Talk:Big Brother (TV series)/Archive 2

Big Brother VIP merge
I'm suggesting that Big Brother VIP be merged with this article because the Big Brother VIP article doesn't actually have that much information in it, and it only exists because this exists. Plus I think it's a bit confusing having them separate, and it would stop all the adding of Celebrity editions to the table in this article. JDtalk 18:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, but only if the Big Brother Other Editions page is also merged with this article so that all editions are on the same page. Grahamuk 18:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll add it to the merge thingy on this article. JDtalk 18:49, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

What a response... Guess they're getting merged then. JDtalk 21:20, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Now that the pages have been merged, I think we should go a stage further and merge the 3 tables. So rather than having a table for main editions, a table for VIP and a table for Other editions there should be just 1 table that lists all editions. Also the facts sections should be merged into 1 as well. What do people think? Grahamuk 23:34, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it's ok right now. If we merge the tables it will be confusing to know what kind of BB someone won. Also, some facts don't fit when you put it together with the others. Pabs 14.38, 25-11-06 CET
 * I was thinking about merging the tables before I proposed the article merges, but then I thought that it might be better to keep the tables where they are now. Having separate trivia sections that I think should go anyway and then having one big table I think would be a bit odd.  JDtalk 13:41, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

First triplets competing
In Big Brother 3 Bulgaria are competing triplets! During their first week in the House they had a secret task - to change each other pretending to be one and the same person. It is similiar to the twins from BB Australia


 * Yeah it's a state of fact and it's also singled out in the trivia 2006-section. Shameless 11:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Why is the Reality TV show the main article?
Why isnt the Big Brother article a reference to George Orwells famous book and the ongoing common useage of the phrase in common English? This article should have a link to the TV series, preferably from a disambig page. 203.57.241.95 23:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)Encise
 * The article Big Brother is a disambiguation page, which links to all of the things you mentioned. Big Brother (TV series) focusses on its use as a television show. Tra (Talk) 23:57, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Why three tables?
Why are "Big Brother around the world", "Big Brother VIP / Celebrity Big Brother around the world" and "Big Brother other editions around the world" in three separate tables? That just looks weird. 206.47.141.21 18:01, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe because they're three separate things? JDtalk 18:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If that were true, I wouldn't have asked the question. They are all the same yet we need three tables?  Doesn't make sense.  I think I will merge them later. 206.47.141.21 13:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you should read this discussion and added your opinion there before doing that. JDtalk 13:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with 206.47.141.21 about merging them all into one table - then we wouldn't have the arguments about were to put US BB #7 or BB India. Shameless
 * The thing about BB USA and India is clear for the ones who want to understand it. One is ALL STARS and the other one is VIP. That's all. I think it's OK as it is right now. Pabs.
 * How would this be done though? I can't think of any easy way to show which series each season is a part of without making the table look really bad.  It also doesn't make much sense to have sections for Big Brother VIP and other Big Brother editions near the bottom, and the information about the seasons nearer the top.  JDtalk 15:32, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * well obviously the only one to understand that about BB India and US#7 are you since everyone who's browsing this site tries to add them since they think it might be missng. Just look to this polish website: http://www.reality-tv.pl/modules/content/index.php?id=6. He ranked all the seasons on their countries sections and it's still obvious to understand which had been regular, celebrity or special seasons. We could also indicate this with using different background colours for several kinds of seasons. Shameless 12:03, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't guide myself for what a polish site (sigh) says, but which is the format produced. And the format in India is VIP, and ALL STARS in the USA. C'est fini. And no, 'everyone' is not adding it. Is the same that we had here some weeks ago with Celeb Pinoy winner. But, hey, even if everyone would be adding it, if it's wrong, it's wrong. Pabs.
 * One of the main reasons for merging the 3 pages was to avoid the issue of having the wrong show on the wrong page. The current situation has not resolved that and I don't see the point in having merged the pages if the tables and facts are not also merged. It might as well go back to being on 3 separate pages. Grahamuk 12:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If they're going to be merged, the whole article needs to be rearranged. The table would need to be moved further down, and something would have to be done about the facts sections.  I've just thought of a way that the tables could be merged without making things overcomplicated.  JDtalk 12:23, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The table has some space problems in Canada, France, Philippines and Poland. I don't know how to change it. Do you? Pabs.
 * I can't see anything wrong with it, sorry. JDtalk 13:28, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I just checked it with IE7 instead of Firefox and it looks good. Config problems, my guess ;-) Pabs. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pabs (talk • contribs).
 * I think it was really a good decision to do so. it seems to be way better now Shameless 18:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a lot better this way. Good job. 206.47.141.21 17:18, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Local name
Why can't we use the real local name? Like in the Philippines, it's Pinoy Big Brother, Big Brother will almost always refer to the voice. Why don't we follow Idol series, Star Academy, where the real local name is used, like Singapore Idol, Nouvelle Star, Project Fame, etc. If we'll apply the conventions here to that of Idol series, it'll be full of "Idols". -- Howard  the   Duck  12:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * the difference is that even most local shows just use the name "Big Brother" as in Australia, Croatia and many, many more. If you look to their Idol shows they are called Australian, Singapore or Malaysian Idol but you can also see that in their shows logo.
 * I think if a show is officially called "Pinoy Big Brother" I agree with you, however as I already wrote, most of the other BBs don't give their adaption a special local name. Shameless 15:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * So if that's the case, Pinoy Big Brother shouldn't be listed as "Big Brother" in the table but as "Pinoy Big Brother," along with other Big Brothers the name theirs differently. -- Howard  the   Duck  08:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. Shameless 12:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Aren't we going to make it too complicated? The name for the 4th edition in Germany should therefore be Big Brother The Battle, for the 5th edition in Belgium should be Big Brother Zero Privacy etc. I think this column should just give an indication of the basic name of the show in that country - so just Big Brother, Loft Story, Gran Hermano, Grande Fratello etc. Grahamuk 12:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * We'd use what is the collective name for all seasons. For example, for UK, it's plain and simple "Big Brother," Australia is also "Big Brother,"(?) the Philippines is "Pinoy Big Brother," and so on. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Howard the Duck (talk • contribs) 09:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

