Talk:Big Dig/Archive 3

Driving Range
I think the recently discovered secret driving range in a ventilation building needs to be included somewhere in this article--207.180.180.178 22:42, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

"Thousands of leaks"
Sources [9] and [10] are the same URL ( http://www.thebostonchannel.com/bigdig/3924866/detail.html ), moreover, the article seems to have little to do with the first paragraph in the "Thousands of leaks" section, despite being cited twice. Is there no article by "the MIT Engineers" that could also be cited? Cnj 02:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

(I would also suggest cleaning-up the paragraph for readability [e.g. the definite article seems out of place], although not before a better source is available). Cnj 02:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Unnwieldy name
If we have to include a disambiguator in the name anyhow, why not just rename the article to "Central Artery/Tunnel Project?" &mdash;Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 20:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Because no-one here in Boston calls it that.Jerem43 08:20, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

The Zakim Bridge design
The predominate feature of the bridge that makes it unique from other cable-stayed bridges is in Christian Menn's asymmetrical design of the structure. Here is a better explanation of the features that set it apart from its other cable-stayed brethren:


 * 1) The two piers of the bridge are pentagonal, or five sided, with the main deck running through the center. Most other cable-stayed bridges are "I"-shaped with two road decks on either side of the piers, or they are "A"- or "H"-shaped with the road deck running through the center.
 * 2) The bridge's road deck has an asymmetrical design with the north-bound entry ramp from the Sumner Tunnel riding on the exterior, east side of the bridge. This feature makes it the widest cable-stayed bridge in the world at 10 traffic lanes and 5 breakdown lanes.
 * 3) The two obelisks that adorn the top of the two towers were engineered to reflect the design of the Bunker Hill Monument in nearby Charlestown, MA.
 * 4) The cables are laid out in an asymmetrical pattern, the cables on the outside of the tower anchor in the center of the road deck while the inner cables attach to the outer side of the road deck.

^

Map
Is there anyone who could provide a map of the changes between the roads before the Big Dig and the patterns after the Big Dig? --myselfalso 21:36, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Also Cambridge is incorrectly labeled. It is south of I93. The area labeled as Cambridge is Charleston. --Dorazine (talk) 14:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Removal of existing infrastructure
The article suggests that the project was completed in January 2006, however while there is plenty of talk of the construction, there is no mention of the removal of the existing infrastructure that the Big Dig was meant to replace. Can someone add content that speaks to this? --Tfitzg 23:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Assessments
I assessed this article as a B for Boston and Massachusetts WikiProjects. It is well written, has adequate sources and confirms to the WP:NPOV, WP:NOR and WP:Cite Guidelines. I upgraded it from Start to B for the US Highways WikiProject as that it was more than Start class IMHO. - Jeremy (Jerem43 19:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC))

I also added and assessment for the US Interstate WikiProject for the reasons listed above. - Jeremy (Jerem43 19:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC))

New archive pages


Due to the increasing length of this discussion board, I have moved posts dated from the first half of 2007 and earlier to the archive pages. Posts started in one year and continued in to the next are located in both archives.

Jeremy (Jerem43 18:40, 5 October 2007 (UTC))

Merge proposal
It has become clear that the consensus for this merger is Oppose, there for I am closing it.

-Jeremy (Jerem43 17:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC))

It has been proposed that the article Thomas P. O'Neill Jr. Tunnel be merged with this one, please discuss here. Tag date 26 October, 2007.


 * Oppose - The Big Dig was the project and the Thomas P. O'Neill Jr. Tunnel was a result of the project, two related but different articles. Similar to wanting to merge the United States presidential election, 2004 article with the George W. Bush article. - Jeremy (Jerem43 00:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC))
 * Oppose for the same reason given above.  Seicer  (talk) (contribs) 01:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - We'd need to merge in at least the Williams, City Square tunnel, and Rose Kennedy Greenway as well, plus (depending on where you draw the line), Greenbush, Red/Blue connector, etc. --Jnik 19:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment For goodness sake with all these articles related to the Big Dig I wonder if a template should be made to cross link these articles.  Sawblade05  (talk to me undefined my wiki life) 08:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose Though I wonder if in decades to come, the individual structures will have become better known than their parent. Let's bring this up again, say, 2015. Sfahey 16:38, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mhs logo.gif
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BetacommandBot (talk) 15:14, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Fixed --- Jeremy (talk) 17:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

more bad news
http://www.boston.com/news/traffic/bigdig/articles/2008/07/17/big_digs_red_ink_engulfs_state/

