Talk:Big Beautiful Woman/Archive 1

Discussion
How is "Big Beautiful Woman" a more objective term than "obese"? --24.7.159.132 03:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if semantics are involved, 'big' can also mean 'tall', therefore you can be a BBW and not technically (however that is determined) be obese. AntiVanity 00:19, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Wahkeenah - Thanks for correcting me on the term "rubenesque". 67.5.129.242

One of my favorite BBW's explained that term to me years ago... and also referred to some men who were after her as "chubby chasers". Can you cite some numbers to prove it's more often used by gay men than by straight men? Wahkeenah 10:26, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

I can't cite any numbers off hand. But in my 8+ years of browsing the BBW subculture on the Internet, I rarely find the term "chubby chasers" used in reference to admirers. And I believe when it is used in this context it's just due to ignorance of the proper term. If you look up "chubby chaser" here on Wikipedia you'll find that it indicates the same thing--that it's a term mainly used to reference the subculture among gay men. But I'm not disputing that it is still sometimes used in reference to BBW admirers, correctly or not; so it still has a place in this article. 67.5.175.120


 * I've heard chubby chaser referred to women who like big men, but never to men who like big women. --Golbez 16:45, September 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, in my years upon this earth, I've heard and used the term "chubby chaser" in reference to anybody seeking company in a larger partner, be they hetero or homo couplings. TotalTommyTerror 17:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Added two links to fat-positive organizations: NAAFA and Fat!So?. --ReenieS 16:33, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Temporarily disabled
I was directed to this page when I clicked on a link marked "zaftig." Somehow, I doubt that term is as polite or as PC as BBW.


 * what are you kidding me? i know many large women that refer to themselves as zaftig.


 * I dunno, seems okay to me. --Golbez 02:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * "Zaftig" is just an adjective in the Yiddish language; it does not have very much to do with this particular subculture. At least I think I'll change the redirect to female body shape.--Pharos 03:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

My Comments
I am not entirely sure this term was made originally for obese women whom are generally considered attractive by almost no one. There's a definitely difference between the curvaceous and even plump women depicted in some art and the ones seen waddling about the streets of America today. My theory is the term originally meant tall, strong, and voluptuous "Amazon" types. Does anyone have information on this?


 * I think you're wrong. --Golbez 08:01, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Definitely wrong, especially about the "almost no one" part. Your prejudice is showing, too.

Dude, I agree. To me, BBW = fat but Amazon = hot!

Several Errors
This page should be nominated for a clean-up, or at least wikified. Firstly, as a lecturer of the English language, I would like to assert that you are misusing some terms. For instance, Zaftig (which shouldn't really link here as there are far more appropriate articles that are closer to the word's meaning) is always used to connote positivity - like voluptuous. This page seems to take words that are relatively synonymous as having the same scope or usage in application - which misrepresents the social tenet of language. Remember, applied language can indeed prove circumstantial - and has a social dimension as well. Zaftig comes from German Yiddish; its original meaning was juicy, but it now means (1) large-breasted (2) Curvaceous. As you can see, the first definition is mainly a report of neutral connotation, whereas the second is positive (curvaceous cannot be used to connote negativity, like plumpy or obese, which is why this zaftig shouldn't link to this page). When a person (who knows how to use it) uses the word, they mean to imply a positive aspect of what they report. "The zaftig brunette with the bike" implies awe or admiration of the reported feature, mainly, her ample bosom. There is nothing PC about it, it is just an adjective. I would also like to note that sonsy, which is a scottish-English word that originally had a number of meanings, is nowadays only used to communicate exactly the same sentiment as zaftig; it is its perfect synonym.

Pictures
Some pictures would help.

Where is The pic of the chick on the first page? she was hot i miss looking at her

Unsourced comment moved here
Here it is:
 * Exceptionally large women are called SSBBWs, with the SS standing for "super size".

