Talk:Beyond the Frontier: Dreadnaught

Corroborative
Wikipedia is a corroborative website. You can't just come in and erase everyone else's work and put in your own. You're supposed to add, append, and edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheTrueChAoS (talk • contribs) 05:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Plot introductions are no longer used anymore in most articles. Furthermore such a long plot introduction violates WP:Plot and is unnecessary since there is already a series article that contains that information.  Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 15:28, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually there is no mention of it in the assigned link, and this series is separate from the lost fleet series as it isn't about the syndicate governments anymore. You could easily pickup this series and read it separately from the lost fleet series and it doesn't make sense to tie it in with the previous series of books because most poignantly his fleet isn't lost anymore. In fact its been pretty well found. Evidently none of this matter's in his magistrates endless swath of Wikipedia's knowledge, and you know exactly how all of wikipedia should be constructed even though every single book in the LF series has a plot intro and I was merely following precedent. Enjoy your wiki power grab I'm sure it gratifies you mightily oh editor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheTrueChAoS (talk • contribs) 14:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * First, this series is a continuation of the Lost Fleet series despite whatever the main enemy is in the book. Events in the new series begin only a month after the first ends.  Various references of the first series are also made throughout the book, making it difficult for someone new to the series to simply come in and start reading from this novel.  Second, the "Lost Fleet" tag still appears on the title of the book, it is hard to ignore it, regardless of whether it is lost or found in the book itself.  Third, calm down.  I have wrote most of the articles involving the Lost Fleet series, so don't act like this is some sort of power grab by me.  In fact I have been planning on revising those articles and your overreaction has convinced me to do it sooner rather than later.  Your attitude is the one that has to change, not mine.  I will work with you, in fact I invite collaboration due to the demands of real life, but personal attacks are not welcomed on wikipedia.  I explained my reasoning from removing your text while citing wiki policy.  Also see Other stuff exists to see why your argument about plot introductions in the other articles is invalid.  (EDIT: Also looking back at the 6 other articles, only 2 actually had plot intros, so there is no precedent)  Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 17:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Your link doesn't say anything specific about anything in these articles. I believe a plot summary is extremely important to the beginning of this new series of books in order to give the reader background on what has already occurred. If we assume everyone has already read all the books, than what is the point of the Wikipedia article? Why do we need to write about it, or include it at all if everyone already knows the information. Every single book had an uncompleted plot introduction. Most saying they immediately followed the preceding book. You're attitude of I'm right and you are wrong is what has to change. I was merely trying to contribute after sitting down and reading the book some of my knowledge of the book. It took me about a half hour to write that out, the next thing I knew, you deleted everything I contributed and copied over it with your own article. Wikipedia is not about your own feeble attempts at fame. Its about a corroborative group of people coming together and passing on information to others that might be useful. I don't see how my contribution hurts the article, and I certainly could see how removing it could disadvantage the average Wikipedia user. So please, stop being so concerned for your pride and little power maneuvers and facilitate the expansion of knowledge available in this Wikipedia article instead of your totalitarian pronouncement of what is right and wrong.
 * Your continued personal attacks against me are getting us nowhere. I have cited relevant wikipedia guidelines to defend my actions, which you have ignored.  No matter how much time you spent on something, if it does not belong on wikipedia it will be removed.  There has been discussions on several places concerning whether plot introductions are necessary and the consensus is that they are not needed.  I suggest working more on filling in the plot summaries of articles instead of wasting time accusing me of things that are not true.  Again, if people need to learn more about the books they can see the series article, we do not need to sumarize the entire series each time we write an article on each novel.  Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 20:34, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

There is nothing in those links that support your position. I have a stack of college degrees, I can cite really well too. I could stroll in an ocean of information but it wouldn't help me much unless I carefully depicted what information I was bringing to the discussion. HEY LOOK AT THIS RESEARCH ARTICLE THAT IS 10 PAGES LONG, MY POINT IS IN THERE, I'M JUST NOT TELLING YOU WHERE!

We're trying to get past your ego and do something good for the community. This article is reverted to reduce the size of the plot summary and to weed out useless details at the request of other WIKI users. At the same time we're putting the plot introduction back in because its an important primer for the rest of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.217.198.150 (talk) 20:48, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What other wiki users? Another wiki user actually reverted back to my version before I could.  The policies I cite clearly state my position, the fact that you fail to understand them is not my problem.  Plot introductions do not belong.  Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 20:52, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Plot summary is too long
Another issue with this article is that the written plot summary is too long. Just like in the article for the original series this summary is also extremely long. I tried to follow the suggestion of other users whenever I created it, it was very short and general. Now the plot summary includes details which aren't needed, and on top of that it spoils the book for those who want to see a summary instead of read it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.217.198.150 (talk) 20:08, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * See Spoiler. We don't remove information for fear of "spoiling" the book.  Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 20:36, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

In that is the problem itself, you put in things that are useless to the reader of the article but spoil the plot for the user. It is not important for the reader of this article to know that the fleet saved 333 people from an asteroid. it lengthens the article, and removes suspense from the story. Yet you graciously include it despite the fact that every tag at the top of every book article on the lost fleet series says the information is too long and detailed. Useless to the reader. Its pretty clear you've never had to edit before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.217.198.150 (talk) 20:41, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

First, cut out the personal attacks. I do not need to defend myself to you or anyone else. Second, I am willing to discuss changes to the plot summary, as long as they are constructive. You feel that including the number of humans is unnecessary, fine, as a gesture of good will I will remove it. But the plot summary sumarizes the plot and is not written in the way to avoid spoilers. Do you have any other suggestions? Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 20:46, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Ontop of the previous the information about midway is just flat wrong. It didn't make him rethink why the alliance was sending him into the enigma territory. His goal had nothing to do with the hypernet gates, and everything to do with making contact and peace. Either you are connecting two ideas wrongly, or they are improperly put onto the page. TheTrueChAoS (talk) 20:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Learning of the device from the Syndics caused Geary to question again why the Alliance sent him here without telling about this tech, since without it the fleet would have had to go by jumps only and that would have taken a very long time. Throughout the book it is implied that someone in the Alliance wants something to happen to this fleet, even the jacket mentions it being a "suicide mission".  Read the section of the book again if you do not believe me, it is there.  Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 21:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)