Talk:Beverly Park (amusement park)

Educational Project Page
This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(Autumn,_2021) The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipedia requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student User names are: Limelightangel (talk) 15:14, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * LIUCJurre05
 * LIUCIlaria05
 * LiucLUCA05
 * Matteteo02
 * LIUCfederica05
 * LIUCLisa05
 * LIUCImane05

Useful historical sources on the topic
There is a range of useful information on this topic that can be sourced using Google Books. In addition to Jay Jennings' book, there are others that document the park, including one by Lisa Taylor in 2021. There are also issues of the original Billboard Magazines from the 1950s, which include useful content/facts that can be sourced to them, and may have the potential for images use, if copyright is cleared for use. Finally, the same source, Google Books, shows a number of occurrences of the park in popular fiction, including books by Hartman et. al., Carrie White, Andrew McAleer, and Bruce Kimmel. While not useful for reliable facts, they evidence the impact of the park in popular culture, and would be a useful part of a broader section on this sub-topic. Another potential source, from a UK national newsper, may also be useful, but check the guidelines on news sources: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2968062/Photos-reveal-former-LA-theme-park-inspired-Walt-create-Disneyland-frequented-Hollywood-royalty-Errol-Flynn.html  Limelightangel (talk) 17:17, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Topic relationship to existing pages
Note that Kiddieland was a number of different amusement parks, based on a franchise. There is an existing page on one of these, in Illinois, at Kiddieland_Amusement_Park. Note the issues with this page, flagged up in the article banner, and clearly differentiate your topic content from both this page, and the broader topic of the Kiddieland franchise.Limelightangel (talk) 17:21, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 * This is indeed very handy to keep in mind. Especially the notes on top of the page show us what we'll have to be mindful of when filling the page with content. Thanks! LIUCJurre05 (talk) 11:20, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * the link to the Illiois page is a useful link out, perhaps as a See Also link Limelightangel (talk) 14:22, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

External sources
In this section you can find some sources that will not be the most reliable, but will still support the page.

https://rcdb.com/5621.htm | This source contains a list of the rides that could be found in the park. The website is called Roller Coaster DataBase. LIUCJurre05 (talk) 11:30, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

https://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/remembering-beverly-park/ | This page contains a lot of 'vintage' pictures from Beverly Park that we could use. LIUCJurre05 (talk) 11:36, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

http://www-sre.wu.ac.at/neurus/braun.pdf | Page 36 of this pdf contains information about the reason why Amusement Parks like the Kiddieland declined. LIUCLisa05 (talk) 12:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiddieland_Amusement_Park | This wikipedia page contains images of the gallery LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 14:45, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

https://www.kcet.org/history-society/beverly-park-and-ponyland-the-kiddieland-that-inspired-walt-disney | This could be hard to write objectively about, but could also be a very interesting paragraph for the page. LIUCJurre05 (talk) 11:45, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

https://books.google.it/books?id=Uw0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA50&dq=beverly+park+kiddieland&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxlPGo2djzAhX0SvEDHcN6CdUQ6AF6BAgJEAI#v=onepage&q=beverly%20park%20kiddieland&f=false Page 50 contains information about how Beverly Park worked. Articles about Beverly Park and its owner can be found on this page by selecting key words. LIUCfederica05 (talk) 11:50, 20 October 2021

https://www.mouseplanet.com/11073/Fifteen_Inspirations_for_Disneyland__Part_Two contains information about Kiddieland, while https://la.curbed.com/maps/amusement-theme-parks-los-angeles-history-lost-map contains another film directed there. LIUCfederica05 (talk) 19.38, 20 October 2021

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2968062/Photos-reveal-former-LA-theme-park-inspired-Walt-create-Disneyland-frequented-Hollywood-royalty-Errol-Flynn.html | An article from the Daily Mail about Kiddieland, could contain some information not seen in other articles

https://dashboard.wikiedu.org/ Helped the team to have a better knowledge of Wikipedia. Matteteo02 (talk) 14.56, 09 November 2021

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar/Discussioni/Mappa_OSM_per_infobox Helped me to upload the interactive map in the info box and also to create the chart for the rides. Matteteo02 (talk) 17.30, 09 November 2021

