Talk:Bill Evans/Archive 1

Untitled
I would like to add quotes, format the text for a discography at the end, and add links. --Thomas Veil 07:11, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC

Denny Zeitlin?
I've deleted Denny Zeitlin from the list of pianists influenced by Bill Evans. He seems quite out of place next to commercial successes like Hancock or Corea. If the article were to list unknowns like Zeitlin, it should mention a whole slew of pianists, probably too many to list. 208.37.116.70 20:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)Mike


 * Hm, well I didn't have any problem with his inclusion, in part because the link is also cemented by Evans' acknowledgement of Zeitlin--DZ's "Quiet Now" was a regular item in Evans' repertoire. I don't think it matters a lot either way, though in many regards Zeitlin or other pianists like Don Friedman are more pertinent in a list of Evans-influenced pianists than Hancock or Corea, where the influence is a lot less obvious/more mediated by their own pronounced stylistic signatures. --ND 04:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree with ND. Doctor Denny Zeitlin is a pianist who has good reasons to be mentioned in the list of of pianists influenced by Bill Evans, and the influence was well supported by DZ's own thirty+ recordings, where Zeitlin's harmonic thinking, his voicings, phrasing and accentuations are in synch with Bill Evans's. One does not need even to be a musician, just play Evans's and Zeitlin's albums one after another to realise their apparent connection, as well as each other's originality. Both men knew and respected each other. Denny Zeitlin is a successful medical doctor, whose patiens are also loyal fans of his music, his records are sold out (check your local record store). From an article about Denny Zeitlin: "He is the jazz world’s most visible Renaissance man-- a full time practicing psychiatrist, a medical school teacher, and a world class jazz musician.” (Los Angeles Times). NB! - not to be misunderstood, I never met Dr. Zeitlin (I wish!), as he is extremely busy with his practice, teaching, touring and recordings, albeit his colleagues in California, doctors who know him well, are very fond of him as a doctor, musician and person. I own a few of his CDs, I wish I could get more, but most of his records are sold out. Steveshelokhonov 02:56, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Re-instating the name of Denny Zeitlin in the list of pianists influenced by Bill Evans. Steve shelok  honov  01:26, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Come on, be serious, you would never see 'denny zeitlin' included in any reputable encyclopedic entry, not that he's not great or whatever, but take it out. It should quite obviously just say hancock/jarrett/corea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.234.22 (talk) 04:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm inclined to agree with the above comment: Both of the lists in that paragraph--Evans' influence in two generations--are too long for the top of the article. What if we move these full lists into the body of the article, in the 'Legacy' section?  The opener can have a short list, like hancock/jarrett/corea, which will help clean it up and make it more readable for anyone looking for a quick summary of who Bill Evans might be.  Tdimhcs (talk) 04:22, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Son?
This fact, or "fact" seems to beg for deletion, or some sort of substantiation, given its vagueness and the denial of the person named: "A little known fact about the artist, he fathered a son (William Bernard Evans) with an unknown woman. His son now lives outside Dallas Texas in the town of McKinney. This son denies any connection to the artist and does not play publicly, but those that have heard him play privately say his talent surpasses that of his father. The son cherishes his privacy and declines all interviews."--Adoorajar 07:53, 11 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Anonymous edit, from an address with a patchy record, no source. I've removed this claim.  --Andrew Norman 09:14, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Bill's son is Evan Evans, born 1975. He is a film composer, and is quite proud of his father and his accomplishments. His information is at evanevans.org. He has composed for films such as 'Fear of Clowns' and 'Killers 2'

Phil Brooks

Most of the above comments about Evan Evans and his feelings for his father are very inaccurate - just read personal comments on EE's own website. This informationa and a recent interview with Bill Evans second wife Nanett rather debunks the 'anonymous' and 'little known' tags. JPP --Jppigott 05:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Jppigott: the edit described as "anonymous" concerned a putative son named "William Bernard Evans", not "Evan Evans" (look at the comments above). The latter is well-attested (not least by his father's song "Letter to Evan"!) but the former is not. --ND 13:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Attention!
This article needs attention. Specifically, the discography. There is only one item (Undercurrent). His other albums are mentioned within the body of the article. I'm afraid that if I add them to the discography, the article will become redundant. I am not sure of what to do here. Any ideas?

The article won't become redundent if a seperate discography is created, as you have sucessfully intergrated them into the narrative structure of the article. just create the article Bill Evans Discography

Mehdau-Evans I believe this information is incorrect
Though Bill Evans' sound has inexorably entered the modern jazz piano language, Brad Mehldau vehemently denies any direct influence by Bill Evans on his playing. In fact, he has been relatively outspoken about the lack of similarity in his and Evans' playing. Mehldau believes that critics are making racial rather than musical judgements when they compare him to Evans.