Maybe someone can do something with this. Joie de Vivre 19:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality
I think the whole neutrality of this article is up for debate. I am hesitant to offer any edits, as I would obviously be biased in my descriptions. However, that does not detract from the fact that this article is NOT written from a neutral standpoint. Joshuah Hounshell 18:03, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you elaborate on that? I've tagged it. I've also added a references tag as there is a complete lack in the article.--Crossmr 05:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Not so much neutrality, as defining the many usages satisfactorily...
The definition and usage of BBW is subjective, relative, individual and dependent on the context. As smaller woman will euphemize a derogatory implication of 'fat' or 'obese' to 'BBW'; a woman of substantial girth will use the term as a positive implication of 'fat' or 'obese'. A woman over a US size 18 would likely be told that she is too large for mainstream plus-size fashion modeling, yet she may find success in BBW modeling, which almost always implies fetishism or boudoir-style glamour photography (i.e.lingerie, bedroom environments) - a non-acceptance of beauty beyond size where one might expect it most to be found. Men searching for partners might note their preference as BBW (in the same way GSOH denotes "good sense of humour"), yet this does not specify lower or upper size limit in specific terms to assist definition. If you try http://www.askoxford.com for the Oxford Dictionary's definition of BBW, it receives no search results. Likewise for "Big Beautiful Woman/Women" entered as a phrase, and both of those also strike out again over at Webster's Dictionary at http://www.m-w.com. If the dictionaries can't provide any learned guidance on the topic, how can Users of the Wiki find their way to one? AntiVanity 08:03, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This description is really good. If you can find sources for it, maybe we can work some of this into the article. We should document that the term is used differently in different contexts.  Got sources?  Joie de Vivre 20:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not particularly interested in researching all the sources myself because I have discovered I am no good at it, I just wrote it from long observation of BBW community interaction via the net. I see this as a very problematic article, and part of the problem is that no initial structure for the article has been established, nor is there any dictionary willing to tackle it (thus far) and so offer a guide on what to include.  I have just reworked the entry as it stands now, I have no sources other than what is included so if someone would like to pick up the baton and keep running then that's fine with me.  I think the issue with neutrality may now be addressed in this reworking of the descriptions and breaking down each area of usage.  Hopefully! AntiVanity 08:21, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Pop culture reference list
I've removed it from the article because I think this is part of the issue of neutrality. One good website listing all of these items is better than listing them here. Provide that link and you'll be golden. I will cut and paste the list here so that it remains in plain sight, although I really do think that it is not suitable for the purpose of the article. C'mon - The Family Guy? Why not "Shallow Hal" then?

Books

 * Big and Beautiful: Become the Big Beautiful Person You Were Meant to Be, by Katie Arons with Jacqueline Shannon, 1999
 * Real Women Don't Diet: One Man's Praise of Large Women & The Society That Rejects Them, by Ken Mayer, 1993
 * Big Bold & Beautiful: Living Large On a Small Planet, by Jackqueline Hope, 1996
 * True Beauty: Positive Attitudes & Practical Tips From The World's leading Plus Size Model, by Emme, 1996
 * Delta Style: Eve Wasn't a Size Six and Neither Am I, by Delta Burke, 1998
 * Live Large!: Affirmations For Living The Life That You Want In The Body You Already Have, by Cheri K. Erdman, 2003
 * All of Me: A Voluptuous Tale, by Venise Berry, 2000
 * Skinny Women Are Evil: Notes of a Small-Minded World, by Mo'Nique, 2004

Magazines (both print and internet-only circulation)

 * BBW Magazine (out of print) - http://www.bbwmagazine.com still active
 * Mode (out of print)
 * Dimensions
 * Big Butt
 * Plumpers
 * BUF Magazine
 * Big and Fat, (was later known as Big Girls)
 * XL and Voluptuous, XL (magazine)
 * BODacious

Music

 * ''Artist: Anthony Hamilton, Song: Sista Big Bones
 * ''Artist: The Chubby Chasers, Song: BBW Barbeque
 * ''Artist: Jimmie Vestal, Song: Big Beautiful Women Know How To Strut Their Stuff. A MP3 rap digital release.
 * ''Artist: Queen, Song: Fat Bottomed Girls
 * ''Artist: Sir Mix-a-Lot, Song: Baby Got Back
 * ''Artist: Mika, Song: Big Girl (You Are Beautiful)
 * ''Artist: Dan Bryk, Song: BBW (Chunky Girl)
 * ''Artist: k.d. lang, Song: Big Boned Gal
 * ''Artist: G.B.H., Song: Big Women
 * ''Artist: The Commodores, Song: Brick House
 * ''Artist: U2, Song: Big Girls Are Best
 * ''Artist: Spinal Tap, Song: Big Bottom
 * ''Artist: The Rainmakers, Song: Big Fat Blonde
 * ''Artist: Bull Moose Jackson; Candye Kane, Song: Big Fat Mamas Are Back In Style Again
 * ''Artist: Candye Kane, Song: You Need A Great Big Woman
 * ''Artist: Candye Kane, Song: Fit, Fat And Fine
 * ''Artist: Candye Kane, Song: 200 Pounds Of Fun
 * ''Artist: AC/DC, Song: Whole Lotta Rosie
 * ''Artist: Insane Clown Posse, Song: Fat Sweaty Betty

Television
AntiVanity 08:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * ''Family Matters - Episode: Pound Foolish
 * ''Family Guy - Episode: Sibling Rivalry