Adding a new section
I added a section to the 'to the closure' part of the page. I think the spelling and grammar is fine so far, but feel free to check again and rewrite if you see any mistakes!--LIUCJurre05 (talk) 09:18, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

I've added the section "Rides" under "Amenities", if you're not okay with this then we can talk about it. --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 15:23, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

I have added the section "Geography" with a part about the Location and an other about the features. I will complete it with more details. Let me no if there's a mistake. --LIUCImane05 (talk) 14:37, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

I've created the section "Guest Book", which I think it's similar to the "Birthday Book" one. Let me know whether you think it's a good choice or not. --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 15:26, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * it's a good idea for me! LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 15:30, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Number of attractions
I've got a doubt about the number of attractions. You've written that they were 10 but I've found on different pages that they were 12, can you check your source? --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 13:50, 23 October 2021 (UTC) Good morning, I too have discovered that the attractions in the park were not 10. I took a look at this web site https://rcdb.com/5621.htm LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 14:45, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Adding an introduction
I've added a brief introduction. Look at it and modify it if you think it doesn't work. --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 15:08, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Grammar and few suggestions
I've made a few adjustments to introduce new sources and made some corrections. Feel free to change anything that looks/sounds wrong. Also I was thinking of changing the initial title "from the beginning" to "from the opening". It relates more to second one "to the closure". What do you think? LIUCLisa05 (talk) 15:50, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that's absolutely fine for me LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 16:21, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree with you Lisa. I've got a question, is it correct that only three sections are written in bold? However, I've found another source of information. https://whimsicalwill.tripod.com/BeverlyPark4.html  --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 18:33, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I corrected the wiki markup, now they shouldn't be in bold in the content box anymore. LIUCLisa05 (talk) 07:23, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm fixing the grammar in some parts of the draft. [[User: liucLUCA05 (talk) 16:42, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Structure
What do you think about deleting the section "features of the park" under the title Geography? I think it's in conflict with the following section "Amenities". Please, let me know. LIUCLisa05 (talk) 07:26, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think that's a good idea. --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 09:08, 2nd November 2021 (UTC)

I added a table to help the view of the rides, with a better description of them. Let me know if you agree. Matteteo02(talk) 14:43, 09 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Good work! I like it. --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 21:50, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

I've just seen it Matteo, i belive it's going to be a plus to our project. I've seen that the chart is missing two descriptions. I'll add them. liucLUCA05(talk) 14:51, 09 November 2021 (UTC)
 * If you can, try to find a description of the ride used in Beverly Park Kiddieland, and not of a generic one. Thank you! LIUCLisa05 (talk) 13:53, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Do we want to repeat the name of the roller coaster in the template again or can we just delete it? LIUCIlaria05(talk) 15:12, 09 November 2021 (UTC) I think we can delete it. Matteteo02 (talk) 15:40, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

What if we move the interactive map from where it's now to the section "The Kiddieland Site in the present day"? I don't like where it is positioned now.--LIUCfederica05 (talk) 13.09, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's better because 1) it can't be actually positioned in the infobox since the template for amusement parks doesn't allow it and 2) The section "The Kiddieland Site in the present day" fits best with the idea of the map and 3) moving it allows to have more space at the top of the page where it could get crowded because of the presence of other two pictures. LIUCLisa05 (talk) 14:37, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed. See my suggestions for restructuring the History section, under Draft review 15/11/21 Limelightangel (talk) 14:20, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect use of sources
I don't know who has put Facebook as an external link. I don't think we can do this, can we? --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 17:18, 3rd November 2021 (UTC) I added the Facebook page .. I thought it was right to post it in the external links. I will try to take a look at other Wikipedia pages to see if it works or not. I’m going to delete it for now. LIUCIlariaa05 (talk) 17:35, 3rd November 2021 (UTC)