-deleted Mehldau from the list


 * Mehldau might say that but it's a pretty obvious influence if you listen to his music. Harold Bloom could probably explain all this..... ND 04:30, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

In fact he's more influenced by Keith Jarrett but Mehldau has a sound of his own. As he said, they compare his trio with the one by Bill Evans because it seems obvious when in fact they are very different and he explains it in the liner notes of one of his "Art of the trio" albums. What can't be denied is that the Bill Evans Trio was a reference for a lot of other piano/bass/drums trios and that he was a very talented player. --Joanberenguer 14:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Music speaks stronger than words in this case. However, Mehldau's connection with Evans's musicianship is more apparent in his live performances, than in his more calculated studio recordings. It is not hard to hear that both pianists do share many musical roots, as well as both have equally high level of musicianship and their classical training shows well too. Mehldau has been embracing more current styles and trends, he is evolving faster than Evans did in his time, and his playing may vary more dramatically with different ensembles and settings. While Evans was very deep and confident within his list of favorites, he did not like to go too far outside of his familiar list, style and manner. Mehldau has been demonstrating more freedom experimenting with broader range of styles, various musicians, instruments, etc., and thus his newer compositions may provide enough proof to his statements. Both are great pianist though, and some of their albums sound pretty well connected when played one after another.Steveshelokhonov 03:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

This is completely irrelevant to the opening of the article as it has absolutely nothing to do with Evan's own biography or playing. Add this to the Mehldau article if you want. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.8.104 (talk) 21:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Opening
I confess I find the yoking together of Evans, McCoy Tyner & Oscar Peterson in the opening completely bizarre. Peterson may be a fine, popular pianist but in terms of his influence on later players it's fairly modest compared to the vast & inescapable influence of Evans & Tyner. ND 04:30, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Helen Keane's Pioneering Role?
Helen Keane was the first female manager of a jazz musician? What about Gladys Hampton, the wife of Lionel Hampton? She was his manager throughout his lengthy career.Carlaclaws 06:39, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Buddy Valentino
The article claims that Evans's interest in jazz began at age 12 filling in for his brother in the Buddy Valentino band. That account is found at the IMDB but is very different from the one given in two other published sources. In one, Evan's big break with Buddy Valentino occurred much later, when he returned to New York to begin his professional career. In other, his interest in jazz began, yes at age 12, but first as a listener, after hearing big band recordings by Tommy Dorsey and Harry James. His first foray in jazz as a musician was as a fill-in pianist in a rehearsal band where his brother played trumpet. His brother Harry was only two years older than Bill--the school story is probably the more correct. Can we get some higher quality reference than IMDB to source the other claim?Professor marginalia 18:05, 4 October 2007
 * Accurate fact indeed, and well supported by the Joel Simpson's biography of Bill Evans among other sources. I wrote the IMDb biography for Bill Evans a few years ago, and also contributed to this article in Wikipedia. I studied piano and music history in Leningrad/St. Petersburg, Russia, since the 1960s, and maintained stage performances as my second profession for evenings and concert tours (my day job is medical). Playing arrangements by Bill Evans is an essential part of my daily piano practice routine. This article is improving, and quite a few good people are contributing their time and knowledge to making both IMDb and Wikipedia better. Steve  shelok  honov  23:59, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Style and approach
''Davis loved the sound Evans got from the piano. At the time Evans was playing block chords and Davis wrote in his autobiography "Bill had this quiet fire that I loved on piano. The way he approached it, the sound he got was like crystal notes or sparkling water cascading down from some clear waterfall." [...] Evans also penned the heralded liner notes for Kind of Blue, comparing the improvisation of jazz to Zen art.''
 * More of this, please. Viriditas (talk) 00:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Bill Evans and Jim Hall-Undercurrent (album cover).jpg
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Blue in Green?
This article states that Blue in Green on Miles Davis' Kind of Blue is Bill Evan's composition. Davis denies this as a false rumour in his autobiography. Remove? Orecalimo (talk) 17:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, the notes accompanying the compilation «Bill Evans - The Complete Riverside Recordings», published in 1984 give credit to both Evans and Davis ((Davis-Evans) Jazz Horn Music/Warner-Tamerlane Publ. -- BMI). --Jazzeur (talk) 01:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

No computers
I find the following sentence (from the Historical Impact chapter at the bottom) a bit puzzling:

His 60s recordings titled "Conversations With Myself" and "Further Conversations With Myself" were innovative solo performances involving multiple layers of music recorded acoustically without computers in studio by Bill Evans himself.


 * Why does it state 'without computers'? Firstly, in the 60s there probably weren't any computers in any music studios, and secondly, if there were, why is it important? I think that part of the sentence should be elaborated on or just removed.

217.157.237.210 (talk) 21:44, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Agree. Move to strike. The use of analog taping systems did marvel in those days. --Jazzeur (talk) 21:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Took the liberty of changing that bit, also got rid of the word acoustically, thought that didn't make much sense either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.43.18.26 (talk • contribs)

Brad Mehldau
The opening paragraph has gained a lengthy discussion of his NOT being a Bill Evans acolyte. Now, I can see his getting a mention in the list of Evans followers, if we're in agreement that he belongs there. & I can see him being omitted from the list entirely, if we're in agreement that he doesn't. But I can't fathom why this article--which is about Evans, not about Mehldau!--needs to have the present discussion, especially in the opening paragraph of all places. I and another user have tried to delete the passage but it keeps getting reinstated.

