Talk:Big Boss (Metal Gear)

The Reason for Outer Heaven
I've played Portable Ops all the way through and they don't give any reason why Big Boss starts Outer Heaven, the events of the game at most serves as where BB got the idea for it, but not the reasons itself (which is left open until the next game). I'd like to change that little part in the article under the Portable Ops section where it blindly says the game "explores his reason" to "shows his inspiration for". Just to be a little more accurate.

It does in a way; In the final cutscene in which Snake/ Big Boss appears, he tells Campbell something like he only feels truly alive when he's in the battlefield, much like Solid Snake states in MGS I believe. Considering what he saw Gene doing, by continuously manipulating soldiers such as Snake's mentor (The Boss), himself, as well as the other soldiers abandoned in the base, he probably felt partially obliged to do something. For extense, when Gene reveals to Big Boss the idea of creating a nation, he refers to it as "Army's Heaven" I believe. Big Boss does not consider such definition entirely accurate, considering the kind of person Gene truly is, and states that what soldiers are actually looking for is something "outside your heaven", which seems a direct reference to "Outer Heaven" and his idea of what a nation run for and by soldiers should be. Altough the amount of money Gene was able to accumulate over the years is not revelaed, it is possible that this was the money that allowed Big Boss to establish his future nation.

It also may show why Big Boss sent Solid Snake 25 years later into Outer Heaven: Because of what Elisa told him, regarding his children. Altough he may have not been able to fully understand it's meaning at the time (after all, he couldn't be a father), he would later on understand what she meant by it.

Sorry if I'm speculating a little bit(?), but after all, there are so many possibilities.--User:Bigger Boss
 * What did Elisa tell him? Oddity- (talk) 09:27, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Elisa told him that his children would bring the world to ruin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.113.9 (talk) 12:56, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not quite, she told him: "Your son will bring the world to ruin (Liquid Snake), your son will save the world (Solid Snake)" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.194.178.157 (talk) 02:57, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

MPO Render
I uploaded the new render of the MPO version of Big Boss because it's a full body picture like the artwork from MGS and the MGS3 render. It looks better than the half shot anyhow.--Snake Liquid 01:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It might look better, but it's watermarked too and I don't think Wikipedia is partial to watermarked images. Eventually someone else's gonna remove it, so better find an unmarked one or used a screenshot. Jonny2x4 03:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Some things to take in mind about Big Boss
·Name: Big Boss' real name is definetly unknown for the time being. Here it says Jack/John. Either of them can be the real one:

1-About Jack: At the beginning of the game Para-Medic asks Snake his real name already knowing that they call him Jack (And they call you Jack for short she says after he answered his name was John Doe). If Jack was actually his real name it would be silly to ask his name again,she actually knows that he is called Jack. That means Jack is definetly NOT his real name after all. Note also that if you choose the "I like MGS2" option before starting (when Snake weares the Raikov's Mask) there are a few calls with Major Tom which suggest that for some reason is better to hide Snake's true identity to the gunship crew. In fact everyone who knows him calls him Jack (the Major,The Boss)so he commonly uses Jack to be refered in some way but he doesn't want his real name to be known (maybe it's a really odd one xD,remember that he has japanesse ancestors). Also there is another reference to Raiden,who suggest that he dislikes his name (It's better that the one my parents gave mehe says to Snake in MGS2)

2-About John: He tells Para-Medic his name is John Doe trying to hide her his real name (we know that John Doe is bla bla bla a name used to hide someone's name or to identify someone without name), which is something that is clear for everyone. The next time he says his name is John is in the "Last Showdown" with Ocelot, at the same time he says John his mouth turns in a mock expression. He is clarely lying Ocelot, he knows that Ocelot will sure believe it because it's idolic seen of him, Ocelot is also younger and unnexperienced (that also suggests that Ocelot real name is in fact Adamska...). Also when Ocelot sees him off (So we meet again, John) Snake does that mocking smile again.

