Talk:Big Apple

Work in progress
Obviously this article still needs work and more references, but I think I've gone some way to cleaning it up today - it deserves a better page than this, given that absolutely everyone knows that NYC is the Big Apple!Cpaaoi (talk) 21:17, 4 May 2017 (UTC) Something that is not explained in the article is why were racing prizes known as Big Apples?! One mystery replaced by another!Cpaaoi (talk) 21:19, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Spanish Theory
I removed the Spanish theory because, it simply isn't plausible. Its a nice thought, though. It is in the same vein as the name "Julius" coming from "Aneius"-simply no proof to it aside from an interesting coincidence.

Here's my own personal theory, which    I didn't put up because I don't give it any more credit than that one. New York City was most likely named for the abundance of apples grown in the area, and state in general. If New York is seen as an apple state-which it is-the biggest city would surely be the "Big Apple." Jmw0000 20:01, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

What was the 'Spanish theory' that you removed? I'm curious, because I heard (some 50 years ago) that the name was a mis-translation of the Spanish nickname for Los Angeles (Gran manzana). Manzana means 'block of houses' as well as 'apple', in Spanish (etymology unknown). mfc (talk) 13:10, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * See here: . But there was probably not a large Spanish-speaking community in NYC at that time. — Soap — 08:13, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Buenos Aires
I think "Big Apple" is also a nickname for Buenos Aires (it is so called e.g. in the musical Evita). If someone can confirm this, please mention this in this article. -- 195.33.105.17 10:03, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Not unplausible considering "Big Apple" and "Buenos Aires" share first initials...a theme sometimes used in regional slang. --Furrykef 23:11, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * A nice theory, but in fact Andrew Lloyd Webber just made it up because he liked the way it sounded.--Pharos 01:01, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

It would be strange for the people of Buenos Aires to derive their nickname from engligsh. "La Gran Manzana" is the spanish translation for "The Big Apple".
 * The Big Apple is an English nickname and is not used in Spanish AFAIK. So it wouldn't be strange.


 * I suspect Webber - or rather Rice - used "Big Apple" for Buenos Aires slightly ironically - or perhaps just to help people understand the importance of the place. I have removed the reference to Buenos Aires from the article - it had been there since July. -- Beardo 14:51, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

What about this theory?
See the full hoax at http://salwen.com/apple.html


 * Read what the good Mr. Popik has to say on the matter: .--Pharos 06:14, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

One Reference?
Barry Popik here. It appears that someone, on June 10th, added one reference. This is strange--not even Gerald Cohen's "Big Apple" book is cited here, so why this one reference about a citation taken way out of context? And if you must cite this, why not David Shulman's (see Wikipedia) mention in the NY Times a year earlier, or my website (that contains the full passage)? 1 February 1989, New York Times, "About New York" by Douglas Martin, "Etymologically, 'The Big Apple' Ages 18 Years," pg. B1: "My files and notes on Big Apple trace the name all the way back to 1909," Mr. Shulman said. ... http://www.barrypopik.com/article/58/edward-martin-metaphor-1909

Popularity of the nickname
Should there be some mention of the fact that this term is never, ever, never used by New Yorkers or anyone in the metro area to refer to the city? The article notes that it gained popularity in the 70s because of a promotional campaign, but maybe there should be clarification that this popularity did consist of actual usage by those in the New York area.


 * I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I've lived in the NYC area my entire life, went to school in the city, and currently live in Jersey. I use it, and I know may others that do as well, almost always when talking about NYC's uniqueness and amazing scope. --oknazevad 19:26, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Image
I removed Image:Bigapple.jpg as I don't think it contributes very much to the article; it seemed to place itself as if it were a notable work of art, but further exploration struck my initial thought. Thoughts? ~ PseudoSudo 03:24, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Fitz Gerald's name
The name of John Fitz Gerald, the New York sportswriter who is the first known writer to use the term, is "John Fitz Gerald". It is not "John Fitzgerald". It's unclear why "fixing" this has become such a habit. Look at any of his old columns--there's no question about how it is spelled. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 166.84.1.2 (talk) 02:39, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Apple Store
Maybe it's just me, but I really don't think a reference to Apple Stores has ANYTHING to do with this topic, and it totally out of place. Apple did not name it's company or stores because they are in NYC. Their name came from the Apple that supposedly hit Newton in the head. Placing reference to the Apple store's in this article certainly makes a great advertisement, almost like product placement, but offers no further insight into the Big Apple's name. Anyway, I think it should be removed, and will do so in the future if it's not removed or a reasonable explanation is given as to why it should be included. And those are my two cents. Brainscar 04:21, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree, I'm taking it out! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.55.162.248 (talk) 01:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Bugs Bunny ???
I think we should remove the part about Bugs Bunny. This is completely unrelated and out of place. Having references to certain important books or movies, I can understand. But that? It is only an anectode and a bad one. Thanks

