factual article, as long as it is made clear that it is the person's opinion.  When you quote someone, you are making the factual claim that the person really did say (or write) what you are claiming he said or wrote.  News articles on the front page of a newspaper which are not editorials virtually ALWAYS contain quotes that are not facts but that are somebody's opinion.  It is good journalism to do so!  Karmak 15:50, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Slander and Libel
Moncrief (and anyone else who is interested) should read the wiki article on Libel.

This articles makes it clear that even an opinion could be considered libelous. A newspaper would have to make sure all of Stein's opinions are "fair comments." That means that his opinions must be opinions that a reasonable person could have, even if they are biased against someone or something.

So if Stein said "In my opinion, the princple is molesting children in his office" without any other facts to back it up, this would be slander because a reasonable person would not think the princple is molesting children unless A LOT of evidence was provided to him. If Stein had made such a claim, and the paper failed to remove it, both Stein and the paper could be sued for libel.

It is ABSOLUETLY a "fair comment" when Stein claims that Career Day is the lamest chairity since the Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones wedding registry because of his opinion that the students demonstated that they were already well versed in journalism, on air presence, etc. based upon the questions they asked him. along with Steins FACTUAL claim that he at one point gave advice to a student about wheter to go work at "daddy's production company" as a producer or as an executive.

The reason it is a "fair comment" is because the average reasonable person would not find it hard to believe that students at Beverly Hills High School already know a lot about media and that many of them have parents who own production companies and that many of the students are very affluent. Most reasonable people who aren't connected to Beverly believe the image of absurd affluence. Stein's column did not misrepresent the school, he didn't say that robots were serving coffee to students, and his opinion of Beverly is a very reasonable opinion to have.

A good NPOV article presents multiple reasonable perspectives of something. I don't think it is possible to truely be objective, but by presenting multiple reasonable persepectives, we can come closer to objectivity. Stein's perspective of Beverly is not unique -- a lot of people have written articles over the years with the similar perspectives. Some are more melodramic, like an article about rampant cocaine abuse and 3 sucides at Beverly published in the mid 80s. I can probably find that article, but Slien's article is less melodramtic and is far more recent. Therefore I think quoting Stein's reasonable opinions about Beverly help make this article balanced and NPOV. Karmak 16:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

No, Karmak, a GOOD NPOV article doesn't mention anything about ANYONE's OPINION. INCLUDING THAT OF Joel Stein.


 * You are plain wrong about this. Look up the article on wikipedia itself.  The article presents many opinions that certain people have about wikipedia, some of them are not positive opinions, some are.  The article is considered NPOV.  A lot of articles contain opinions, and opposing opinions.  As long as it is made clear (usually with quotes) that it is an opinion.  Karmak 17:35, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

''The student body is heavily Jewish. Indeed, even a majority of the Iranian-Americans at Beverly are Jewish. (who the hell writes like this?)''


 * I personally did not write that.Karmak 18:13, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

''Typically, the media portrays Beverly Hills High School's students as absurdly affluent. For example, the fictional version of Beverly in the film version of The Beverly Hillbillies, robots serve students gourmet coffee in the hallways.''

A fictitious reference from a movie from the forties. Good thinking, genius. Perhaps you can find a modern reference, or no reference at all!


 * Uh, you should look up the Beverly Hillbillies movie on IMDB.com. It was made in the 1990s.  There is no need to personally attack me with sarcastic statments like "Good thinking, genius," especially when you do not know what you are talking about!Karmak 17:35, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

'' According to the 2000 cencus, the median income for a household in Beverly Hills is $70,945, typical for an upper-middle class suburb. 56.6% of the population in Beverly Hills are renters. The median household income for renters is $48,179, which is just slightly above average for the entire United States. The median household income for an owner-occupied housing unit is $125,707. ''

Leave the above in then, since you found the 2000 census.
 * I didn't take it out!Karmak 17:35, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

''There is no doubt that many Beverly students are wealthy. In his May 30, 2006 column, nationally syndicated writer Joel Stein described Beverly's student body as "some of the richest children in the nation." Stein wrote that while he was speaking to Beverly's students "it became clear that career day for Beverly Hills High School students is the lamest charity invented since the Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones wedding registry." [3]''

Joel Stein, yeah right. Attending Career day for a couple hours at Beverly Hills High School does not qualify him as an expert of BHHS' students' economic state. Take this out. It's his opinion, and violates the NPOV principle.

