Talk:Big Brown (horse)

Video and Gloom
Brown's victory was overshadowed by the filly's euthanasia. I added the video, since this colt, for sure would try to be the Triple Crown winner (is there a jinx?).nytimes.com, Filly’s Death Casts Shadow Over Big Brown’s Derby Victory: I am the Filipino sole healing, equestrian, psychic and dwarf judge. Horsemanship / horse racing is/are my passion since 1972. --Florentino floro (talk) 06:23, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant Info
I removed this from the article: Gary Knapp was born and raised in Minnesota. Knapp and his brothers, Jerry and Gordy, were raised on the family farm near Foxhome, which is about 10 miles west of Fergus Falls. They attended high school in Morris and graduated from the West Central School of Agriculture. It doesn't relate to the horse directly, has no source and fails to make any connection to the article. SteveCoppock (talk) 23:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Videos
Hey I added this kentucky clear video, but this You tube video seems not so clear. Can you put a clearer link on this. Horses racing is my passion since 1972.* Kentucky Derby 2008 videos*BIG BROWN PREAKNESS 2008 WIN --Florentino floro (talk) 13:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

This user in bad faith removed this link due to alleged redundancy, without even looking at the video: the You tube link is the only link about the 2nd leg of the T. crown, while the first link I added last time was the Kentucky derby, the first jewel. This editor does not even know that there are 3 parts of the Triple Crown, the last will be on June 7 at Belmont: 20:45, 19 May 2008 (hist) (diff) Big Brown‎ (→External links: rem redundant video link and news link per WP:external links) I have to re-add it. --Florentino floro (talk) 09:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Per WP:COPYRIGHT, we are not allowed to link to copyright violations. --SmashvilleBONK! 12:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