In almost every MGS Snake dislikes to reveal his name, because that links him to a person. And in fact in a mission could be something unnecesary A name means nothing in the battlefield, after a week, no one has a name both Solid and Big Boss say that. Solid Snake only reveales his name to Meryl and Otacon (can we doubt it that one? The cannonical final is the Meryl one...,just kidding). So,for the time being we really don't know Big Boss' real name so please change it to Unknown. And one more thing,where didi you get that Solidus named Raiden Jack after Big Boss?

·Age: People is starting to think that he was born in the 1930's, and that's not for sure. Liquid said that he was in his latest 50 when they created his copies, and that is impossible too. He should be born late in the 20's,probably 1926 or 1927. It is said that he was in WWII as a teenage by his own will,but with 11-12 years...If he was born in the dates I said he could be in his first battle at at least 17-18,just like his sons. Also in 1964 (Snake Eater) he resembles much to Solid Snake in MGS2,who is 37 (and looks older by advanced cell degeneration). So he must be in a similar age,maybe a little older...born in 1925? Why not? There's no need that The Boss would be much older for teaching him, she has a lot more of experience and she also has been trained by the Philosophers' best. She could be born perfectly in 1920-1921 and Snake in 1925-1927.He would be 37-39 at Snake Eater,43-45 at MPO,45-47 being cloned,68-70 at Outer Heaven and 72-74 at Zanzibar Land.

·Nationality and etnicity: It is clear that he has japanese ancestors (Raven told it to Solid Snake,he also knew and their factions denote some etnic mix),but it's unclear how. There is some info in the net that says he was born in Hawaii, the third generation of a japanese-american family. It is also said that in the Pearl Harbour Incident he lost the american branch of his family while the japanese was imprisioned (that sounds a little fantastic...). Do any of you know something about this?

Black Dollar 19 November 2006
 * I'd say Big Boss was born in the 30s, probably 1930-33 (making him 31-34 in Snake Eater, though he does look much older in the artwork than he does in game). Given the fact we know that The Boss encountered Big Boss after he did the stuff at Bikini Atoll, and we know that they were together for "ten years" and that they had been separated for around five years in 1964, my guess is that he was involved in "Operation Sandstone" on Bikini Atoll in 1948, when he was 15-18. BB strikes me as the sort of person who would have lied about his age to join the army earlier. He then becomes a disciple of the Boss (who is ten to thirteen years older than him) in 1949 and sees his first proper war in the Korean War of 1950, aged 17-20.


 * I don't think he's any closer in age to The Boss for the following reasons:

(80.1.72.245 16:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC))
 * 1) He refers to her being like a mother.
 * 2) She refers to him as a child.


 * But as I said she was a lot more experienced, the age factor has almost no relevance. Besides, think in what I said about him being very similar to Solid Snake in MGS2 (37 and looking older) he looks older than 30-31. You are probably right when you soy that he lied about his age, but being a little older than 12-15.Think about it.

I see that the name factor do not causes discussion so I'm going to change it.

Black Dollar 14 December 2006

Actually I'm sure that Big Boss' real name is Jack because even in Metal Gear Solid: PO, Gene calls him Jack at the end o the game

24.81.59.101 02:27, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Big Boss' real name issue has been discussed countless times, and I believe Kojima once stated that BOTH names may be considered canonical. Don't ask me how though...

Also, last time I checked, Adamska is a woman's name, therefore I believe that Ocelot was merely trying to tip off Big Boss to who he really was: ADAM. But then again, that's just (another) theory... - Bigger Boss 07:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Name debate (maybe we should have left this section in the article, since the issue remains unclear for many people): So what elements do we have here:
 * In the "Leaked Document", his real name is "Jack".
 * In the game (both MGS3 and MPO) people not calling him by his codename call him "Jack"
 * He says to Ocelot that his real name is "John".
 * Konami's official website states his nickname to be "Jack"
 * In the 8th session of the Kojima Production Report (the english version of the "Hide-chan Radio"), Kojima was a special guest and he was asked what was Big Boss's real name, Jack or John ? His answer: "It's both. (interviewer: Like Bill and William, it's the same name). So either of one is OK. There's no distinct difference. It's like saying "Hey man !" as a greeting".