Adding a section about Bradley and Kaye Company
I've found a page which describes the history of Bradley & Kaye company. It's a long article and I was wondering if we can add a section about Bradley's company or if we stray too far from the main theme. --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 14:50, 7th November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it could be interesting. I'm not sure it would be "accepted" though. We could ask the professor on Tuesday. LIUCLisa05 (talk) 09:08, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Pictures
I have added pictures : one to present the location of Los Angeles in California and one to present the San fernando Valley in the History Section. Feel free to tell me if it is good for you. --LIUCImane05 (talk) 22:36, 8 November 2021 (UTC) I’ve just updated the right picture of the map. Let me know if is good enough or not. Thank you. it. Matteteo02 (talk) 16:13, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it works. --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 21:50, 09 November 2021 (UTC)

I’ve uploaded the interactive map of our place. Let me know if you like it. Matteteo02 (talk) 17:28, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That's perfect, thank you! --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 21:50, 09 November 2021 (UTC)

I’ve uploaded the right picture of the Map of Beverly Park with the right name and the right point in the map. Luca also helped me with it. Let us know if is good or not. --Matteteo02 (talk) 15:43, 17 November 2021 (UTC) As Matteo said, we improved the picture structure, let us know what you think. liucLUCA05 (talk) 15:50, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Internal Links
I linked Ponyland and other important characters from our draft page to an external site that doesn't exist yet, but if I'm not mistaken the professor said it's okay to have the word highlighted in red because someone else could create a wikipedia page on that specific topic. LIUCIlaria05(talk) 14:33, 09 November 2021 (UTC)

Removing Beverly Center image
Since the professor said the Beverly Center photo could be removed, do we need to delete it before sending the draft page? let me know LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 15:30, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think it should be removed. Let's wait and see if all agree with us but in my opinion you can delete it. --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 15:36, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think we should delete it as well, if we want to add it later we can always choose to do so. LIUCJurre05 (talk) 14:44, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

okay grazie! LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 15:39, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Renaming sections
Ciao raga, I think we should rethink the title of the part 'To the closure' it doesn't feel like correct English each time I read it. I would suggest naming it something like 'Until closure', or something else if there are any better suggestions of course. Let me know what you think!LIUCJurre05 (talk) 09:45, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was thinking about adding a small section between "from the opening" and "to the closure", maybe something referred to the operating days. It's just because in this way the structure will be more proportioned and also because I think that much of text has been written in "from the opening", even if it shouldn't. I know that Lisa is fine with this. If you all agree, then maybe we should change the names of those two sections and add a new small one to please everyone. --LIUCfederica05 (talk) 16.26, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

I am fine with dividing the "opening" section into a subsection on the days of operation of the Park, but I still believe that the title of the "at closing" section is consistent with the initial "from the opening" section.LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 16.32, 11 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I think that, at the end, the History subsections' titles "from the opening", "operating years/days" and "to the closure" give a nice overview of what we actually wrote in the paragraphs. I think they are appropriate for what we are trying to communicate. If you have suggestion about different titles we can talk about it in our meeting tomorrow. LIUCLisa05 (talk) 17:16, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Moving references
Someone outside our group moved the "references" above the "external links", but I remember the professor said that the "references" should be at the bottom of the draft page ... shall we change it? Let me know what you think LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 12.21, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * If you check other wikipedia pages, the external links are actually the last section of the article so I think they moved it in the right place.LIUCLisa05 (talk) 17:05, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi Ilaria, I think we can talk with mr. Walker about this tomorrow. By the way I did “my” changes for the new draft page and i added the new format for the photo gallery. Matteteo02 (talk) 15:29, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Structure of the Talk Page
Should we decide how to rearrange and rewrite this talk page? I thought we could use a subsection in the discussion section whenever we talk about a different topic or problem. Maybe we can just call the subsection "problem number 1", it's just a suggestion, let me know what you think .. LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 09:53, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I think we should do it. By the way I changed the picture of Beverly Park because the old one had the name “Kiddieland” on it. Matteteo02 (talk) 10:39, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

I just finished editing the structure of our talk page, let me know what you think and feel free to change it at any time! LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 10:59, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's better now. It's easier to navigate and much clearer as to what is discussed where. Thanks! LIUCJurre05 (talk) 10:02, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It's way nicer now, thank you! LIUCLisa05 (talk) 10:35, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

It's good! [[User: liucLUCA05 (talk) 16:38, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Draft Review 27/10/21

