Talk:Bill Donovan

Wild Bill Donovan
This page needs to be moved to William Edward Donovan, as "Wild Bill Donovan" is also the name of the head of the American Office of Strategic Services during World War II, an important historical figure.

At the very least, Wild Bill Donovan should be a disambig page. Jkp1187 (talk) 14:37, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, this page needs to be moved to Wild Bill Donovan (baseball), which is the player's commonly used name per naming conventions, but I can't do it because that redirect has been edited. Request discussion below -Dewelar (talk) 02:59, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Requested move
Certainly the more common name for this player, per WP:NC-BASE. -Dewelar (talk) 03:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ Kingturtle (talk) 12:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Page moved per the names by Bagumba. No issues with the first move as there was a clear consensus. The second also had consensus, but the target name was open. So I made a choice. If one of the other options is better, I have no objection with relisting that article for another move. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

– Three years ago, it was suggested that "Wild Bill" was the most common name for the first pitcher because it fit with WP:NC-BASE, and reasonably so. Possibly, this was done to disambiguate from the lesser known Bill Donovan, the second pitcher. While Wild Bill is a very prevalent nickname for the first Donovan, most sources just list him as simply Bill Donovan. It may have fit the convention at the time, but since he's just known as Bill Donovan in most sources, it does not fit it now. Therefore the two Donovans need to be disambiguated differently. The disambiguation names fall in line with NC-BASE. Transaspie (talk) 06:21, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Wild Bill Donovan (baseball) → Bill Donovan (right-handed pitcher)
 * Bill Donovan (baseball) → Bill Donovan (left-handed pitcher)


 * Wild Bill Donovan (baseball) got 5592 views in 2010, compared to 1524 for Bill Donovan (baseball). So the right-handed pitcher should be primary. I seriously doubt that these two subjects are widely known for being right or left handed, so I suggest Wild Bill Donovan (baseball) → Bill Donovan. Bill Donovan is a just a redirect to a DAB page now, so it's available. Kauffner (talk) 09:17, 14 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Didn't realize that Bill Donovan by itself could be an option. Looking at "Wild" Bill's stats, he's certainly earned the right to have that page.  I'd be more than in favor of a move like that.  I'm not sure how the other Bill Donovan gets disambiguated, though.  NC-BASE suggests handedness first.  I'd prefer (1940s pitcher) as the disambiguation because it looks better.  I'll bring this up at the Baseball WikiProject and see what they suggest. -- Transaspie (talk) 22:46, 14 November 2011 (UTC)


 * As the person who requested to move the page to its current location, I can shed some light on why it was placed here. At the time, both Baseball-Reference and Retrosheet listed the player as "Wild Bill", but that has since changed. I therefore fully support moving the page to Bill Donovan. As for where to move Bill Donovan (baseball), I know that the disambiguation hierarchy at WP:NC-BASE has been endlessly debated, and I caution that if it's moved anywhere below where it "belongs" in the hierarchy, it is likely to be moved again anyway unless the guideline is changed. -Dewelar (talk) 23:26, 14 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I didn't realize they were using his nickname in the page title back then. Huh.  I always assumed based on URL titles that he was always just Bill on the stats pages.  Thanks for the info.  And thanks for the words of caution.  I still don't know how I feel about using the handedness option when the other page has no disambigs, but I'll accept whatever is chosen. -- Transaspie (talk) 23:44, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * They do go back and forth on these issues. I believe in this case what happened was that he was Bill Donovan in the original source (Pete Palmer's encyclopedia), but when B-R began drawing their bio data from Retrosheet, it changed to Wild Bill. When Retrosheet changed it, B-R changed back with it. As for my opinion on handedness vs. decade, I think it's a matter of whether you believe that disambiguation should be based on what's most remembered or on what's most defining. Handedness, to me, falls in the latter category, so I tend to favor it, but I can see the other POV as well. -Dewelar (talk) 23:50, 14 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Wild Bill Donovan (baseball) → Bill Donovan, and Bill Donovan (baseball) → Bill Donovan (Boston Braves pitcher) Per Kauffner above, Wild Bill Donovan is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. For Bill Donovan (baseball), being retired allows the option to use WP:NC-BASE #4 and dismbiguate by team name, since he only played for one team.  Readers are more likely to recognize the team he played for than to remember which hand he uses.—Bagumba (talk) 01:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Disambiguation
I got to this page by searching for Bill Donovan of the OSS. I think that name should at least lead to a disambiguation page. --Tcgriffin (talk) 14:39, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930220826/https://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/D/Donovan_Wild_Bill.stm to http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/D/Donovan_Wild_Bill.stm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928001848/http://www.baseballhistorian.com/html/american_heroes.cfm?page=31 to http://www.baseballhistorian.com/html/american_heroes.cfm?page=31
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080719230806/http://www.thedeadballera.com/Obits/Donovan.William.Obit.html to http://www.thedeadballera.com/Obits/Donovan.William.Obit.html

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