Talk:Bigsby vibrato tailpiece

Identical text on Bigsby's Site
Was the text of this article ripped from Bigsby's site ( http://www.bigsbyguitars.com/vibe/?page_id=15 ) or the other way around? Either way something needs fixing. 65.88.78.250 (talk) 22:03, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Removed text
...(tremolo) refers to the act of disregarding rhythm to rapidly produce pitches when musical notation calls for such a treatment...

User:Rohirok has beaten me to it in rephrasing this. I'm still not altogether sure what it means; I think there is some information there, although it may go perilously close to original research.

The claim that disregarding rhythm is involved is I think probably the observation of a musician, most likely an electric guitarist. I'm another of those, although I rarely use the whammy bar myself, to the point that I have actually removed it from the 6-string I most often play nowadays! But back in the 1970s, when I used a lot of wah-wah pedal on stage, the most normal technique was to operate the pedal rhythmically with your right foot while consciously avoiding synchronising the movement to the rhythm of the music. For some canonical examples of this technique, listen to almost any Jimi Hendrix recording from the late 1960s (he may have used his left foot, being left-handed).

Electronically scanned devices such as the electroharmonix Bad Stone phase shifter could be adjusted to produce similar effects, but quite different to a manually (there must be a better term for a foot operated device) operated pedal, whose operator introduced a subtle relationship to the music absent from the electronically scanned device. The other thing was, at slow scan frequencies the effect of the electronic scan was unreproducible on stage, it came out significantly different every time, while the wah-wah was reproducible. Both had their uses in live music.

A vibrato unit is electronically scanned of course, so at low scan frequencies the same thing happens so far as reproducing a sound live goes. For an example try the Creedence song Long As I Can See the Light.

As I say, this is at least bordering on original research. If we have only my first-hand observations, it is original research. But I'm sure someone more authoritative than I has made such observations somewhere, and if we can find them, then we'd have some encyclopedic information that's currently lacking from this and related articles.

The claim that musical notation is involved is I think false. Again, I think I can see how someone could come to this conclusion in trying to compare the classical and contemporary approaches, but it's a bad guess IMO. Andrewa 18:59, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Bigsby Tail unit: Origin of "Whammy Bar"
In 1963, seminal blues-rock guitarist Lonnie Mack released several instrumental solos, including "Memphis" (Billboard #5), "Wham" (Billboard #24) and the lesser-known, but even more technically-challenging "Chicken Pickin'". All of these classics were recorded on an original 1956 Gibson Flying "V", retrofitted with a Bigsby tail piece unit, which Mack used (along with tube-fired Magnatone amps)with great success in order to create an overall sound that was unique at that time.

The term "Whammy Bar" (so named after Mack's 1963 recording "Wham") came into common usage among guitarists, many of whom, including Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton but especially Stevie Ray Vaughan, were greatly influenced not only by the distinctive blues-rock style which Mack pioneered, but also by his use of the the vibrato arm to create distortion, an element of rock guitar which reached its pinnacle in the late '60's and early '70's during the "psychedelic" era.

Guitar types
I must admit I'm a little baffled by the inclusion of this section. Theoretically you couid probably attach a Bigsby to anything. Ry Cooder has them on his Strats, for example. Doozy88 19:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Misleading info about the Bigsby
This article is a bit misleading. From reading it one might assume that (a) it is the most popular type of tremolo bridge system, compared to the Floyd Rose-style and Strat-style bridges, or at least as popular, and (b) that a guitarist might prefer the other bridge types because they are able to bend pitch both down and up. Neither are true. As to the first point, Bigsby tuners are not legitimately "competing" with the newer styles; are in fact virtually extinct. With the exception of a few "old style" guitars such as Gretch hollow-bodies, they are a rarity on guitars. As to the second point, Floyd Rose- and strat-style bridges have become the dominant types not because they can bend notes in both directions (in fact, strat-style bridges typically can only bend down, not up, because of their construction) but because they stay in tune much better than the Bigsby (as well as having adjustable intonation and other advantages). Bigsby bridges are notorious for going out of tune if the bar is used to any significant degree, another thing you wouldn't know from the article. Perhaps I will edit this page to reflect this, or perhaps another industrious individual can parse this information in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.22.26.126 (talk) 07:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The article could definitely stand to be improved, particularly in the area of citing reliable sources. You're right about the comparisons with Strat-style units: there really is no contest between the two, as the Bigsby is quite rare on modern guitars. One thing I will note, however: The Strat "trem" (even the vintage style) can be set up for upbends as well as downbends. It's a simple matter of setting the spring tension such that the pivot plate tilts up slightly toward the neck when in the neutral, balanced position. It may be necessary to adjust the height of the pivot plate's anchor screws to allow free movement in either direction. Also, the neck angle may need to be adjusted back in order to restore the desired string action, and pickup height (particularly at the bridge) increased accordingly. But yeah, sources are needed. I've got plenty on the shelf, actually. I close-up picture of the unit would be good too. I'll put this article on the list. Nick Graves (talk) 02:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Define rare, what would be the standard for that? There are still new guitars that have factory bigsby units. They are not just reproduction models. The PRS Starla, Ibanez AF75 and Epiphone Alleykat are less than 10 years old. And that's setting aside all the reissue Fenders, Guilds, Airlines, Dearmonds, and Gibsons. They are admittedly less common than a strat-style bridge, that's not saying much.

As for tuning problems with vibrato arms, those come from binding at the nut or saddle, which happens in any improperly maintained guitar without a locking nut and saddle. There are enough aftermarket upgrade strat trem parts (graphite saddles, roller saddles, brass saddles) to suggest that there are problems there too. They are perhaps considered to be less notorious because most guitarists expect those issues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.224.234 (talk) 03:55, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Just to update this discussion, for 2021. The use ofa 'trem' for many rock styles has become less popular with more guitars sporting fixed bridges. Ironically the trend for retro has seen the Bigsby become much more common and on a wider range of brands. Plus, just to confirm it's eady to set a Fender bridge 'floating' for up and down bends, less easy to avoid accidentally depressing it with your palm when muting. Stub Mandrel (talk) 09:26, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Photo
Added a photo of the system on a Coronado.

Also, I added a "Design" section to the article. The article may need sub-dividing. Still working on it. Any ideas?

Fortlansing (talk) 21:53, 11 August 2012 (UTC)