 * Infobox: needs more information/exhibit/logoLimelightangel (talk) 08:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Page needs an introductory paragraph, defining the topic and it's notability. Limelightangel (talk) 08:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Page needs maps and images. Limelightangel (talk) 08:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Page needs sections on External Links and See Also Limelightangel (talk) 08:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Structure: the section on Remembering Beverly Park could go as a sub-section in Popular CultureLimelightangel (talk) 08:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * There are inconsistencies in grammar (e.g. 'amusement park', 'Amusement Park') and in the name used for the topic in the text. Limelightangel (talk) 08:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Geography section needs renaming. Limelightangel (talk) 08:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Linking out: there is a lack of content that would enable links out to obvious existing pages e.g. Los Angeles, etc.Limelightangel (talk) 08:07, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your review, it's extremely helpful! LIUCLisa05 (talk) 16:50, 30 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much, we will try to implement your suggestions! LIUCfederica05 (talk) 21:35, 1st November 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much, we did almost all of your requests. Let us know if there is something else. Matteteo02 (talk) 17.34, 09 November 2021 (UTC)

Draft Review 15/11/21
I've added a short description for each link in the See Also section LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 16:42, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * See Also content need to be actual links to existing pages, but not to links already used in the text. See Manual_of_Style/Layout.


 * references: minor error in ref.15 'Painter • •,'


 * images: there are now a number of acceptable images to use on this page. Consider how best to incorporate them in terms of relationship to the existing text/sections, format/size, in text or in gallery, and relevant captions.  See Manual of Style/Captions and Manual of Style/Images.


 * introduction: the sentence related to divorced dads is not introductory, but could be used later in the article e.g. in history.


 * links out: there are a few examples of 'over linking' e.g. 'bankrupt', 'co-owners', 'toolmaker', etc. See Manual_of_Style/Linking.


 * structure (for discussion): The History section could be better structured with the following sub-sections: Origins i.e. up TO the opening period (including Bradley's earlier experiences, and perhaps the origins of the Kiddieland concept from the intro., etc.); Beverly Park in it's prime/main period; and, Decline and Closure.


 * structure: consider a section or subsection on Marketing and Publicity, and copy in to this the text about Billboard mag, and the 2 existing sections on the birthday and guest books. This could be a discrete section on the page, or a sub-section under the History section on Beverly Park in its prime.
 * I have added the section on Marketing and Publicity. LIUCLisa05 (talk) 17:24, 15 November 2021 (UTC)


 * style: use the correct and consistent formats for currency ('3$') and dates (1940s v 50s). See Manual of Style/Dates and numbers.


 * incorporate the error corrects from the author Jay Jennings i.e. "mention the fact that the park was also affectionately referred to as "Kiddieland" by parents and children alike, but not call it Beverly Park Kiddieland throughout the entire article.  His book, which is now in its 3rd printing, was changed to, "Beverly Park: L.A.'s Kiddieland, 1943-74. It is not called "Beverly Park: The Kiddieland that Inspired Walt Disney" anymore. So you should use the updated title. Under Amenities: Restaurants & Food Stands. None of that first part is accurate and the source is incorrect as well. (16 source, The Re-Birth of Post Flaneur) - "Beverly Park Kiddieland contained a range of restaurants. These included: a Tiny Naylor's drive-in restaurant, (themed on the space-age The Jetsons 1960s TV series, with roller-skating waitresses ) and a Tiki restaurant".  None of that is true or ever existed. It should simply be erased from your info. The next paragraph about hot dogs and popcorn and the rest is okay. The Kiddieland Site in Present Day, you just need to remove that bit about Tiny Naylors and Tiki restaurant, as none of that is true."

Limelightangel (talk) 14:11, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Talk page: tidy up and edit this page, with clear sections, and not a long 'discussion section'. Try to check off and respond to comments here.

This is our old draft page, we have created a new one, called: "Beverly Park (Amusement Park)", there you could probably see some more updated changes. By the way, thank you very much for the review, we will try to take advantage of all the advice you have given us! LIUCIlaria05 (talk) 15:21, 15 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your suggestions! We'll check the page and correct all the mistakes. LIUCfederica05 (talk) 09:45, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Ttu46y 174.95.152.128 (talk) 02:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)