'Despite criticism from many intellectuals'
'..the show has been a commercial success.', according to the text of this article.

Hmmm. So how is this a rejoinder to 'intellectual criticism'? So, if it's a commercial success, then the end justifies the means? 'Commercial success' is all that matters?
 * That is just your personal appreciation. The text is not saying that. Pabs.
 * The article is conspicuously missing a section on criticism. It's not like there's any shortage. For example, cheap telly like BB puts actors and writers out of work, let alone the effect on the audience.124.176.176.157 10:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Including 'Least housemates to be evicted?'
since there are a few special seasons which didn't followed the original BB rules of nominations and evictions of course no eviction took place on them. however the bulgarian vip season had (due to the high number of voluntary exits) only two evictions with nominations before. I think that is a fact which should mentioned on the trivia section. Shameless 17:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I didn't realise this is what what I removed meant. I have no problem with its re-inclusion, but only if it is reworded so that it is clearer, to something like "Least number of evictions in a season". JDtalk 17:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

in fact there was only one evicted housemate, as the second one - lilana left the house because she had the least number of positive votes. here is what actually happened with the nominations in vip brother 1: the first nominations were on day 5 (friday). on monday (day 8) one of the two nominees left voluntarily. then the second nominations were on day 9. nominated housemates were raina and dim dukov (who is now hosting Big Brother's Big Mouth). the eviction should be on friday but on day 10 another housemate - galya litova decided to leave, so the eviction was sheduled for monday (day 15) and raina was evicted. on the next day - 16, were the new nominations. two of the three nominees decided to leave the house and they did it on day 19. the producers decided to start the positive voting for winner. on day 27, lilana had the least number of positive votes and she was evicted.