You simply have no right to determine what is good journalism or not. ANY ARTICLE on WIKIPEDIA adheres to the zen of fact support. Joel Stein isn't support by facts, it is his opinion. You don't need a degree in communications to figure that out. 17:35, 11 June 2006 (UTC) Mrmanhattanproject 17:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * As I said above, even the article on wikipedia has people's opinions. This article also has a quote from Beverly's website, expressing Beverly's opinion that it has a "nationally reconized performing arts program."  That is just Beverly's opinion, but it is not an unreasonable opinion!    It is good to quote official Beverly sources as well.  But we can't limit our sources of information about Beverly to just official Beverly sources!  That would be too POV! Karmak

Sample Wikipedia articles with opinions
Notice how many opinions (some that are in quotation form, and some that are not) are presented in the wikipedia article. Look at the different opinions that are presented in the evolution article. Or the Scientology article. The list is endless.

Wiki articles often present pro and con positions on many things, like evolution. Presenting many opinions gets you closer to objectivity, and NPOV.Karmak 18:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

To the person who keeps vandalizing this article just to personally insult me:
You keep vandalizing this page to claim that I'm "a faggot with no life."

Consider this:


 * This is the first time I've looked at this article since June 21! In that amount of time, you have spent quite a bit of time vandalizing this article over and over again just to insult me!  You must have a lot of time on your hands to do this!


 * Vandalizing an article over and over again accomplishes nothing because every time you vandalize, somebody immediately reverts the article. So what you are doing is totally unproductive!


 * What you are doing is counterproductive! Do you think that you are making any friends by vandalizing this page just to insult me?  You don't even know me!  You are very emotionally immature and you are proving it with you're numerous vandalisms!

'People who live in glass houses should not throw stones! You need to get a life and stop vandalizing this page just to insult me!'  Karmak 18:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Personal insults are not necessary and they are against wikipedia policies! The same is true of vandalism!

You need to stop being a nazi and placing moronic assumptions in the article. The MAN 17:31, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Joel Stein, again
Karmak or whatever your name is, why is it so important to you that someone who visited the campus for three hours and wrote a humor piece in the LA Times be considered the authoritative voice on the student body of Beverly Hills High School? Can you please answer that question for us? Moncrief 03:53, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Karmak, look to the upper-left corner of Wikipedia.com. Tell me what is says... That's right, free encyclopedia. And what is the purpose of an encyclopedia? Toughie, huh?
 * INFORM, without PROSELTYZING.Collegian 19:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The column written by Stein is not in essence a humor piece, Stein sometimes describes things in a humorous way; a fact can be stated in a humorous way! It is a fact that somebody asked him if he should work at his father's production company as a producer or a directional executive in one of the two assemblies!  Steins opinion column is non-fcition and the LA times does have to check the facts even in opinion columns.  See the article on libel.


 * As I'm sure you noticed, FrancisTyers, who is an admistrator on wikipedia that has been watching this article and who understands wikipedia policy, reverted Collegian's attempt to remove the Stein quote. Karmak


 * KARMAK: please answer the question above. Why is it so important to you that someone who visited the campus for three hours and worte a piece in the LA Times be considered the authoratative voice on the student body of Beverly Hills High School?  His column is the best evidence you can provide for your assertions??  Moncrief 04:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * In this situation we are presenting a POV quotation attributed to a presumably notable critic. All of that would be fine, except I don't think that Stein's opinion about the school is notable. Similarly, if he said in a column that he likes In-N-Out burgers we wouldn't include that opinion in our article about the chain. His views, and his anecdote, belong in our article about him. We can certainly include criticisms from sources who are notable on the topic. -Will Beback 07:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Who do you guys think would qualify as an expert on Bevery's student body. People who work for the school or the school district are too POV.  What would qualify someone as an expert on Beverly's student body?  The Stein quote does prove that there are people who's parents are connected to the entertainment industry.  If you looked at the articles on many of the notable alumni, you'd see that many of them are children of celebrities.  But Stein's article is recent.  Nobody has written a book on Beverly Hills High School's student body as far as I know, and there aren't that many "experts."  I am not sure if there are any experts on Beverly's student body!  I don't know anybody who is "notable on the topic" of Beverly's student body!  It's just not that important of a topic!  Karmak


