Talk:Biens mal acquis

moving away from strict translation
will attempt to clarify the confusion about the TI lawsuit. I now believe it's essentially the same case brought in different venues, not sure if these constitute appeals, although the last, successful, case was in a court of cassation so it at least likely was. Elinruby (talk) 01:55, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Also, in case I don't get to it, this needs to be added under France: http://www.france24.com/fr/20160628-biens-mal-acquis-rifaat-oncle-bachar-al-assad-mis-examen-justice-francaise-syrie -- uncle of Bassar al-Assad has been erm, indicted is the equivalent I believe, on essentially the same rationale; that he has about ten times more assets than he can justify based on income/gifts Elinruby (talk) 01:55, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

hello this is a *translation*
To the person who flagged this for style: Sure.

They have different ideas about tone over at fr.wikipedia and beyond wikipedia, even academic texts on scholarly topics do stray from the neutral/objective tone that is more usual in English. Especially on obscure topics like that year that the Ottoman navy commandeered the port of Marseilles in the year 13-whatever. The author will probably have an opinion and a hero in the history he is telling, whether it is Charlemagne or the Bey of something, etc, So ya. The style of the article is not that encyclopedic at the moment and yes, it would be good to correct this.

More importantly though, the French wikipedia article does not seem to give citations for these court cases, or perhaps I missed them. I am going to work on this article tonight and will check on this. But this is an article about litigation and it would be nice to know oh, a docket number would be good. The name of the lower court judges and the "Parquet employee" who repeatedly squashed these suits also, and maybe a quote from him, which surely exists somewhere, about his rationale for doing so. It is not clear to me whether this litigation is one case that went through all the rungs of the appeals process just to get its toe into the lower court, or a series of suits that Transparency International has filed, and if the latter, exactly who the plaintiffs were in each lawsuit. Some of my sources say that Ossébi was a party to the lawsuit and others that he reported on it as a journalist. Either way the Congolese media do seem to take as a given that he died because of the French lawsuit. There also do seem to be parallel legal theories developing here; the cases in Switzerland, Portugal and Spain seem to be pertinent. It would be interesting to know whether the legal systems in those countries established a similar legal precedent in post-Nazi restitution after the collaborating government fell. It would be especially nice to have help with this part as my Spanish is rudimentary and my Portugese non-existent.

Also, to explain what I said about titles: the French legal system is fairly different from the one in the US or the US and for example, this narrative frequently mentions a "juge d'instruction", whose function is somewhat analogous perhaps to the US grand jury in that he investigates allegations and refers cases to the lower courts if he decides that criminal charges are warranted. I have translated this as "examining magistrate", as I recall, because I saw this translation on a British judicial archive. But I am not entirely sure what an examining magistrate does in the UK system; this needs to be checked. Also the English-language versions of some of the French government agencies. If the french government translates "juge d'instruction" differently when it writes in English, then their wording of the title is the official wording and is what the translation should be, whether or not I think that "examining magistrate" is, offhand, not a bad summary of this judge's role in the legal proceedings. Similarly, the sources refer to the "Parquet" which I have translated, loosely, as "prosecutor". But this is only somewhat true -- see comments on "juge d'instruction" above. As I currently understand it, the Parquet is an office of the French Justice Department (or equivalent) which provides the lawyer who presents the prosecution case if charges are brought as a result of the investigation of the "juge d'instruction". A barrister who speaks for the government kinda, maybe? Parquet is not flooring in this instance though; it's a name like the White House or Foggy Bottom or the Elysée. Oh and I am pretty sure that the list of seized assets needs the latest seizure announcements added.

Also, about that standing comment I made. Yes, standing is to some extent an issue, but not the one I thought. I was thinking that the court was saying that TI wasn't Congolese and since the Congolese plaintiff had died, however suspiciously... that is what I thought the issue was. Apparently though, it was about none of the plaintiffs being French (?) The Court of Cassation, where this issue was decided, is definitely the court of last appeal for the French judiciary,

Please feel free to help if you can. Elinruby (talk) 07:04, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Illicit profits in World War II
There is a very brief section (3 sentences, currently) on the history of this topic in World War II France. Here are some sources that could be used to expand this:
 * Verheyde (2008) – lots of footnotes, and links to other sources
 * SAEF (2012)
 * Archives of Paris
 * Ordinance of 18 October 1944

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathglot (talk • contribs) 23:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)