Big Brother Belgium VIPs 1
does anyone of you have a list of nominations and evictions from the first flamish BB VIP season since it's likely that we miss a few 'first' facts on the trivia section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shameless (talk • contribs) 17:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Big Brother Online Version
There is now an online version of Big Brother taking place, within the Second Life virtual reality world. Would someoen interested in it write up a page about it? I would myself, but I'm far too close to those events to reasonably write it up objectively. Rhialto 02:54, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Most voluntary exits
I added this fact as 18 in BB5 Germany, but it's been changed to 15. Which 3 on my list didn't exit the house voluntarily? Achim, Franco, Frank, Ilkay, Jupp, Karim, Kay, Lydija, Nicole B, Paco, Petra, Ramona, Sandra R, Serhat, Silvana, Solveigh, Susanne & Volkmar Grahamuk 13:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * sorry I made a mistake so I am going to change that to 17. Sandra R was taken out by BB after the press wrote some bad things about her (because she gave her babies away) and saw that as the only way to protect her. Jupp was forced to leave since someone in his family needed his help (which wasn't explained further in the TV Show) and BB thought it would be better if he's not staying in the house however due to these circumstanges he was allowed to return a few weeks later. That would make 16 but your list does not include Lisa (Elisabeth) who left the house voluntary after the majority of household gone mad with her. However she was just talking with enemy Franco (who left the house at the same time but had all the HMs on his side) and the BB-Psychologist, when they were outside in a special room and they decided to end this fight and both were allowed to return to the house a few hours after they left, of course it's actually against the rules but it remains as the only time it happened on german bb so far. Shameless 16:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Save and evict
Does anybody know which season was the first to let viewers vote to save and vote to evict housemates? J Di 23:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Australia did it for the first time. Shameless 17:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Spain did it before Australia in October 2005 Grahamuk 19:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Australia did it the first time in April 2005 Shameless 22:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you sure about that? I'm fairly sure that the host Gretal said in April 2006 that it was the first time they had used the save/evict voting. And looking at the percentages for the 2005 Australia edition they look to be evict only percentages. If that is not correct and they also did save/evict in 2005 then this page needs amending http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_Australia as it says "Big Brother 2006 added the save vote, allowing viewers to vote to save a housemate as well as evict; in the final tally housemates' save votes and evict votes are merged." Also this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_Australia_2006 would be wrong as well as it says "Big Brother 2006 featured several innovations to the formula. In previous series of Big Brother Australia, viewers could only vote to evict the nominated housemates they wanted to leave the house. Big Brother 2006 added the save vote." Grahamuk 00:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well then I am mistaken problaby, I thought Glenn received some -% in his eviction result. Anway, never trust when Austrlian BB says they are doing a world's first since they have been wrong about this a few times. Shameless 20:17, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's why I asked. :P J Di 20:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Separate Article
I think that the whole racism controversy deserves its own separate article due to its international political ramifications. Although the section on this article is good, I don't think it is anywhere near describing everything that happened as a news event in itself. I would strongly support the creation of a separate article (for example, Big Brother racism controversy (2007) where the whole story can be described in full. As far as I am aware there is precedence for this in Wikipedia and it shouldn't be too hard for editors who are willing to put the work in.

I've been inserting, organising and maintaining the information at Shilpa_Shetty which is understandably far too large and will be significantly pruned once the controversy is over, but it's a shame to see all of that go to waste. There are plenty of references there for use and other developments haven't been discussed, for example, Cameron's and Livingstone's comments as well as comments from the Indian politicians.

So there it is: A separate article? Ekantik talk 06:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Paps and GrahamUK are working on it. Shameless 20:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Article sub-headers
I notice that this article has the words Big Brother in italics within each header of the article. I'd like to propose that these be changed to normal text within these headers, for the following reasons:


 * It breaks the subheader links automatically generated on the "recent changes" and "my watchlist" pages.
 * It is inconsistent with other articles which mention the main article's name as a part of a sub-header.
 * The extra emphasis provided by italics is un-necessary within the context of a header, as the header intrinsically provides emphasis.

Unless someone can provide a convincing reason not to, I will shortly remove the italics from all the sub-headers. Rhialto 03:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Manual of Style (titles). J Di 18:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And there's nothing at Manual of Style (headings) to say it shouldn't be done. &mdash; AnemoneProjectors (talk) 23:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll leave it then. I do think though that teh MoS needs to set a policy to have no italics (similar to no bold type) there, as it does break those automatically generated links. Rhialto 09:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Put it on Bugzilla or something? J Di 09:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Big Brother Dorf
I'm from Germany and watched almost every episode of german Big Brother, so I know many things about it. "Big Brother - Das Dorf" started dircetly after the 5th Season, so please let me edit this! 80.132.166.227
 * Feel free to write an article about it! If you speak German, you could use Big Brother (Fernsehshow) to help you get information. By the way the English Wikipedia has restricted the creation of new articles to registered users so you'll either need to create an account or submit the article at Articles for creation. Tra (Talk) 18:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

First wedding in the House
Yesterday there was a wedding in the VIP Brother 2 Bulgaria House. I am almost sure it is the first one ever. However, my record in the Big Brother facts was deleted. So, can you give me an example of another wedding in the House?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.11.172.36 (talk) 07:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Marco and Bettina got married in Big Brother 6 Germany on 26th December 2005. Silvia was married in Big Brother 1 Slovakia on 22nd October 2005. Those are 2 I can think of off the top of my head, there have probably been others as well. Grahamuk 09:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, my mistake. But why don't you add this as a fact if you know where and when was the first BB wedding?