ntra video
I took pains to find a proper video and found this. Now, there is no copy vio. I hope this stays here, since this horse is the 4th since 20 years that won both jewels, and readers must see this clear video. It is history.ntra.com/video, Video, Preakness S. - May 17, 2007 --Florentino floro (talk) 13:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That one works. But he's not the 4th in 20 years to win the first two. He's the 4th in 8 years, 8th in the last 20...which means so far he hasn't really done anything too far out of the ordinary. --SmashvilleBONK! 13:18, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Big plans and steroid
I added this regarding bigger plans after Belmont and steroid, since it is legal in USA: Trainer Dutrow Jr. debunked speculation of the horse's retirement following his attempt to become the first Triple Crown champion in 30 years. “No one told me that,our plan is the Belmont, Travers and Breeders’ Cup. We are going to show up if our horse is good and ready.”salisburypost.com, Briefs: Trainer has big plans for Triple Crown threat Big BrownDutrow Jr. admitted using Winstrol, an anabolic steroid, on Big Brown on the 15th of every month.www.lvrj.com, RICHARD ENG: Race-day drugs should be banned --Florentino floro (talk) 10:00, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed the whole thing...the drugs had already been mentioned earlier in the article. I thought the Dutrow quote didn't really reflect anything that was in the article, but after thinking about it, it's probably a good thing to put in his plans. So I'll rephrase and add it back in. I'm not trying to own the article, but I am trying to make it easy to read. Things like "On May 16" shouldn't be included, as it's not really relevant when things are announced or who announces them. It makes it read very much like a news story and not an encyclopedia. --Florentino floro (talk) 10:00, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Dire Omen
I added these important dire events which signal the OMEN; I hope these edits do stay, unless Brown makes history, and all these are useless. But if Brown is crushed, then, my edits are part of history. Brown is wearing a second set of stainless steel sutures on the inside of his hoof. Hoof specialist Ian McKinlay changed the sutures Saturday and planned to attach an acrylic and fiberglass adhesive (patch) to the hoof. He missed 3 days of training but his gait and attitude has been unaffected.houmatoday.com, Patching up Big Brown's cracked front hoofAfter the crack is patched, Brown was exercised by rider Michelle Nevin on Sunday and will have his final workout Monday or Tuesday.www.courier-journal.com, Big Brown's hoof to get a checkup Only 11 horses won the Triple Crown, and Affirmed won last in 1978, while only 3 horses reached Belmont undefeated -- Majestic Prince (1969), Seattle Slew (1977) and Smarty Jones(2000).www.orlandosentinel.com, Can Big Brown deliver?Ian McKinlay said that Big Brown "does not need a patch on the quarter crack on his left front hoof until the morning of the Belmont Stakes. So the trainer Rick Dutrow will give Big Brown his final hard workout Tuesday to breeze 5 furlongs without it and gallop him into the race confident the colt’s tender hoof is healed."therail.blogs.nytimes.com, Big Brown Doesn’t Need Patch Until Race--Florentino floro (talk) 09:55, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Very significant edit, from my experience of [quarter cracks] it most certainly won't heal before saturday, hopefully the patch up remedy is effective. we will have to wait and see if it affects his performance, great racehorses can run with pain, the drug laws in the states are very liberal compared to the rest of the world, what pain relievers are permitted?Craig rd (talk) 10:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Forget about Big Brown. My money's on Dire Omen. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 11:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Good info--I updated it today to reflect that it is all now past tense. (For example "Big Brown is wearing" to "Big brown wore") Grumpy otter (talk) 00:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I salute the author of this article
By way of reply to your twin messages (and with BATED BREATH, since the entire American racing nation is direly experiencing anxiety), let me say this: here in my Philippines, I, myself, did dream as my sole ambition, to be a race horse jockey, after graduating basic and intermediate horsemanship at D'Rossa Philippine Horse School; since 1972, when I loved race horses (and 2nd only, horse racing), I note, that, in my watching races here, since 1972, Luck and Destiny are the sole judges of Crown Races. It never crossed my mind, that as frustrated jockey dreamer, I would land to be a lawyer, judge, healer, psychic, and Filipino dwarf servant of yours. Craig rd's point is very clear, while Baseball Bugs's rejoinder, seems very frightening on these 2 horse' fate or Faith. Now, this commentary by nydailynews.com - :"The Belmont Stakes has turned into a game of footsie." But for believers and infidels, alike, these edits of mine, on the bruise and Patch, are dire warnings, on the very "thorny voyage to the 30 year coveted crown." Let us keep our fingers crossed for Big Brown, and I want to be part not only the voyage, history, but of this VERY ARTICLE.:Casino Drive, on Friday morning suffered a stone bruise on his left-hind hoof. Drive's hoof was soaked in a tub of Epsom salts and ice water for 20 minutes and dried for an hour. This process was repeated throughout the afternoon.pennlive.com, Foe's bruise may aid Big Brownnydailynews.com, Casino Drive has bruised hoof, but is still on track for Belmont--Florentino floro (talk) 10:59, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Dates?
Article needs dates for the races run. If someone was wondering "When did Big Brown win the _____?" they shouldn't have to surf to the actual races to find out (am in a hurry and can't get sucked into another 2 hours of editing at the moment, which is what usually happens lol). SteveCoppock (talk) 16:21, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Check the results table on English Channel. I'll put one of those in later. --SmashvilleBONK! 17:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I live in Asia what time is the belmont run new york time?Craig rd (talk) 00:37, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Desormeaux
does anyone know if Desormeaux will be riding Big Brown or Casino Drive at Belmont? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.174.141.199 (talk) 20:55, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Big Brown. Prado's on Casino Drive. --SmashvilleBONK! 01:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Post Mortem
I dont believe Big Brown's poor performance in the Belmont could be or should be attributed to a lack of steriod's, he obviously raced like horse carrying an injury. The stable and track officials will deny forever this was the case, to save face and prevent critisism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.65.209 (talk) 05:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I concur. Like in the insides (chambers of Supreme Courts, and White House / Malacanang in Philippines), we, skeptics, could not be fooled of the truth, and cover-ups. It is good Wikipedia has a talk page. And since I had been in horse racing since 1972, and since I personally rode and fed or had taken care of a riding quarter horse from 1975-1983, all of us horse riders and lovers, had been shocked why Big Brown was entered despite a) lack of preparation, b) days he was laid off, due to c) crack. Even a poor Filipino shoefarer of horses, would know that it is elementary law on races, that a horse MUST be scratched due to the crack-layoff-unpreparedness thing. Another point. We veteran horse lovers, know, that 90% of race horses, continually have hoof or feet problems due to daily exercises, which would cause the horses' feet to be in water daily for bath. This is too much for their feet. Why did they then not do a Casino Drive scratch for Brown? They, for sure, knew that even one day absence in morning gallops, would be one year equivalent, for the horse. Brown had had history of feet problems for which reason, he was seldom raced. This is typical of thoroughbreds. I would venture a reason, why Brown was entered despite unpreparedness: money - 1:4 odds, the Brown syndicates bet on the other long shots - that's money, monkey business, so to speak. $ 600,000 is the measly price for Da Tara. Will you believe me, if some of Brown's connections bet millions of $ on Da Tara? Here in the Philippines, it is game fixing, punished by law. just sayin --Florentino floro (talk) 09:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * So I added this:Da' Tara ($79) finished 1 1/2 miles, one lap at Belmont Park main (dirt, rated fast) track, in relatively slow time of 2:29.65 (with quarter-mile fractions of 23.82 seconds, 48.30, 1:12.90, 1:37.96, and 2:03.21). Nick Zito has now spoiled two Triple Crown attempts-he saddled Birdstone (at 36-to-1) to Smarty Jones in the 2004 Belmont, and now Da' Tara had run the supposedly invincible Big Brown off his feet.www.ntra.com/video, Belmont S. - June 7, 2008ntra.com, Big Brown last in stunning finalewww.nytimes.com, Big Brown Tires as Triple Crown Drought Continues and the video www.ntra.com, Video, Belmont S. - June 7, 2008--Florentino floro (talk) 09:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

--Florentino floro (talk) 09:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And I removed it - this is the Big Brown article, not the Belmont Stakes, Nick Zito or Da' Tara article. --SmashvilleBONK! 17:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Why isn't the "Two-year-old campaign" section reinstated? Vandals removed the entire section and no one has replaced it. A horse's legacy needs to include the two-year contests. I recommend adding the section referenced in version 21:23, 7 June 2008 SandyGeorgia. This seems to have the latest edits before it was vandalized. -- Wikidude62 16:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikidude62 (talk • contribs)

I can't see any reference to a loose shoe picture 2 weeks after the race? i have some difficulty with this, I'm a farrier by trade, this would be very obvious at the time and reported by track staff.

Ambiguous phrase
I removed the phrase "after a heavy beating" from the Haskell section because it is inaccurate and inflamatory. There are rules about how the whip may be used and there are correct phrases for the strong but still allowable use of a whip. Also, "after" sounds like the race stopped, he was beaten, and then ran faster to win.

The Belmont section sounds as if he ran the whole distance but just couldn't win. The reality is that he did not race. I don't have a film but didn't he trot the course? A bit of description here would be useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parsnip13 (talk • contribs) 05:09, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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