Talk:Big Nose Kate

Article sources
Nice job on the first pass bio of Kate Horoney, whoever you are. I'll see if I can come up with a picture. I've made a few minor changes. Glen Boyer ought to be given credit for digging a lot of the original bio stuff up on Kate. Sbharris 01:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Glen Boyer as a source
The book "I Married Wyatt Earp" about Josephine Marcus and authored by Glen Boyer is used a source several times in this article. This book has largely been discredited. See the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral talk page, a portion of which is quoted below:


 * There is no evidence that Boyer ever met Earp's Josie/Sadie Marcus (who died in 1944 when Boyer was in his early 20's), and indeed there indirect evidence against it, as he certainly would have mentioned such a meeting in his 1955 letter to Stuart Lake, which survives. See http://home.earthlink.net/~knuthco1/IMWEfiles2/curiousvendettasource.htm which probably should be referenced in this article if there is any more Boyerism. Moreover, there is no evidence that Boyer had access to anything other than the Cason manuscript in writing I married Wyatt Earp and therefore anything he/she says about the Tombstone years is suspect. It is third hand at best and fiction at worst.

Any content supported purely by Boyer's book is not a reliable source and should be removed. -- btphelps (talk) (contribs) 00:41, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

"Big nose"
Given that in her picture, she doesn't appear to have a particularly gargantuan schnozz, why did she have this nickname? --Dweller 13:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Dweller, according to Kate herself in the Anton Mazzonovich article, Kate was considered by Wyatt Earp and his friends to always be dealing in Doc's business. A place where in the 19th century a woman had no place.  So Wyatt and his croanies began celling her "Nosey Kate."   But because being of Hungarian descent she DID have a larger nose.  So Big Nose Kate stuck.  Please Visit the FindAgrave.com page that is referenced on the page to see other pictures of Kate. Diamond Lil 03:12, 16 October 2008 (UTC)CapnMike (talk)

Redstone, CO
Redstone is closer to Glenwood Springs than it is to Colorado Springs.

Corrections...and Kate's story NOT the Earp saga continued
Hello Everyone,

This is Angel Brant and I have fixed a few things that I see people have added that hardly has to do with Kate. I have made a lot of contacts with her family and the historians in many towns throughout the SW where Kate has been known to have been.

The biggest misnomer is the who thing about Kate Elder. I am working on that right now with a person in Dodge City who is also writing about Bessie Earp. The gist of what I have found is that Elder was some sort of official in Dodge and Kate allegedly took on his last name so that her actions would not be looked as harshly. Is it true, who knows. But Im trying to iron things out as much as I can for her.

Also, I fixed the part about her being Doc's common law wife. In my recent digging, there was nothing that bound them together as common law anything. If I find out different I will gladly re-adjust it. I also noticed that they said Kate made 3 trips to Tombstone. Thanks to some recent discoveries in Globe, I think the truth is that yes, she did miss Doc and did go to "Fiesto" in Tucson. But it was Kate's money that was spent not Doc's. Kate owned a miner's boarding house in Globe, she never leaned on Doc either in any card game in Prescott, either. Kate learned of the money being made in the mining towns of Tip Top and Globe, Arizona. She also at the time was passed the prime age of prostitution.

All I can ask, and I AM making a plea here, stop adding BS about Kate that is not true! Ok, yes, she worked her way through her teen years as a prostitute. That we do know considering her age when she left home and being documented as both a dance hall girl, whore and subsequently being sued alongside Bessie Earp as a prostitute. But to diminish this woman who WAS a true Arizona Pioneer just to flower the Earp/Holliday fable is wrong. She like the Earps has not only fans but a family who wants to know her ancestry as well as that of her siblings who lived a very rough life after their parents died so young.

Lastly, yes, Glenn Boyer should be credited for his contributions and making his info available to kick start people like me who spent 5 years digging. In fact, it was Boyer who challenged me to find out more about Kate than what he had written so many years ago. I have and since my book was written now 3 years ago, we still have people getting it wrong...look at the new plaque on her grave that marks an Arizona Pioneer as nothing more than "Rowdy Kate"!!

Thanks All, please keep the Old West Alive by getting the info right. AND Tombstone is about alot more than the Earps, OK Corral and Doc Holliday.

Angel (17:42, 6 November 2011‎ 72.223.62.253 (talk)‎)


 * A "common law" relationship is a way to express a long-term relationship that was common in the west at the time. Modern law defines a common law marriage to exist when a couple has lived together as husband and wife for a set number of years which varies by legal jurisdiction. So it is not inaccurate to say that Doc Holliday and Big Nose Kate were common-law husband and wife after 5 years of living together.


 * Angel, if you are going to make ongoing contributions, it's a good idea to create an account. Users who edit articles and who do not sign in are more likely to have their unsourced edits reverted because anonymous users are prone to vandalize articles. Once you sign in, please sign your talk contributions with four tildes ( ~ ). This way others can respond to your edits and communicate with you effectively. It's not enough to assert you are an expert, despite whatever "book" you may have written or claims you have made to contact with supposed "experts". `— btphelps (talk) (contribs)

Spurious information
"While history has always stated Kate was born in Hungary, her death certificate states she was born in Davenport, Iowa, to father Marchal H. Michael and mother Catherine Baldwin."

A death certificate is in no way an authoratative source about a person's parents or birth ( unless the deceased is an infant ). A death certificate is an authorative source that a person has died, and if possible,  the cause and circumstances of their death. Nothing more than that. How is a doctor or local medical official supposed to authoritatively determine and record the parentage of a 90 year old person with no living relatives ? They can't !Eregli bob (talk) 22:18, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Gin mill vs. Speakeasy?
I removed the link to "Speakeasy" for "gin mill" on the grounds that speakeasies were a creature of Prohibition; but there's no "Gin mill" article. Can someone who has access to the reference books please find a better term, e.g. after-hours bar or bar for illegal liquor or disreputable saloon or cheap saloon? Thanks! Monado (talk) 00:59, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


 * In those days they were called saloons and there were no laws. Gandydancer (talk) 04:01, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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American citizen
There is no such thing as an American citizen. People born in the United States are U. S. Citizens as reflected on passports. Also there are no maps of a country called America. Eaglehawk3841@gmail.com 137.83.96.31 (talk) 04:22, 1 April 2022 (UTC)


 * See American (word). MB 13:33, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Pictures
The main article image and the next, of a woman with her (alleged) sister, clearly depict two different people. The faces are nothing whatever alike! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.166.41 (talk) 00:10, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

DOB
Currently, the infobox and early life section are giving different years for her date of birth.1849 vs. 1850.

Toyokuni3 (talk) 15:35, 14 January 2024 (UTC)