 * Because I don't know when the first wedding was, I just know that there have been others before Bulgaria. Grahamuk 15:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * the first wedding was long ago in 2001 when Anne Mona and Ramsy married in the "100 days later" season from Norway Shameless 13:11, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Emilio and Eva had a wedding in GH2 Spain, in April 2001. Also Gastón and Eleonora had a wedding in GH1 Argentina, in 2001. Pabs 16:14, 2 April 2007 (CET)
 * GH2 Spain didn't started until late May so and Eva and Emilio didn't knew each other before the seasons started so don't post any false facts here I also read for the first time that Eleonora and Gaston married in the house - you really think stright catholics in southamerica would do that after they know each other for a few weeks?! Shameless 22:22, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * OMG, ridiculous. Review your data, dude. Pabs, 9:30 3 April 2007 (CET)
 * Perhaps it is you that should gets your facts correct before you accuse people of posting incorrect facts. GH2 Spain started on 18th March 2001. Take a look at this page if you don't believe me http://elgato.lagateradigital.com/ghii.php?go=historia or the wiki page here http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Hermano_%28Espa%C3%B1a%29#Gran_Hermano_2_.282001.29 Grahamuk 23:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

3rd child in BB Bulgaria
Currently, in the house lives the third child in the history of Big Brother Bulgaria. First, Miss Bulgaria' 99 entered and lived in the VIP Brother 1 House with her 3-years old daughter Danaya (the first child to live in the House ever - marked as a fact). Then, in Big Brother 3 Svetlana gave birth to her daughter during the show and now Zdravko and Hristina (who married yesterday) live with their daughter Yanica in the VIP Brother 2 House. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.11.172.36 (talk) 12:10, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
 * the it has to be the 4th child since Tanja from BB Netherlands Season 5 also gave birth to a child an lived with it in the house before she left voluntary Shameless 13:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Facts section
Since the Facts section of this article only has one reference in it, could we please consider removing it? It seems unlikely that many of the things in the section will ever be sourced, and it has been there long enough for references to be added. J Di 12:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I second that. All these debates over "world firsts" are kinda senseless since it became more of a contest of who is adding the most thing or correct and delete them in the way they imagine it (I look at you GrahamUK and Pabs). Shameless 12:19, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I should look at you as you are the one that have added a bunch of incorrect/irrelevant data since the beginning -just now you have added that Javier Estrada was part of the first swap (Mexico - Spain) when he didn't, it was Andrés Barreiro... etc, etc, etc-. If you don't like people to correct you when you add something wrong, my advice is not to take part in a community like Wikipedia. And you said "kinda senseless since it became more of a contest of who is adding the most thing"... and just added such an extremely important fact as 'First deaf contestant'... well, bravo for you, dude. By the way, my vote is also to delete it, as it has become a complete mess up where nobody cares about what is being added or not, where nobody contrasts the information. The same for the whole article. It's getting more and more irrelevant and disfiguring with the passing of time. Every month a new table with new irrelevant info. Great. Pabs 00:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL I mean there is a fact like "first HIV infected contestant" in here and nobody cared - the funny thing is that sometimes I just add wrong facts so that you can do you homework and correct them. for example Doreen isn't really deaf and hopefully never won't be, same with the swaps - some of the involved contestants are right, some are wrong and just I know which are these. seems like you have to do another research to keep it all correct and accurate just as it should be in Pab's little Wikipedia universe, LOL Shameless 22:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * As you can see in 'history', it is a long time without correcting any of the giant bunch of mistakes this article has, so you can keep on adding whatever you want. I do not feed trolls :) Pabs 00:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If you don't like it ignore it. And the facts are hardly controversial. JenAW 16:22, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not about not liking it, it's about the fact that the section has been in need of references for a very long time. Per Wikipedia's verifiability policy, anything that cannot be verified via a reliable source should not be in an article.  J Di 13:13, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Now on its own page Big Brother Facts where those who have spent hours and hours on it can still enjoy it. NIghtjar 23:55, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