 * If there are no notable or reliable sources on a topic then the proper choice isn't to use non-notable or unreliable sources. The answer is to remain silent. Very few high school articles seek to characterize their student bodies beyond bare demographics just because there are so few suitable sources. One of the few that I know of had a long WSJ article specifically about its student body, including hard data carefully collected and vetted, not the funny anecdote of a columnist. -Will Beback 08:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Will, would you say that Beverly Hills High School is a rather unique high school? I would!  In fact, somebody actually did write a book about Beverly students in the 1980s, but of course that is outdated now!  How many other high school have had so many movies, TV Show, and even cartoons based on it (or it's fiction twin, West Beverly?)  The burden of proof is on YOU to find a US high school with a higher media profile!  Can you think of ANY high school in the United Stated. public or private, that has been featured in as many TV shows, movies, etc. as Beverly Hills high school?  Also I disagree that Joel Stein in an unsuitable source!  It really doesn't take a lot to realize that a lot of people at Beverly are wealthy.  Stein was simply reporting an event hat actually happened!  If you think Beverly is just like every other high school in the middle of Kansas, they you are wrong!  Karmak 08:08, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Will. Very well said. It's nice to have some rational editors here. Moncrief 21:55, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Karmak, I don't think anyone is disputing that there are children of celebrities and entertainment types who go to Beverly. A look at the list of alumni is all you need to confirm this.  That fact isn't in dispute; what's in dispute is your using a humor column written from someone who visited the campus for a few hours as evidence of your assertion.  You don't include quotes willy-nilly in an article without reason to do so.  It's not necessary to include Stein's comments; the fact that entertainment industry kids attend Beverly stands on its own without this quote.  Moncrief 21:59, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The truth is, I'm trying to be fair to Beverly. I was the one who pointed out that the media portrays the student body as absurdly affluent, but there is some truth to the steoreotype!  And most of the people who read about Beverly Hillls high school are intrested in the entertainment connections and the wealth of the school!  That's a reality!  I'm not trying to make Beverly look bad!  I'm trying to be balanced!  Also, I don't think the fact that "entertainment industry kids attend Beverly stands on its own" without mentioning it in the article!  That's like saying we shouldn't say that Hitler was a nazi, because that should be obvious to anybody who read the article on Hitler!  Karmak 08:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Stupid people love to make dramatic Hitler analogies. Listen Karmak, nobody is disputing that various students of Beverly Hills High School come from rich, entertainment industry parents. What we are disputing is the nature in which you have been trying to present that information. Like (to use your lame Hitler anology) if someone wanted to start Hitler's wiki-page by stating straight off, "Adolf Hitler was a filthy, murderous Nazi pig and a poor artist," it wouldn't necessarily be INCORRECT, but, it would be irresponsible. Our duty is to responsibly and correctly present opinions as opinions and facts as facts. What you did (as indirectly as possible) was present quotes from an outside opinion article as evidence to support YOUR OWN opinion. By writing, "[Joel Stein] observed that 'from their questions, it was obvious that these kids already knew about the intricacies of journalism, television writing, publicity and on-air work. I was basically giving guidance about whether to work for daddy's production company as a producer or as a development executive.'", you have subtly manipulated language to serve your own opinion of the validity of what HE wrote of the school's student body. You even (subtly) left out a coma before inserting the quote. Anyway, that's why I altered your submission using more responsible language: "Stein was asked to speak at Beverly Hills High School's 2006 "Career Day", and noted in his article, 'from their questions, it was obvious that these kids...'", etc...... Stop trying to be clever, Karmak. It doesn't suit you.... And BY THE WAY... For your information: Most of the rich kids at Beverly aren't industry babies. For the most part, industryites send their kids off to private schools like Crossroads or Harvard Westlake. Beverly kids (the ones that live in North Beverly Hills and come from a lot of money, as opposed to the basically middle class kids who live in South Beverly Hills and share a similar zip code) are usually children of doctors, lawyers, rich business owners, etc. Every once in a while your meet a kid of a famous actor/producer/director/singer, but it's usually not like that. Get your facts/issues straight man. Boldy1 01:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Let's see... I graduated from Beverly in the mid 1990s, and when I graduated I was a part of an elite 10%: People who stayed in the Beverly Hills School System from K-12!  There are quite a few Persian students.  And it is true than most of us do not come from the entertainment industry, it is amazing how many do in comparison to every other city in the world!  In the mid 1990s most persians would drive BMWs to school, so nobody else drove BMWs because they didn't want people to think that they were Persian.  The vast majority of the students were Jewish.  We were very apathetic toward our sports team, and just about any other school sponsored social event, with the sole exception of the senior prom:  Prom was a very big deal.  I don't think too much has changed.