So you have it, they're both interchangeable names. When Zero and the crew are calling Snake "Jack" they're not using a false name, when Snake gave his name to Ocelot he wasn't lying. Now in general, it was John which came first, and then "Jack" was the diminutive or the nickname. Seeing how his crew and his close friends call him "Jack" and how he gave the name "John" to Ocelot, who is concidered as a valuable and respectable opponent by BB, we could deduce that John is his actual name, the name that appears on his official ID or vital record, etc. But it doesn't matter much as both names are interchangeable. I'm very sure his name IS John, simply because Jack is a nickname of John. My name is David and I get called 'Dave' when people first meet up as a sign of say, amity? Gene called him Jack as well, now he has been called Jack twice and at both times they were expressions of 'attempted' amity (Despite Gene being the adversary, he was trying to convince Snake.) Either way, it's a good name for a Boss =p Zerocannon 09:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Age debate Folken de Fanel 13:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, the "Leaked document" states he was born in the 1930s
 * Kojima stated somewhere that Naked Snake was designed to be around the same age as Snake in MGS 2 (that is, ~35/37) and that he was specifically made younger compared to what was stated in MGS 1 about him (Liquid said Big Boss was cloned "in his late 50s" but this has now been retconned, BB was in his early 40s when he was cloned).
 * That would mean he was born in the early 30s. If he was 35 in MGS 3, then he was born in 1929 or 30. If he was 37, he was born in 1927/1828. Of course he could easily be 34 or 33 in MGS 3...
 * Big Boss never took part in WWII. These were just extrapolations published in an MGS 1 game guide entirely authored by US writers. Kojima already said he had nothing to do with this guide. And anyway, in the light of MGS 3, this would have been technically impossible: he was too young (with the MGS 3 new chronology, he was around 15 during the war), and how could he possibly have taken part to WWII if he only met The Boss in the 1950's ?

Well spoken. But in any case you have forgotten the part above in which I mention his dialog with paramedic at the begining of MGS3. Black Dollar 14 January 2007
 * I take into account only official explanations from Kojima himself or other official documents/commentaries. You're personal interpretations about some dialogues between Paramedic and Snake do not matter, since Kojima himself said Big Boss's real name was either Jack or John. In this dialogue, Snake is just joking about his real name. Folken de Fanel 12:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Liquid said that Big Boss had been cloned in his late 50s in MGS2, not MGS1. I believe that his age at the time should have never been mentioned to begin with. But then again, Liquid loves to taunt his brother... Bigger Boss 13:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The Boss was born in 192X, she looks like she is in her late fourties. Big Boss is easily assumed with common sense that he was born sometime in the thirties, if not, the last year (1939). I would say his age would be somewhere from 27-29. The Boss makes a comment saying he is too young to come with the Cobras near the end of the Virtous Mission, so thats a minor supporting detail. Also, in six years, Big Boss would be 33-35, the age of Solid Snake being 33 in Shadow Moses, and 35 in the Tanker Chapter of MGS2. I would stick to this age. Also, Pliskin looks almost exactly like MG/MG2 Solid Snake if you take out the mullet and a wrinkle or two.