The people who spent hours on the facts section out-vote by their labor the pathetic editors exposing their brainlessness above. 62.64.214.234 17:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC) I think the voting is in favor of keeping so far.62.64.214.234 17:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No, sorry - it doesn't work that way. No only was it discussed above, it was also split out to it's own article and discussed during deletion: Articles for deletion/Big Brother Facts. I think that speaks for itself. This is an encyclopaedia, not an indiscriminate collection of unreferenced trivia. Thanks/wangi 17:23, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Longest Big Brother VIP
It looks like VIP Brother 2 Bulgaria will last for 33 days. I think it will be the longest Big Brother VIP, won't it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.11.172.36 (talk) 09:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC).
 * The two portugese VIP seasons have lasted for 60 days each. I am sure some of the mexican VIP seasons were way longer too. Shameless 18:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

3-way relationship
Australia BB7.

It's gonna be confusing but here it is:

Hayley and Andrew are going out. Her ex-boyfriend then walks in as an intruder, Hayley knows Billy, as Billy knows Hayley. Andrew does not know that Hayley knows Billy. And Hayley does not know that Billy knows that Andrew and Hayley are in the secret relationship.

Confusing yes, And Billy is also Mr. X, he isn't a housemate, and is only in there to try and make the secret come out.

So should, 3-way Relationship and Mr. X be a fact for 2007? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.49.239.251 (talk) 06:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC).


 * nope. it's unrelevant and it's also not a world's first. (Spain has done the same in its sixth season) Shameless 22:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

First Celebrity Removed.
Warwick Capper - Celebrity Big Brother Australia 2002.

For exposing himself to another female.

I notice we have other information on Celebs as BBVIP/CELEB facts, so should this be added? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.49.239.251 (talk) 06:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

why is the fact section deleted?
?

Reincluding the BB Records?
I agree that the facts section ran out of control with all these hilarious "worlds first" facts. but don't you think it would be interesting for visitors to see a little statistic of records on this site? just some basic records of facts which include all Idol shows like -most times nominated for eviction -most times successive nominated for eviction -longest series -highest eviction percentage -oldest & youngest contestant -season with most HMs, voluntary exits and forced evictions

It would be just these and maybe some others but ONLY these records should be considered which could theoretically be achieved by all regular BB shows. what do you think? Shameless 21:26, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * What about First winner, first evicted, first removed etc.


 * And what about twists for eg.


 * First twins - US
 * First blood related - US
 * First House with all females - UK


 * Just general ones that made headlines etc. None of the extra stuff like - first ever sex in the house, etc.


 * I don't think that is particulary a good idea since we would return to where we have been before immediatly. all these "firsts" are twist which do happen in maybe five out of fourty shows - I just think the records are really mentionable. Shameless 14:07, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Housemate Swap
Should the BBUK "Fake Week" twist with Housemate 'Pauline' from Australia added?
 * Probably not, since there wasn't actually a swap. Tra (Talk) 17:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it should be on there, but only as long as it is made clear that it was a "Fake" Swap.

borderline pornography
'[...] while others broadcast what would be considered to be to be borderline pornography by American standards.'

Why the sudden mention of American standards here? It seems random - surely it would be better to say something like 'would be considered borderline pornography in more conservative broadcasting regimes' or something?
 * Removed the statement entirely. This statement can be applied to television in general, particularly when expressed from a worldwide perspective. What this statement essentially says is 'different countries have different standards for what can be broadcast on television'. This amounts to common knowledge, is likely to be covered in a separate article elsewhere, and has no direct relevance to the topic of the article. --Careless hx 13:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The United Kingdom section
In the Incidents section there appears to be a multitude of spelling and grammar issues, the section reads quite childish with an apparent aversion to soft 'c's.
 * I've gone through this section and tidied it up a bit. Tra (Talk) 17:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Map could be altered


The Big Brother map that identifies countries who have their own version could be altered in Canada. In Canada only French speaking parts like Quebec have their own Big Brother while the English speaking part watches and participates in the American Big Brother, at least from my understanding. So maybe Canada can be changed to reflect that it takes part in a foreign version (BB America) and has its own (Loft Story, Secret Story). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alucard 16 (talk • contribs) 03:56, August 26, 2007 (UTC)