Preceding unsigned comment by Sosigène (talk) 15:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Edward S. Martin
I heard, that in Edward S. Martins book The Wayfarer in New York (1909) there is a mention of "big apple". 78.53.45.182 (talk) 17:23, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, in the introduction, it's called the "big apple", perched on a branch of the Mississippi valley, because it takes a lot of the "national sap". See here. Who is like God? (talk) 06:02, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

the term "Big Apple" existed long before the 1920's
The term either originated in Cleveland OH, Buffalo NY or Albany NY during the Ohio and Erie Canal days (between 1825-1850). When explaining to a person where their goods were going a series of apples would be laid out to represent the different stops along the canal and New York was the final destination, which was represented by the largest Apple: "The Big Apple." Therefore, when traders made it to New York via the Erie Canal they would say they made it to the Big Apple.

By the End of the Canal days New York was always refered to as the "Big Apple" by people tied to the canal. Everyone along the canal knew what the "Big Apple" stood for. When the canal closed, the term began to fade away from common usage, but still existed in some form. Johnnycleveland (talk) 20:54, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

“Ragtime” Billy Tucker
How can a)this "mystery" said to be replaced with a "reasonably clear picture" and b) Fitz Gerald's reference be described as the "source" of the popular nickname? It is clear that the reference was a black reference BEFORE Fitz Gerald's comments.

“Ragtime” Billy Tucker used the term not as though it were an unknown term, but rather as though in his own parlance (a more oral and less written parlance,) it was an in vogue term for the big city. It also occured almost a year before Fitz Gerald's and suggests that the term was in use prior to Tucker putting it in print.

Isn't it far more plausible that the term was being used in completely horse free context long before, but not by writers (who were seldom black in the 1920s), and that Fitz Gerald - a denizen of the stables - used the vocabulary of that world, which was the vocabulary of many other African-American environments? While Fitz Gerald may have well popularized the reference among other writers, it is clear that it came to his ears already popular. It is also clear that it is not connected to horse racing - Fitz Gerald is connected to horse racing. The Canal explanation above seems much more likely, and precedes these by far, if only sufficient research or writingcould support it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Picky-Picasso (talk • contribs) 05:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

temptation
think big apple may be a reference to temptationDj.brahma (talk) 16:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

actual apples
When I took the required NY State History class forty years ago they noted that New York used to be the greatest producer of apples. Still many of the varieties of apples are distinctly named after their New York origins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.17.109 (talk) 19:47, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Other cities section
The article section on "Other cities" is pretty much a mess, almost all uncited and almost all with dubious connections to the article subject. Are there any objections to my removal of this section? John M Baker (talk) 22:10, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Philological not etymologically,
I don't think etymons refer to origins of a phrase but I think philology, or philologically, may be a better word — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.241.6 (talk) 13:53, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Summary should describe the logic behind the name Big Apple
Most people want to know why it's called the Big Apple. In the summary all you get is who first used the term. 82.16.242.232 (talk) 15:37, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Here's a pitch.
 * It is well known that New York State was a leading producer of apples at least since the early part of the 19th century where apple shows and exhibitions were major events. Apples were big business especially leading up to the Great Depression, over in the western states.
 * But JJ Fitzgerald et al had the idea that, despite the never-ending good press on apple production from over there, the Big Apple is right here, and where you'll want to be! --Lmstearn (talk) 04:16, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

New York or Manhattan
This article seems to suggest Big Apple only refers to Manhattan. I don't know if that is correct, but that is not reflected in this article. Mannafredo (talk) 13:40, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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so the etymology remains unknown?
I don't see anything definitive here. 58.152.218.141 (talk) 10:43, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Its unknown and always will be. — Soap — 13:35, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 11 April 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. After extended time for discussion, there is a clear absence of consensus for the proposed move at this time. BD2412 T 00:18, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Big Apple → The Big Apple – It should include 'The', that is essential to the name. PhotographyEdits (talk) 14:14, 11 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 23:39, 18 April 2024 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support, seems an obvious name change, good find and nom. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:06, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Per WP:THE this sort of change only is proper if the The is always used, i.e. The Hague, and is always capitalized in running text. The article itself doesn't consistently follow this usage, nor do the sources. I think WP:THE makes it clear that the current name is correct. Bensci54 (talk) 16:34, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Bensci54. Colin M (talk) 20:15, 21 April 2024 (UTC)