Talk:Bib Fortuna/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 12:41, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Sorry to see this languishing for so long - I'm happy to take a look, but, as it's a longer article, m review may be a little bitty! Josh Milburn (talk) 12:41, 10 April 2020 (UTC)


 * It strikes me as a bit odd to talk about applying the Fortuna outfit before you've specified who portrays him - honestly, I'd expect actors to be named in the opening paragraph!
 * I've seen it this way in other fictional character articles so I may have based it on that. It's basically because I thought of the creation of the costume as part of the "Conception and creation" of the character, which it seems to me goes before the portrayals. Also, the costume was designed chronologically before the actor played the character, so it made sense to me in that regard too. That being said, I can move the portrayal up if you feel strongly, and if you don't think it will mess up the structure of the article? — Hunter Kahn 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should have been clearer. I absolutely agree with your structuring of the article; I am talking specifically about the lead. Compare Luke Skywalker - Hamill's name appears in the second sentence. Josh Milburn (talk) 13:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I personally think it makes more sense to have Hamill's name that high in that article because the actor is so synonymous with the character, whereas with Bib Fortuna that's not really the case. However, I did rework the lead a bit so that the creators and actors are now in the second paragraph, which I think gets the info higher up without disrupting the flow of the lead. Does this work for you? — Hunter Kahn 13:42, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think there are some issues with tenses in the article. My understanding is the fictional events should be presented in the present tense (unless they happen before or after the actual appearances of the character). I made some changes in the lead, but haven't touched the biography section; could you take a look at this?
 * You are correct. I went through and fixed some of those tense issues. — Hunter Kahn 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * "Fortuna had the monks remove Secura's brain before his body can be thrown to the rancor" I've not changed this as I suspect this will all need to be changed (per above), but this doesn't work!
 * I tried rewriting, let me know if it's any better. The gist of what I'm trying to convey is: Fortuna had the guy's brain taken out, and then later Jabba threw his brainless body into the rancor, which ate it. lol — Hunter Kahn 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Clearer now! Josh Milburn (talk) 13:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * "Carter wore lifts on his feet to make himself taller, as well as arm extensions,[53] and as claw-like finger extensions,[66][53] which were fit through fingerless gloves that Tippett said gave Fortuna "a spidery reach".[65]" Needs revisiting.
 * I took a shot at rewriting. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Good. Josh Milburn (talk) 13:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * "Carter down other similar roles because he said" turned?
 * Yup, added the missing word. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I wonder if it is worth giving Matthew Wood his own section in the appearances section, and then just have a couple of lines for other portrayals?
 * Done. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes - I think that looks much better! Josh Milburn (talk) 13:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * "and actor Rainn Wilson jokingly tweeted that he would like to play Fortuna in a stand-alone Star Wars spinoff film.[115]" Fun, but if we don't have a secondary source, I don't think it warrants inclusion.
 * The closest I've found to a reliable secondary source is this. Do you think this is enough of an RS to cite? If so I'll add the ref; if not I'll remove the Rainn Wilson sentence. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think that crosses the bar - I'd just drop it. Josh Milburn (talk) 13:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Dropped. :) — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 13:42, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "which was available only as an exclusive at FAO Schwarz." Ref?
 * I can't seem to find what source I had previously identified for that information. It's not a super crucial detail anuyway, so I've removed it. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * "A rare encapsulated Bib Fortuna action figure that will be included in an auction in Pennsylvania in November 2019 is expected to seek between $10,000 and $75,000.[147]" Update?
 * Unfortunately I don't think there have been any follow-up stories about how much it actually fetched. :( I did change the tenses to past rather than present though, now that this date has passed. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * A few more (free!) images wouldn't go amiss.
 * I'll take a look at what else can be added. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Other than that, it reads very well - please double-check my edits.

A first quick very look at the references:
 * Something is going on with the Looper reference. Check the external link.
 * Oops yeah, lol, fixed that. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * REf 61, "Alinger 2016, p. 187" - link is broken, presumably because the book has multiple authors.
 * Fixed this. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

But I need to look more closely.