 * When somebody asks where you're from, what do you tell them? I proudly tell people that I'm from Beverly Hills! So why are so many people from Beverly Hills embarrassed to say so?  Is it because people have a tendancy to assume that you're super rich, and sometimes act jealous of you?  Maybe it is because some people want you to tell them about all the celebrities you know, when you really don't know that many.  I do experience all of these things from people, (I admit it may be really lame when some German tourist is trying to get you to tell him about all the celebrities you know), but when you aren't afraid to say that you are from Beverly Hills, you gain respect!  Karmak 23:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * When somebody asks where you're from, what do you tell them? I proudly tell people that I'm from Beverly Hills! So why are so many people from Beverly Hills embarrassed to say so?  Is it because people have a tendancy to assume that you're super rich, and sometimes act jealous of you?

So you want people to be flattered by yourproud spirit of Beverly Hills High School? NPOV is not hard to understand, Karmak.
 * I understand the NPOV policy, and I understand that Leahy is an expert on the topic and therefore his opinion can be quoted. What I don't understand is you.  How do you flatter somebody with their proud spirit of the high school?  I did not even express my proud spirit for this school, I said I proudly tell people the name of city I came from, as many people do! Karmak

German Tourist? What are you even talking about? Neutral point of view, read it and apply it to this article.
 * The neutral point of view policy applies to the article itself, not the discussion page! I'm not going to write about German tourists in the article!Karmak

You may have the given ability to revert edits, over and over again. Others are reverting your edits, to uphold a NPOV, not to dictate what others should believe and view the school as; you certainly have the right to do that on your myspace, Karmak.

Quoting Boldy: ''Our duty is to responsibly and correctly present opinions as opinions and facts as facts. What you did (as indirectly as possible) was present quotes from an outside opinion article as evidence to support YOUR OWN opinion. '' CH1 02:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Tell me, what do you think my opinion is? How did I use quotes from Leahy book to support that opinion that you think I have?  Karmak 03:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * And certainly stupid people who like to imitate Karmak are floating around on this page. Evidently, you clone, read what's above you illiterate ****shit. NO JOEL STEIN REFERENCES! I don't understand, you admins, stop reverting the fucking edits. Its as NPOV as before if you leave them in.JAveline 15:38, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * What are you even talking about? Boldy1 05:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Beverly was not a "Den of Hedonism!" in the 80s. That's Leahy's point!
''What Leahy found was that in spite of the media's portrait, Beverly was not a den of hedonism. Leahy observed that "Social attitudes and mores appear to be nearly identical to those found in the middle-class high schools of the Los Angeles Basin and the San Fernando Valley -- the evidence of drug and alcohol use no more or less high, the discussion of sex and birth control equally as obsessive." Leahy wrote "It did not take long during my conversations with Beverly students before I understood that their world was nothing like the one I had imagined from casually observing teenage behavior in malls and at rock concerts. After that initial shock, the task became to listen to students long and carefully enough until I adequately understood the panorama of life at Beverly."''

Users and viewers of wikipedia would appreciate if you, Karmak, would discontinue using information and text in violation of the Neutral Point Of' View policy that has been firmly rooted in the Wikipedia establishment.

Much like your hap-hazardly placed Joel Stein reference, this quote from Leahy warrants scrutiny, as it his opinion, a concept, it seems, that you have not grasped. If you read the discussion section, other users have agreed that a poignant analysis of the student affluence by the individual Joel Stein is unecessary in the article, as it is the closed unfactual observation of Mr. Stein alone. Not only does Leahy's pessimism portray Beverly in the same light Stein had, this, was written two decades ago. I know you would agree that in two decades, our cultural landscape has shifted dramatically. Conclusively, Leahy's book is inaccurate to serve as a placeholder for an entirely new section.