Oh yeah, and in The Document of MGS2's script, it says Solid Snake was experiencing accelerated aging recently at the time of the Tanker Chapter. Solid Snake is 35. I wonder why that age? ;)--24.91.78.26 03:05, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Which would mean that you're implying that Big Boss was cloned when he was 35, making him 27 in MGS3 and 33 in MPO. Ofcourse, this goes against Kojima stating Snake was in his 30s (ofcourse, the Leaked Document had small differences with the finalized character data - like Volgin's full name.)Jack Raiden 08:04, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Big Boss was defintely in his 70's during MG1-2 according to early published materials. Not just the MGS: Official Mission Guidebook, but also the official Japanese MGS site and the Art of MGS. There's really no point at listing Big Boss' ages, since it seems to had changed from MGS2 to MGS3. Jonny2x4 21:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I would like to get some thing straight so excuse me if this has nothing to do with the subject. Ok in MGS3 you play as a young Big Boss before he came corrupt in the Metal Gear series right, but during the time between MGS3 and the first Metal Gear, Big Boss was cloned and thus creating Solid and Liquid Snake. Om MGS2 when Solidus Snake isn't he also a clone of Big Boss because he looks so much like Big Boss. So if Solidus Snakes was clone of Big Boss also wouldn't that mean he was made before either Solid or Liquid because of his advanced cell degeneration meaning that Big Boss' first clone would had to been made before the Solid and Liquid? jd_9393 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Nick Furry
anyone else think the eyepatch is a refrence to nick furry agent of shield?
 * Sigh... It's Nick Fury. - Malomeat 00:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

No

Snake Plisskin. Zerocannon 08:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Screw this. I always thought King of Furries was better. - The epic and melodramatic Malomeat 09:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

If it has to be a reference to every fictional character wearing an eyepatch... No way it referes to Nick Fury, if it has to be a reference it is definetly to Snake Plissken. You also know that Solid Snake goes by a similar name in MGS2.

Black Dollar 14 December 2006

How ever In the comic where nick fury makes his re-appearance he dose look very close to solid snake in MGPO

Loss of Eye Correction
I corrected the statement about Big Boss' loss of his eye. While it (the paragraph) originally said that Hideo Kojima lost his eye when Ocelot shot it accidentally, the truth is that the bullet itself did not strike his eye, but it was the muzzle flash that burnt it. This is revealed in the Hideo Kojima commentary for MGS3. There is a link to it which can be provided, but hopefully this is not a big enough issue that needs to be linked to. Also, I don't know how to write in references to sources, so if anyone can post a reference to my source if it comes under question, feel free to do so.


 * Link to source: http://www.geocities.com/muni_shinobu/mgs3/commentary.html --NWalterstorf 17:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think Geocites is a reliable source


 * †he Bread 00:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Have you read the website before answering, The Bread ? These are translations of various commentaries from Kojima himself. Of course it's reliable. Folken de Fanel 16:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The problem with Muni Shinobu's Metal Gear website is that even though he does cite his sources, it isn't referenced very well. He doesn't list where each piece of information comes from. It's a shame because I find his site to be a good resource. For example, he states in one commentary that Volgin was responsible for his father's death, yet there's no way of knowing the magazine or book where Kojima made the original statement. Jonny2x4 19:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Some people are desperately trying to remove this source from the article. Please explain here why commentaries from Hideo Kojima, translated from official sources (deluxe japanese edition of MGS3), from japanese to english, (see, it's not a mere "fansite") would be a "bad source" or a "fansite".
 * Please explain also why you're trying to replace this source by another, vague, and nearly non-existent source (this so-called "DVD", on which the concerned editors are NOT willing to give anymore precisions which could make this source identifiable, and the information taken from it -or so they say- verifiable).
 * Until clear and undisputable justification are given, I can't see why the source would be removed. Folken de Fanel 11:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Page re-write?
Most of this article is an in-universe plot summary of the bits of games where Big Boss appears or is mentioned- only bits and bobs are about the character's development through the series, the inspiration for him, etc. It's more a Metal Gear/ 2/ Solid/ Solid 2/ Solid 3/ Portable Ops plot summary than a character page at the moment, IMO. I suggest we rethink how best to approach a re-write to discuss how the character evolved from stereotypical villain in MG to the protagonist of later titles, the inspiration for him, the role his character performs in delivering Kojima's dramatic message, etc. Leave the "Big Boss Bio" for a fansite or MetalGearWiki. Hyperspacey 12:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I sort of agree. I wrote the article as it is right now, but before that it was worse, being written almost entirely from an in-universe perspective and featuring too much OR. Jonny2x4 04:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I also agree. Anyone has suggestions when it comes to the approach? User:Bigger Boss - 22 December 2006


