Talk:Bighorn sheep/Archive 1

Redirects
Redirects: Desert bighorn sheep, Desert bighorn-sheep, Bighorn Sheep, Bighorn sheep, Ovis canadensis, Ovis canadensis nelsoni, Ovis canadensis mexicana, Ovis canadensis cremnobates

Formatting
Sorry to mess up your excellemt page, Mav. There is still something screwy with the new image format code. The range map forced the taxobox to almost the full width of the screen in Opera 6.x, though it looked perfectly OK in IE 5.0 and Moz 1.6. I uploaded a thumbnail of the picture too, but discoverd it was the map that was the problem, so I'll delete the thumbnail afain in a moment. Tannin 13:21, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * No problem. :) --mav

Subspecies
The subspecies of this species is under dispute by biologists, but are still widely used by governmental agencies and conservation organizations. I tried to reflect this mess in the Subspecies section. Unfortunately, because most of the article came from the USGS, it uses a possibly idiosyncratic definition (with only three subspecies). I'm not sure how to proceed with editing. -- hike395 19:08, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * Mentioning the controversy is a good first start. But since most of the per state info is from government sources, and those government sources seem to be working on an idiosyncratic definition, I think we should just state that fact up front. The results of other studies can be added later. I also think that the rangemap should be put back - but with caveats. --mav 21:55, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * OK, restored map (down toward bottom). Let me take a crack at scrubbing the subspecies out of the state-by-state stuff, see if you like it. I'd like to add more about O. c. californiana in the California section, but I'll hold off until we've reached a consensus over the subspecies stuff. -- hike395

Bighorn sheep in Rocky Mountain Park
Just want to add there are 800 bighorn sheep in Rocky Mountain National Park. http://www.nps.gov/romo/visit/park/wildlife.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.1.139.253 (talk) 15:12, 22 August 2004 (UTC)

Wrong redirect
Just want to add that bighorn sheep and Rocky Mountain goats are two completely different animals. I typed in "Rocky Mountain Goat" and was directed to the Bighorn Sheep page, which should not happen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.47.102.177 (talk) 21:57, 22 August 2004 (UTC)

Bighorn sheep
The Wikipedia concept is alluring, but this page is a good example of the problems that arise when an entry is not written and/or edited by specialists in afield. The bighorn sheep section is badly garbled and, in several places, just plain wrong.

Examples:

1)The conservation status of the Ovis canadensis is NOT "endangered." Last time I chekced, there were two POPULATIONS of bighorn sheep that were federally listed, the Peninsular and the California.  Many other populations in the U.S. and Canada are secure and/or growing.

2) Your distribution map shows only the distribution of desert bighorn sheep. This error is compounded in your comment on Colorado distribution.  There may or may not have been any DESERT bighorn sheep in pristine Colorado, but there were thousands of bighorn sheep.  Reports from that region may reach all the way back to Coronado but certainly begin in the early 1800s.  Colorado remains one of the strongholds for Rocky Mountain bighorns.

3) The table that lists bighorn sheep populations ca. 1993 is for DESERT bighorns only.  I didn't see any label indicating that-- it would be easy for someone to conclude that this table was some sort of estimate for ALL bighorns in the U.S.

I haven't got time to go on with this critique. I hope somebody squares this page away. Right now, it is badly flawed. Whatever else you do, be sure you separate general information on bighorns from info specific to the desert subspecies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.155.143 (talk) 20:36, 12 June 2005 (UTC)


 * Tried to separate the information about different subspecies into different articles. Please feel free to fix if I made an incorrect edit. -- hike395 06:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Statement conflict
Hi. These two statements conflict. Which is it, tens of thousands or millions? Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo 07:53, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * The number of Bighorn Sheep in North America in pristine times is unknown but most likely was in the tens of thousands. A 1929 estimate of the pre-Columbian numbers of all subspecies of Bighorn Sheep in North America was at 1.5-2 million.

See the nature-serve website. The 2 million estimate is a "order of magnitude too large". Randaly 11:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)Randaly

Population trends
I'm confused about the "Population trends" section. It appears to give two different population numbers for the species in 1960, and also seems to compare the animal with itself (I'm not sure what was intended there.) Here is the confusing passage, in italics:

By 1960, however, the overall population in the United States had dwindled to 15,000-18,200 (with major declines from the 1850s to the early 1900s)... ''These declines were followed by a period of population stabilization that was ascribed to conservation measures. The decline of Bighorn Sheep probably mirrored the pattern of decline of the overall bighorn population. Bighorn Sheep population trends have been upward since the 1960s when their population was estimated at 6,700-8,100.''

Which is the correct 1960 data? Is there a difference between "bighorn sheep" and "the overall bighorn population?" Some editing here would be helpful. --Funnyhat 19:12, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Bighorn Sheep might refer to only the main species. Also in the "1960's" might refer to later years than 1960. Randaly 11:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)Randaly

Weight of the horns
Do the males' horns weigh up to 30 pounds (14 kg), or up to 40 pounds (18 kg)? The "Characteristics" section lists both figures. Funnyhat 03:50, 9 May 2007 (UTC)