Your authority from graduating and attending Beverly Hills High school is very important, and valuable to this article. However, should other graduates and or current students be afforded the privilege of incorporating their personal experiences and or retrospective viewpoints, which changes from person to person, this article, and Wikipedia all over, wouldn't be as engaging for anyone, be they are a prospective student or not, to make a personal recollection of their own. A vanilla flavored article, for a lack of a better term, Mr. Karmak, suffices those who are knowledge famished or simply curious as to why Beverly Hills High School should be explored and understood further. Exploring Beverly Hills High School's nooks and cranies, its idosyncracies, and the nit picks which makes any High School experience complete, is up to him or her to personally dive in to, without Wikipedia's guiding hand.


 * What you don't seem to understand is that I just pointed my personal viewpoints here on the talk page. Not in the article!  It is approiate to talk about the history of Beverly in this article, because the history of the school is sub-topic of the school itself.  I wouldn't mind more historical information.  This section now very clearly points out that this study was done in the 1980s.  But he we do have somebody who qualifies as an "expert" on Beverly Hills High School students in the 1980s.  He spent nealy a year or more doing the research, and as somebody who has published a book on this subject, he is somebody is indeed "notable" on the topic of Beverly Hills High School's students in the 1980s.  Therefore it is okay to put quotations from him.  And frankly, the quotations are quite NPOV.  Karmak

I look forward to your understanding of this matter. CH1 02:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protection
Obviously, this page has been vandalized over and over from somebody who posts annonymously with multople IP address and sockpuppers. This person should read wikipedia's policy about sockpuppets WP:Sock and realize that it is against the rules to sign on with a different username after someone has blocked you from posting indefinately.

The majority of his sockpuppets have been banned indefinately, and most of his other have been disiplined. The semi-protection policy may not fix the problem, but it stop his annonymous use of IP addresses and will help us to identify his sockpuppets if he comes back.Karmak 19:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if you realize this or not, but vandalism is a blockable offense even without sock puppets :)--Frip1000 19:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure I understand that! The reason why his other usernames were blocked was related to vandalism. Karmak 05:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That's good idea to semi-protect this page because this article(Beverly Hills High School)has been vandalized many times. But I can't protect this page from vandal because I'm not admin. If I am Admin, I would protect this page. Even It's about school articles. *~Daniel~* ☎ 05:29, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Sock Puppets; Let 'em Hang!
User:CH1 Was blocked indefinately for being a sockpuppet. Karmak


 * Your comments are riddled with spelling errors, "indefinately" (ouch!) being only the most recent. So much for the academic excellence of BHHS, I guess. Moncrief 20:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Moncrief my friend, I never claimed that the high school you or I went to was "academically exellent." But hey, nice to see you man!  At least you aren't that SMC drop-out boy who is REALLY making Beverly look bad.  Karmak 02:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

1980s Section removed
Tripod website unverifiable. Who is the authority on the source as to what Happened in 1980s?

Not from the book, cannot be seen as fact or fiction.StarFAX 18:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * BTW, Karmak, stop thinking this is your own page.

there should be a section on the large number of students who dont live in beverly hills and dont pay any kind of tax nor give any money to support the school, and still burden the school in classrooms, student rankings, vehicle traffic etc. maybe include how any incentive to live in beverly hills where a hard working parent looks for good schools is totally obliterated by the fact that almost anyone can come and attend the school, despite living half a world away?-JK Pole
 * True, but if you can find a reputable source, it should definitely go in.TOYOTA COROLLA OUTFITTED WITH A FERRARI V12 20:29, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

captain crunch section removed
Self-promotion of a non-notable club. Hey, Kiwanis deserves more recognition than, what, Captain crunch club? Please... Wikipedia ain't for advertising, kid.JointDefense 19:50, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Faculty
Under Alumni it is stated "many famous people have taught at the school". Could we have a list of them?