 * I think there should be a mention of how his resemblance to Sean Connery in Metal Gear 2 influenced the direction Kojima took with the character in MGS3. I know it was mentioned somewhere. Jonny2x4 03:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the best idea would be to migrate this to Wikibooks- it's a pretty solid Big Boss bio, and we can link to it in this article- and re-write from a game-development, fan-reaction, character-role standpoint. Possibly divide it chronologically along the existing lines. Hyperspacey
 * Seeing as this isn't a textbook of any sort, Wikibooks doesn't want this. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 11:12, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Either way, I agree with Hyperspacey when it comes to the chronological bit, altough we're still missing alot of info that will be probably revealed in the upcoming sequel(s). User:Bigger Boss - 29 December 2006

The Patriots, Outer Heaven & More
I just deleted the speculation bit(?) regarding Big Boss' role in the Patriots organization and the Outer Heaven bit, since it's nothing more than that. So far, it has already been discussed in the previous games why he established it, and therefore it makes no sense to say that he did it to destroy the Patriots, altough it may be possible indeed. Therefore, unless there is a confirmation by Kojima or something of that sort, it makes little sense to add something like that to the article.

Also, whoever keeps adding stuff such as the date in which the "Les Enfants Terrible" Project started, the time in which Big Boss' cells were extracted or the mysterious third party, please stop. There's no way to proove the Project began in 1971, since the official MGS chronology establishes it in 1972 (the birth of the three Snakes anyway). There's no way either to know if Big Boss fell in a coma after destroying Metal Gear, since there's not enough info to support that (altough it's possible). The same applies to the mysterious third party; Let's stick to the facts please, and NOT speculation. Thanks for the attention. --User:Bigger Boss - 29 December 2006


 * IIRC, the ending to MGS3 lists the Les Enfants Terribles project as starting the same year as the Snakes are born during the ending timeline. Hyperspacey 04:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

What about Big Boss age?
His age was retconned from Metal Gear Solid to Metal Gear Solid 3. In Metal Gear Solid, Liquid Snake sais that Big Boss was in his fifties during Les Enfants Terribles. The Art of Metal Gear Solid also states (in the official profile, that is) that Big Boss died in his late seventies. Horever, in Metal Gear Solid 3, Naked Snake seems to be in his early thirties, and that would make him 40 during LET and in his late sixties when he died. Kojima changed his age 10 years. I think that should be mentioned in this article. [16:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)]
 * I agree that the age has been retconned (and that it should be mentioned in the article), but it's by twenty years, not ten. As you pointed out, Liquid mentions that Big Boss was in his "late fifties" when they created his copies (1972), which would mean that he'd have to have been 49-52 in Snake Eater and that he'd have died at around 83-86.


 * Obviously, this isn't the case any more. I place Big Boss at around 29-31 in Snake Eater. This makes him 37-39 when he is cloned (so just exchange Liquid's "fifties" with "thirties"), 60-62 during Metal Gear and 64-66 at the time of his death.


 * Since he considers The Boss (who I'd wager is about 44) to be his maternal figure, I doubt he's any older than 31. There's also the fact that she flat out refers to him as "a child", and claims to have "raised him" - though she could, of course, be speaking purely in metaphor. Anyway, going by my estimates, Big Boss would have first encountered The Boss at the age of 14-16 and became her disciple a year later at 15-17 during the Korean War, as the game manual dictates.


 * Note: The only reason I've had them meet a year earlier than when he becomes her disciple is because Big Boss claims that she left him "5 years, 72 days and 18 hours" before Snake Eater begins. if they first met during the Korean War, this would mean that they'd only "lived and died" together for  nine years - when Snake is very clear that it was ten years.   To be honest, I think that it was just a mistake and that the dialog should have been "4 years, 72 days and eighteen hours"... but since it wasn't, I'll factor it in as it is for now.


