Talk:Bichon Frisé/Archive 1

March 2006 cleanup (inappropriate tone)
I felt that this article used inappropriate tone for an encyclopædia. Sentences as an example of this:
 * "Bichons are intelligent little dogs and demonstrate an inquisitive personality"
 * "They also seem to be quite stubborn so be prepared for a lot of patience whilst dealing with a Bichon!"

Sean Hayford O&#39;Leary 05:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Greyhound facts
Greyhounds aren't listed as hypoallergenic. I think if one wants to give examples of hypoallergenic breeds, then choose breeds which are actually listed as such on wiki (the list is on the hypoallergenic dog breeds article). --Pharaoh Hound 19:45, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Plagiarism
A large amount of the article seems to be ripped from http://doggiewoggie.com/dog-breeds/bichon-frise/. Spencerk 04:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope, look at the bottom of that page, they took it from Wikipedia... "Source: Wikipedia under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License." :) EEPROM Eagle 06:41, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Small clean-up
A few parts of inappropriate tone are still in this article. For example: "They can be seriously (almost worshipfully) devoted to their masters". I've changed this sentence so that it is more appropriate in tone. I've also removed the size comparison to cats, and simply left it at "small". Pharaoh Hound 22:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Plagiarism
The content in the "Appearance" section was copied and pasted from []. I reverted to previous edit of that section. CrashingWave 05:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Temperament
I do not like the Temperament section too much. It just seems so obviously written by a fan/owner of this breed. Something like "definitely has a mind of its own" is something every dog-owner would say about his pet and does not sound objective to me. If not replaced by something with an objective comparison to other breeds, I would rather see that section deleted.
 * It's also very POV and case-specific. I agree with your statement that it should be removed, I'm just not brave enough to do it because I know very little about the subject and some of it may be salvageable. I'm not holding out too much hope, mind. Bobo. 21:25, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hard to say how much to edit out or redit. Some quotes:


 * "Adaptable, happy, bold, lively..." "the ultimate companion dog, (and) game and hardy" "vivacious and affectionate breed".
 * "Adaptable, happy, bold, lively..." "the ultimate companion dog, (and) game and hardy" "vivacious and affectionate breed".


 * "Happy, lively,...friendly and outgoing and likes to be the center of attention".
 * "Happy, lively,...friendly and outgoing and likes to be the center of attention".


 * This book rates dogs on comparative scales from 1 to 10; it rates BFs as 10 on ease of housebreaking and 7 on ease of obedience training, which seems to contradict some of what's in article; 9 on demand for affection, 7 on excitability and general activity level, and about in the middle on destructiveness and playfulness.
 * Elf | Talk 21:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Elf | Talk 21:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I am almost certain that I have read that the Bichon Frisé used to be known as "Tenerife", due to the fact that it originates from Tenerife, one of the Canary Islands. I shall look into this matter and see what sources I can find. Also, it should be noted that my Buster is the cutest of all Bichon Frisés ;) --TheFinalFraek 09:48, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up some of the phrasing in the Temperament section and dropped some of the opinion, but left most of it essentially the same. I am not a Bichon expert, so can't say how much of it is generally true. The section really needs a complete rewrite with references. Kelly Cassidy 21:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Spam?
Why was Bichons Across Canada removed as blatant spam? It looks like an informative site to me? - Mgm|(talk) 11:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * See user Canbichon's contribs, user Canadian Bichon Frise's contribs and the policies and guidelines cited in the notices posted on their talk pages.  — Athænara   ✉  11:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Be patient with this dog and be sure to spend time with her each day. She needs to be part of the family and should not be left home alone. Great companion and wonderful with kids, even as infants.Robnmag (talk) 03:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)robnmag

Photos
Do we really need a picture of two dog butts in this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manys (talk • contribs) 07:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

History
I found and added various articles as references to support some of the historical info. It still needs more, but the notice at the top says the section does not have "any" references. Perhaps it should be changed to "some" now that there's a couple in there. I'm not sure if that's an administrative function, or how that works. --Einna (talk) 22:31, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Extinction?
The article Havanese says that the Bichon Tenerife is extinct. This article says that the breed was merely renamed to Bichon Frise. Which is correct? - Brian Kendig (talk) 21:14, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

More about the breed's character
Someone took out a bit on the fact that the Bichon can be a stubborn SOB - I think it should go back in in some form. This is not the type of thing that you can have perfect citations for, since its just plain fact that the Bichon Frise breed can have quite a stubborn character. From my experience they are also very patient dogs. Jeez if you wanted to split hairs you could claim the whole temperament bit is debatable. Its like asking for citations proving the dogs hair is white - it just is! The fact is that most people who look at this page will want to know about the breed, more needs to be put in about its character. Who cares what year Napoleon bought one or whatever? We're talking about a type of dog here that instead of running and catching a stick, steals the stick and runs away until you catch it. They're cheeky little sons of ******! --Simonski 14:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