Confusion over Lenny Kravitz and Slash
The article claims Lenny Kravitz attended the school, but the Fairfax High School article also claims him as an old boy. He could of course have gone to both, but the Lenny Kravitz article says he went to Beverly with Slash_%28musician%29, and the Farfax High article also lists Slash as an alumni. So it seems highly improbable that they both went to both high schools. Could someone please clarify which school they actually attended? Palefire 04:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure about Fairfax High School, but according to the trivia section of Slash's biography on imdb.com Slash "attended Beverly Hills High School with Lenny Kravitz in the early 1980s, but did not graduate."  Slash's bio also says that he dropped out in the 11th grade, but the bio says nothing about Fairfax High School.  The imdb biography for Lenny Kravitz says that Lenny graduated from Beverly in 1982, and does not say anything about Fairfax High either.    I think it is safe to list both Lenny and Slash as former students, but perhaps it could be noted that Slash dropped out. Kathartic 02:08, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

They both may have attended both high schools since Fairfax High School services an area of Los Angeles on the eastern edge of Beverly Hills. It should be clarified especially since they could not have attended both. Causepowered (talk) 11:55, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Previous Land
I believe this sentence about the school being built on the former site of the BH Speedway doesn't warrant its own section. It's a detail that could easily be inserted in the opening few paragraphs -- perhaps after the mention of the original buildings being designed by Farquhar.Dr. Maitland (talk) 00:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * One: Only use the helpme template on user talk pages


 * Two: Probably so. It dosen't deserve it's own section.  -- FastLizard4  (Talk•Index•Sign) 01:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * (ec) Hello, the template is not really meant for content questions.... Your above comments seem legitimate, and common practice allows you to go ahead and make the changes. You can either wait for some input from involved editors here (and if no one comments in a few days take that to mean no one objects), or you can make the change now and see if anyone objects. Your talk page contains a message with helpful info if you need help editing. I hope this helps; if not, respond on my talk page. Regards.-- 12 N oo n  2¢ 01:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Academics
I think the section on "Academics" says nothing and should either be expanded or removed.Dr. Maitland (talk) 23:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I just removed it, intending to wait and see if anyone objects.Dr. Maitland (talk) 23:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

School demographics
To save editors from having to go through the whole referenced article, here is the relevant section: "About 17% of the 2,362 students at the school are of Asian extraction, about 4% are Latino and about 5% are African American. Nearly 70% of the students are white, a category that includes 450 students of Persian descent." So to say that the school is 70% Persian is a faulty conclusion. --Manway (talk) 20:17, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * as of 2011, the average of 2,500 students that attend Beverly, more than 1,200 are Persian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yelena1372 (talk • contribs) 04:46, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

What happened to Rival section?
I was wondering what happened to the Rival section in the info box listing Beverly HS rivals Culver City HS? The sources are still clearly cited at the bottom for reference, but the line in the info box is gone. Thanks. I think as the famous rivalry goes back over 50 years it is relevant to have it listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Causepowered (talk • contribs) 16:11, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed that once again someone is playing with with Beverly page. Please replace the rival section to the info box citing Beverly and Culver. This is one of the legendary Westside rivals and is certainly worth noting here. The insertion was cited twice with valid news reference. Solidzz (talk) 13:33, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Pictures
Could someone please add more pictures? I found one from WikiCommons (of the gym), but surely a student or teacher/staff member could take pictures of the main buildings and playground?Zigzig20s (talk) 11:44, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * There is now a picture of the main buildings thanks to User:Toglenn.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Pool in gym
The article currently states:


 * In many movies, including Clueless, Real Women Have Curves, Whatever It Takes, The Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer, and It's a Wonderful Life, both of which featured a scene in Beverly's unique "Swim Gym," perhaps the only gymnasium that has a basketball court that can split open to reveal a recreational-sized, 25 yd swimming pool.

Which two are the "both" films that feature the Swim Gym? I know that It's a Wonderful Life and Whatever It Takes did, but it's not clear which films the sentence is referring to. Did The Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer also show the pool in the gym? The sentence should be clarified to indicate which films are being listed as depicting the pool in the gym. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 23:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

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External links modified
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Why is Alicia Silverstone not listed among the alumni?
Why is Alicia Silverstone not listed among the alumni? Katerinci (talk) 23:08, 5 October 2023 (UTC)