 * Ok, done rambling :)(195.92.168.165 14:06, 19 April 2007 (UTC))

Big Boss exposed to nuclear radiation.
It is not mentioned on here, but after you fight the fury, if you call para-medic after awhile she will tell snake she was going over his medical records, and she found that he had been exposed to Atomic bomb radiation. snake then goes on to say that a bunch of his friends got thyroid cancer and lukemia and some have died already. he says he hasent gotten any symptoms of radiation poisening but comments on how one day it will come, leaving para-medic speechless.

just thought i should put that out there, maybe it should be added on here somewhere as its a pretty important part of his history. Again where i got the codec convo was after you fight the fury and your in that corridor where the rocks just fell, call up para-medic afew times and she will mention it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Agracuta (talk • contribs) 04:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC).


 * nodds* I caught that radio convo too. Not only is it mirroring Solid Snake's Foxdie problem, but its also proof that Naked Snake/Big Boss became sterile from the Davy Crocket Volgin fired, and not at Bikini Atoll. I'm also sure the Kojima's notes state this.

Real name
Can someone delete part about john?Kojima confirms that Big boss real name is jack in the pre-order disc called Metal Gear Saga.


 * Its both actually, Jack is a nickname for John. Jonny2x4 20:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's actually John. If you watch the final showdown with Ocelot in the plane in MGS3, Big Boss says that his name is John, just after Ocelot says his name is Adamska. MightyJordan 02:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Jonny2x4 may be right. Even though Snake tells Ocelot that his name is John, The Boss calls Snake Jack earlier in the game.(Myscrnnm (talk) 21:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC))

But the Name John Doe is given to people to conceal their real name, say in court the person maybe referred to as John/Jane Doe to keep them anonymous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.96.36.33 (talk) 15:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

i dont think big boss' name is given anytime. When he says his name is john to ocelot, they hint that hes lieing, he doesn't trust ocelot, nor does he want to be his friend so he gives him a fake name. I also remember him giving the name jack. Jack is not a nickname for John, where the hell did you hear that? there two seperate names. Smanic88 (talk) 01:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Jack is a commonly-known nickname for the name John, even though they are also used completely independently of each other quite often. Please try to verify your info before making a claim like that.  Destrado Zero  09:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DestradoTensai (talk • contribs)

Deacon Yomouf
What is that from?

Neutrality
Why does Big Boss come across as a bad guy in this article? He is not a bad guy, his actions were plausible if not heroic. This article needs something that put my point across.

Uwaisis 15:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)24-08-2007 16:34

If you think twice holding the world hostage with nuclear war is heroic and recruiting little kids to serve in that war is heroic too; then yes, Big Boss was a fantastic man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.145.140 (talk) 04:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

honestly there are no heroes or villains in the mgs world, as explained in mgs3. Think about it, Solid Snake is no hero, he to committed acts of terrorism by exploiting and destroying metal gears while he was in philanthropy, each villain has a plausible reason for there actions, and Big Boss saved those children from there savage life style. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.247.29 (talk) 22:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


 * How can an article be "biased" towards a fictional character (read: non-existing person). The neutrality is only relative to the way he is depicted in each game. He was strictly an antagonist in the first two MSX2 games. His tragic hero portrayal in MGS3 and MPO is rather recent and more popular by comparison. Its not like Big Boss was a real individual whose actions can be judged depending on one's POV. :p Jonny2x4 (talk) 20:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

It's biased toward the fact that in the end if you think about it All big boss was trying to do is stop the patriots and they used his own son to kill him —Preceding