--John Bahrain (talk) 13:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I added the figure of the real cost being $22 billion to the article. Grundle2600 (talk) 20:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Should the "Big Dig Disaster" link be removed?
I think the link (http://bigdigdisaster.com/) should be removed because it leads to a site that is similar to Digg.com. Does anyone agree?--Jjupiter100 (talk) 01:56, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Clarification
Shouldn't a clarification link or context for what "Powers Fasteners, the makers of the adhesive, revised their product specifications on May 15, 2007 to increase the safety factor from 4 to 10 for all of their epoxy products intended for use in overhead applications. The safety factor on Power-Fast Epoxy was increased from 4 to 16." be good? Without context, this information is useless other than to say it got better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satsuke (talk • contribs) 15:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Corruption and Fraud
Someone's taken issue with my recent edits, so I'll open things up for discussion. I submit that The Big Dig is noteworthy not for its cost, but because of its immense cost overruns, time overruns, and associated corruption and fraud. As it stands, the second paragraph focuses primarily on simply the cost, and includes an odd quote from Barney Frank. Only very late in the paragraph does it discuss the things that make The Big Dig noteworthy. The outset of this paragraph should explain why it is about The Big Dig that is noteworthy, and that is not simply the dollar cost. Lots of projects are expensive, but The Big Dig was something else. I invite comments on why this violates NPOV, or what alternate point of view I'm even taking.122.172.14.14 (talk) 11:05, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Citations/footnotes/attributions
This article tries to cover a lot of ground, and obviously has involved a lot of effort. Article suffers for over-reliance on mass-media sources, and are sometimes incorrect or misleading. Furthermore, the citations/footnotes do not always support the statement(s) being made in the article text.

For example of propagation of misinformation: "At the beginning of the project, engineers had to figure out the safest way to build the tunnel without endangering the existing elevated highway above. Eventually, they created horizontal braces as wide as the tunnel, then cut away the elevated highway's struts, and lowered it onto the new braces.[26]" Reference 26 is to an Associated Press article, which may have contained this incorrect statement - the link is dead, but in any case the elevated highway was supported in place onn new underpinning supports, then the existing columns were cut out; it was never "lowered" - in fact it was never shut down during this process.

For example of misattribution to a cited source: "A $10 million contract, signed off as a cost overrun, was used to repair these leaks. Many of the leaks were a result of Modern Continental and other subcontractors failing to remove gravel and other debris before pouring concrete. This was not made publicly known to the media, but engineers at MIT (volunteer students and professors) performed several experiments and found serious problems with the tunnel.[33]" Reference 33 is to a WCVB TV article, which contains no original information on any of the statements made in the article paragraph, makes no reference to MIT involvement, and seems to mainly a TV follow up to a Boston Globe article.

This article covers a serious topic, and these types of omissions do Wikipedia a disservice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JimfreemanIII (talk • contribs) 17:04, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Death toll?
The article says four people were killed. Yet citation #4 (which is linked to that claim) only mentions the one lady who was killed by falling concrete. Was an official death toll ever published? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.70.227.217 (talk) 16:57, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * In addition to Mrs. Del Valle, one man was killed during constuction, and one died of a heart attack in the traffic congestion resulting from having to close that tunnel for so long. Eight people died as a result of badly designed "Ginsu guardrails" and perhape the four includes one of them. Dick Kimball (talk) 18:56, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Problems
Living in Boston, I recall that Governor Romney fired Turnpike Authority Chairman Mathew Amorello, a former state legislator, ostensibly for not keeping the governor propmptly advised of one or another of the Big Dig catastrophes, although it also gave Mr. Romney the opportunity to make his own appointment to that well-paid post. Dick Kimball (talk) 19:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Mass Transit
Since I live in the immediate vicinity of the supposed Arborway line restoration, I can tell you that the MBTA scared the merchants along the former Arborway Line by threatening to reduce or eliminate on-street parking for their customers. Naturally the merchants then opposed the extension. The real reason that the MBTA closed part of its formerly most-used line was to divert passengers to the newly and very expensively relocated (to the Southwest Corridor) Orange Line for public relations purposes and to ensure that UMTA saw its investment paying off. That reason still exists, so the MBTA is motivated not to perform the restoration. By the way, when the Arborway Line ran its full length, on-street parking was not reduced. Dick Kimball (talk) 19:48, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Logan Airport access
From the section "Impact on traffic":

"The only direct access to Boston's Logan Airport from downtown was through the paired Callahan and Sumner tunnels under Boston Harbor."

What about the Blue Line? I guess it must have existed prior to the Big Dig and run from downtown to Logan airport? How about "the only direct access by car to Bostons' Logan airport..."?--Soylentyellow (talk) 12:19, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Inconsistency Noted
I am confused by comment that "as a result of the deaths, leaks..." when the first sentence of the second paragraph indicates that there was one death. Frank Niro (talk) 02:50, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page
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completed project?
The premise of the project was to create a green space through the center of Boston rather than the green monster that divided the city. It would be nice to see some photos and discussion of the end result. If I still lived in the area, I'd add photos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:8052:6D40:709B:B815:57C2:4F (talk) 04:46, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

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Mixing of traffic/impact on traffic
These two sections of the article repeat much of the same information. One section can/should be eliminated to avoid this repetition, as it repeats verbatim what has already previously been said. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:194:4000:4E:0:0:0:F7CC (talk) 02:55, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

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