And you can't catch it they are one of the fastest breed of a dog my friend is a track star and will be a college defensive back and I put my bichon on a very long leash and pulled him all the way back and had them race, and he beat my friend by the full length of the leash and my friend said he ran as fast as he possibly could. They are also quick and change direction faster than you know it. And they are extremely stubborn if there is something you don't want them to do they will do it just to piss you off. They are definitely characters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.61.194 (talk) 20:55, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

They're really not the "fetching" sort. They were supposedly bred as ratting dogs on Spanish ships, which would explain the whole attacking-the-stick-and-running-away-with-it thing. I would add this on the "history" section, but I really don't have anything to back it up.--Einna (talk) 22:34, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Largest Bichon Frise
''The largest recorded Bichon Frise stood at 7ft at the shoulder, yet weighed a seemingly paltry 7lbs 4oz. Proud owner Michael Gambon ate the creature at a RSPCA exhibition in Falkirk.''

Is this true? I reverted it thinking it wasn't, but the anon user added it back. I did find a source using google, but it's only one, and it's from uk.answers.yahoo.com. Does that count as a verifiable source? The thing is, it says the same exact thing from the source. Could it have been plagiarized? Mokoniki | talk 13:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That is so totes vandalism. Common sense. Nellie Kane (talk) 17:44, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Biased tone
"The Bichon was brought to the United States in 1955 and was recognized by the American Kennel Club in 1973. These cute little dogs are loved by all." Well butter my bottem and call me a muppet if that's not a tad biased. I know it's not that huge, but shouldn't that be changed?
 * Okay now, after looking at the whole article, it seriously needs to be gutted and fixed. Almost the whole article is in a un-encyclopedic tone!! Man, you can even see where someone came in and added miscellanious biased crap. granitefox 13:47, December 2006 (UTC)


 * the tone of this article is a goddamn disgrace, thanks 82.155.134.195 (talk) 17:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your observation. I agree the tone of the article is less than perfect, and I'll make some edits myself, but whenever you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to go ahead and make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). — Satori Son 18:47, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the copy paste speech bro. 63.245.174.45 (talk) 04:44, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Bias is not the proper term. But its not very encyclopedic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.61.194 (talk) 20:48, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

"Loved by all"... HAHAHAHA. Yeah that definitely needed to be changed. I hate these fucking ankle biting yapping retards.Clamum (talk) 05:42, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Alas for the acute accent
Somehow I find it unbearably annoying that everyone writing in English has decided to lose the acute accent off of frisé. For years and years, seeing "frise," I thought the pronunciation must be /friːz/ (i.e., same as "freeze").

Common sense says that if you want to convey the true pronunciation /friˈze/ in French, or /friːˈzeɪ/ in English, you have to use the acute accent. Can't the accent be added to the word in this article? At least in one or two places, so as not to mislead readers who may never have heard it pronounced aloud? Spare them the embarrassment of going around saying "bichon freez"? I mean, I just don't get it. Other French loanwords in English, like café or blasé, get the accent at least once in a while. I just do not get the total aversion to using any accents at all. Is it simple laziness, or was it a deliberate decision by some Anglophone official dog body to avoid the accent?

If it must be so, (sigh) and this is a lost cause, why not at least give the IPA pronunciation in the lead, help readers to have a clue? Nellie Kane (talk) 17:57, 11 January 2011 (UTC)


 * According to the Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, "freez" is the first listed pronunciation of the breed's name. (the Collins English Dictionary uses the accent-free spelling, but only recognizes the "free-zay" pronunciation. It's the second listing at the link). The Merriam-Webster dictionary also uses the accent-free spelling with the French pronunciation.  Further, all of the recognized groups (including the English language edition of the Fédération Cynologique Internationale, the umbrella kennel club in Belgium) recognize the spelling without the accent. It's not laziness, it's simply following what reliable sources indicate, and all of the reliable sources use the spelling without the acute accent. I have added the IPA data for both pronunciations, as noted in the Random House Webster's listing at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bichon+frise.  Horologium  (talk) 01:43, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Somebody with more editing skills than mine needs to address the etymology. Without the accent, it is like a cheval de frise, only smaller. The etymology does not work without the accent.

If you need to drop the accent, the explanation needs to add that it has been suppressed. Otherwise how can you say that it is French for "small white curly-haired lapdog?" And where do you get the "white" in that derivation anyway?

72.94.96.107 (talk) 23:12, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Toy Breed???
Since when did the Bichon Frise become a Toy Breed? Most toy breeds are under 10 pounds, the Bichon Frise is over 10 pounds. I'm removing that its a toy breed until someone can prove it is.

Terribly sorry. I should have realized that some groups might consider it a toy breed, so please excuse my comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mokoniki (talk • contribs) 15:20, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm, yes the breed is not exactly clearly defined. I propose a new breed: "Ankle Biter", to cover this and similar dogs under say 15 (this can be changed, perhaps lower a couple pounds) pounds. Perhaps use the Latin term for "Ankle Biter" so it sounds science-y, or even "Interficias Me". Clamum (talk) 05:49, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

The Bichon Frise is a Toy Breed in the UK http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/display.aspx?id=6148 MarpoHarks (talk) 19:53, 1 July 2014 (UTC)