unsigned comment added by 67.180.225.161 (talk) 01:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Stopping The Patriots wasn't his only objective though, he also wanted to create a world of endless warfare so that soldiers would always have a place.It would of been hell for anyone who wasn't a soldier, so its a selfish cause. His obsession with absoloute liberty would have meant anarchy and chaos so in reality the perfect world he envisioned would have been no better than zero's ideal world of totalitarian control. As he admits in MGS4; neither him or zero were in the right and both misinterpreted The Boss's will. He fits into the category of anti-hero, he truly cared about soldiers like himself and about giving people back their free will from The Patriots but his ideals and actions were questionable. He's certainly a very interesting character, but the revelations in MGS4 certainly don't make him the series'overarching hero. He's more grey than black or white.
 * Actually, even the MSX2 games (more specifically, the official translation of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake) had given some hints about Big Boss's true nature (eg, his MGS3/PO nature). For example, there was Kyle Schneider telling Snake about the fact that he saved as many of the war orphans/refugees in Outer Heaven, even those who were originally his enemies [eg, Kyle Schneider's resistance], as he could from the NATO bombings. He even hinted that Big Boss would have wanted Snake to save Doctor Marv when he told Snake where he was, so really, even the MSX2 games have hinted at the fact that Big Boss wasn't completely evil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.191.26 (talk) 12:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

This is another inconsistency...
Big Boss was supposedly toasted by Solid Snaked, and still his FULL body was shown in MGS artwork in a freezing chamber, complete, with no visible scars. Maybe his skin was flameproof and only his other organs were damaged? weird...--Kim Kusanagi 05:30, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * i think this is just because Kojima had no idea a few old super nintendo games would grow into what it is today. He carried on the story. its a video game, they can do whatever they like! Smanic88 (talk) 01:02, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Metal Gear 1 and 2 were MSX2 games. Jonny2x4 (talk) 06:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * There were also NES releases of them.--97.90.154.13 (talk) 08:06, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, no. They released a completely ruined port of MG1 on the NES, and MG2:SS never made it to North America. Oddity- (talk) 22:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot 14:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mpo e32k6 04.jpg
Image:Mpo e32k6 04.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:37, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MG1 Boss.jpg
Image:MG1 Boss.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 13:41, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

portable ops PLUS
This article needs a bit on Portable ops plus. It has a section on portable ops. Perhaps a small line or two in that section about the sequel game? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smanic88 (talk • contribs) 01:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really. Portable Ops Plus is just an expansion that doesn't add anything to the canon, much like Integral, Substance and Subsistence. Jonny2x4 (talk) 05:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Requesting Lock
Requesting lock on this page, and possibly the entire Metal Gear category, until MGS4s release date, due to rather frequent and persistent vandilation with unverifiable information that could also be potential spoilers for the game's narrative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EBwiz (talk • contribs) 00:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Does poorly lit video of the game play on Youtube count as source? Captain Günsche (talk) 10:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No. See WP:Verifiability. Jonny2x4 (talk) 06:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyone knows that the people who make the YouTube videos might have hacked into Konami, stolen the models and cut scene data, and got David Hayter and co. to misinterpret the story, just to fuck with Wikipedia's head.--72.70.10.49 (talk) 21:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

MGS4 story
How come the info on Big Boss in MGS4 was removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Najhoant (talk • contribs) 07:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistency
Metal Gear Solid 4 is a huge inconsistency from what has happened in "Metal Gear 2" Solid Snake "kills" big boss with a make shift flamethrower, but in MGS4 there is NO scaring NO visible snatcher organs just all flesh and blood. Either this is a large part huge inconsistencies with big boss or MGS4 big boss wasn't the real Big Boss and the real deal has been dead for nearly 20 years or the one who was burned on the Volta was the real deal. 67.180.225.161 (talk) 07:46, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

MGS4 is just shit. And this page is for discussion of the article not the subject. And the article notes the inconsistency.

†he Bread 3000 05:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC) where dose it note the inconsistency? 67.180.225.161 (talk) 01:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * MGS4 wasnt shit and Big Boss Skin and limbs where replaced with Liquids and Solidus ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ (talk) 22:54, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

First off, Big Boss was never a Snatcher. That was just a mistake included in the MGS database due to the fact that they misinterpreted a joke radio call from MG2: Solid Snake. This is why there are no references to it in MGS4. And finish MGS4 before calling it shit. Big Boss clearly states that he was rebuilt using parts from Liquid and Solidus, which is why there are no scars.