Stopping there for now. Josh Milburn (talk) 14:03, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks ! — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 15:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey, just wanted to check where this one stood? — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:15, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, sorry; I've just not found as much time for Wikipedia as I sometimes do recently. I've got some free time this weekend, so I'll hopefully get to this then. Josh Milburn (talk) 07:29, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * A few quick replies above - looking now at images and sources. Josh Milburn (talk) 13:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Images:
 * File:Bib Fortuna (screenshot).jpg The rationale here needs fixing - you've got some "NAs" where there should be text.
 * Oops yeah, sorry, this image was there before I worked on the article. I've added more rationale text. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * We have File:Michael Stackpole by Gage Skidmore.jpg and File:Darko Macan 260408.jpg]; they are the authors of a comic book that features Fortuna. I'm certainly not insisting, but they may be worth adding.
 * I'm leaning toward excluding them, since I don't discuss those orders in any depth in the article... — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

And sources:
 * The Chris Fuller source... I don't think student newspapers really cross the line in terms of reliability. It's not sourcing anything controversial, though, so if you want it there...
 * I removed it, since it wasn't sourcing anything that wasn't already cited by other reliable sources. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Dark Horse Comics is a publisher, not a publication - it should not be italicised.
 * Fixed. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Page number for the McGovern source?
 * Bah, I am having trouble locating my copy now. Damn it. LOL I will try to find it and add the page number. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "Reid, Georgina (January 11, 2001). "I was a monster hit but it's so good to be a human again". The Sun. p. 6." Ah, bad news - The Sun is out. (See WP:THESUN.) I think that's all going to have to go unless other sources can be identified.
 * Fortunately the majority of information that came from that source was also attributable to other sources. I've removed the citation tags, as well as whatever info came solely from the Sun source... — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Page numbers for the Kingsport Times-News source?
 * I got that article from NewsBank. Most NewsBank entries have the page number as well as the publication and date it ran, but some do not, and this one didn't. So I don't have a page number to add, unfortunately. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * (I know some editors get concerned about extensive quotation in references... But I can't see there being too much of an issue here.)
 * Page numbers for the Tim Martin source?
 * Like the above, the NewsBank entry had no page number. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "Note: The Daily Telegraph has released multiple versions of its list of the best Star Wars character, and the rankings are different each time. To avoid confusion, this article simply states that Bib Fortuna was included on the newspaper's list, without including a ranking." I don't really like this self reference. Could you not just list them separately?
 * I think I can just remove this note altogether without negatively affecting anything (which I've done). — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The Swardson source: You don't italicise StarWars.com, but you do elsewhere.
 * Fixed. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Page number for Las Vegas Weekly?
 * Like the above, the NewsBank entry had no page number. — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think there are a few borderline sources that might create a headache at FAC - Bleeding Cool, Fox News, some very small local newspapers. But don't worry about them now.

Other than The Sun and the the tweet, none of these sourcing comments are anything like deal-breakers - they're more just things to help along the way to FAC, where I hope this is headed. If you do not want to make any of these changes, the only things that need to be looked at are the replies above, The Sun, and the non-free image rationale. Josh Milburn (talk) 14:33, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Pinging in case this was missed. I am still a little oversubscribed on Wikipedia, so definitely no rush from my end. Josh Milburn (talk) 16:21, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry, I did indeed miss this! lol I will get to it either today or tomorrow at the latest. Thanks! — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 18:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I got it all,, but let me know if you have anything more. Thanks! — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 21:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks - there are a couple of replies above that you may have missed. Josh Milburn (talk) 07:12, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I got them all now, but let me know if I missed any. Thanks ! — <b style="color:#C0C0C0">Hunter</b> <b style="color:#595454">Kahn</b> 13:42, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Great; promoting now. Really fantastic work on this. I do hope you'll pursue FA status. Josh Milburn (talk) 16:17, 5 May 2020 (UTC)