A fake Big Boss imagine that!? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.219.232.192 (talk) 02:16, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Ok... about the Categories.
I think Big Boss (or rather, Naked Snake) had stated that he fought in Vietnam sometime during the events of Portable Ops, as he himself stated that he recognized Frank Jaegar (Aka, Null, aka, Gray Fox) from when he was fighting in the Vietnam War and transferred Frank to a Orphanage to help him recover from the experience. Therefore, I think, because of that, he should be listed under the Fictional Vietnam War Veterans category. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.251.111 (talk) 02:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No Big Boss states in MPO that they first met in mozambique —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.140.133.126 (talk) 13:09, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, technically, he only said they saw each other in Mozambique. He didn't necessarily say they first met in Mozambique. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 01:29, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

"Appearances" needs to be split into smaller sections!
The "Appearances" section is waaay too long! We need to break it up into a few smaller sections, maybe by game or by chronological order?Morrasl (talk) 05:44, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Punished Snake?
Why is Punished Snake not a valid alias? If I remember correctly that is how they refer to Big Boss in the 2013 trailer. As far as I understand, they gave him a new code name "Venom Snake" as of the 2014 E3 trailer but I haven't seen any sources saying that he is no longer called Punished Snake. If someone could just go ahead and give a source confirming his code name is no longer Punished Snake instead of just removing it, that'd be great. Linuxrox (talk) 01:42, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Requested move 2 March 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the pages at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 01:21, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

– This is the obvious WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Big Boss" due to overall notability. Most people will come here looking for the Metal Gear character/title. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 09:00, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Big Boss (Metal Gear) → Big Boss
 * Big Boss → Big Boss (disambiguation)
 * Oppose. I fail to grasp the obviousness, and I don't think that a character from an ephemeral video game should qualify as a PTOPIC for a common English collocation, badly failing WP:PTOPIC criterion 2 (long-term encyclopedic interest). Also, I ran the |Big_Boss_(C.O.P.S.)|Big_Boss_(Metal_Gear)|Big_Boss_(film)|The_Big_Boss|The_Big_Boss_(1921_film) pageviews, which show that The Big Boss, a Bruce Lee's film, comes pretty close even in terms of pageviews. No such user (talk) 12:22, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Per WP:SMALLDETAILS, "The Big Boss" wouldn't necessarily override "Big Boss".ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:24, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose, I read the primary topic of "Big Boss", if there is one, as the most powerful foe on a video game level. bd2412  T 04:02, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose Bigg Boss (an Indian TV show) gets significanty more views than all of the previously mentioned pages. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 05:29, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose I don't see that one particular video game character is an "obvious" primary topic for a general concept. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 00:31, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose as all above. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:00, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:06, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Big Boss Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker.jpg

Infobox image is a fan edit
The infobox image for this page is an edit made by a fan, found here

Shouldn't it be replaced? The image is not official promotional material from the character's publisher, and since it was edited, it is not a accurate depiction of Big Boss, as he did not have a Hidden Blade. 2001:4450:830F:3B00:E153:FB6A:34D:5F75 (talk) 08:15, 19 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Sure. Being a non promotional material doesn't mean it should not be used but the hidden blade is wrong and should be replaced with an accurate depiction of Big Boss. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 10:45, 20 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Agree with the above. It shouldn't be there. Foxhound03 (talk) 02:24, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I've added a screenshot of his face from Metal Gear Solid 4 to the infobox for now, since I can't find any good PNGs of the character. Should note that its the same image used over at the Metal Gear Wikia, but that shouldn't be an issue. λ Negative  MP1  16:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * This is much better, thank you. I was curious if you knew what ever happened to the old CGI model that was on this article? If memory serves right it was from Ground Zeroes. Thanks again! Foxhound03 (talk) 01:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * If you're proposing it be added somewhere in the article, then yeah, we could request a WP:REFUND. As for making it the infobox image, that's probably not a good idea considering how many people get Big Boss and Solid Snake confused, readers and critics (and anyone outside of the fandom) alike. λ Negative  MP1  17:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)