Discuss. --ND (talk) 08:45, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Position One very important element of an artist's contribution to his art is the influence or school he may have on others. In the case of Bill Evans, many critics came to the conclusion that Brad Meldhau's style (meaning his normal approach to a theme) included aspects of Bill Evans play. Brad Meldhau says that it is too reductive to single-out Evans as his only influence and he claims to have his own style. The two positions are not incompatible; the critics see this situation one way (one of Meldhau's influence is Evans) and Meldhau sees it another way. So, both views should appear in the text.

--Jazzeur (talk) 05:36, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Fine, but put it elsewhere. It doesn't belong in the opening paragraph. --ND (talk) 03:56, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Jazzeur, just want to clear up I did not "vandalise" the page when I removed the Brad M. info from the opening paragraph. I just failed to read this discussion first and I apologize for that. I will be more careful in the future. It seems a healthy compromise where you put it I guess.Airproofing (talk) 18:27, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine. --Jazzeur (talk) 01:00, 14 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't really see how it belongs in the article at all. It does belong in Mehldau's article, but other than a brief mention as an artist considered by some to be inspired by Evans, it's out of place here. Interested readers will click on a link and read about Mehldau; we don't have to discuss Mehldau's opinion of his own influences anywhere but at his article. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 15:15, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks good now. Thanks. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 22:26, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, this has gotten nasty. I've blocked User:Accor19 for abuse of multiple accounts, and blocked his alternate accounts as well. Thanks for pointing that out, Jazzeur. Now, can we please talk instead of edit warring? --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 16:02, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Several issues here that you're just not addressing:1.) The specious nature of the references you've used for Mehldau - especially the last, which is simply a record review of Mehldau's that mentions Bill Evans. 2.) Mehldau's viewpoint of his own playing and his own influences, or lack of, trumps yours because he is the best authority of his own playing, no? To assume otherwise is just that - an assumption 3.) Why do you make that assumption, and why is it so important to you that Mehldau's name remain here? -- Fmrnt —Preceding undated comment added 00:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC).
 * First, the proper procedure to discuss an issue is not to make the change that you desire and then put a note in the discussion section of the article that you are interested in. It's the other way around. Second, you are another sock puppet account of Accor19 and I don't have a real interest in debating with people using such tactics; I will therefore not address your point number 3). Third, Mehldau is a great pianist and he is entitled to his own views concerning his play and influences; t== Things I've found about Evans playing the Fender-Rhodes piano ==

While Evans was an acoustic pianist, he released soma material which also included some electric piano intermissions from 1970 (about 5 LPs). This fact has often been criticised by purists. Here I'm putting a couple of fragments from interviews, thus it's sourced material :)

"I am interested in other keyboard sounds, but basically I'm an acoustic pianist. I’ve been happy to use the Fender-Rhodes to add a little colour to certain performances but only as an adjunct, he later explained. It's hard for people to recognize individuals on an electric piano. Because it is an electric instrument, it's hard for a personality to come through."

- Interview with Chris Albertson, The Jazz Set, 1971

"I don't think too much about the electronic thing, except that it's kind of fun to have it as an alternate voice. Like, I've used the Fender- Rhodes piano on a couple of records. I don't really look on it as a piano— merely an alternate keyboard instrument, that offers a certain kind of sound that’s appropriate sometimes. I find that it’s kind of a refreshing auxiliary to the piano— but I don't need it, you know. I guess it’s for other people to judge how effective it’s been on my records; I enjoyed it, anyway. I don't enjoy spending a lot of time with the electric piano. I mean, if I play it for a period of time, then I quickly tire of it, and I want to get back to the acoustic piano."

- Interview with Les Tomkins, 1972

I don't know where to put this
 * I think I'm going to put this in the article anyway. I somebody finds a better place, change it, but I think It's important material. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.13.19 (talk) 14:28, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Hard bop?
Hello, just wondering about the assignment of hard bop as a genre for Bill Evans, I certainly agree with the modal jazz, Third stream, Cool Jazz and post-bop labels but not sure about hard bop. What Bill Evans albums would come under hard bop, or was he a sideman on some earlier in his career? Tristanf (talk) 13:08, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Totally agree with Tristan --Jppigott (talk) 02:50, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Tristan too. Horace Silver is definitely hard bop. The sounds of Bill Evans and of Horace Silver are as different as night and day. --RobertGloverJr (talk) 21:21, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Marcin Wasilewski
The link goes to the soccer player, not the piano player. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.26.122.176 (talk) 01:43, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Link removed. Thanks. Airproofing (talk) 01:16, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Cause of Death
it states he had a perforated liver. There is no such thing. I am a board certified hepatologist. Please correct to say end stage liver disease or a cirrhotic liver. Thanks, David F. Dies, MD, MBA, The Liver Center at GastroIntestinal Specialists, Shreveport, LA74.245.113.236 (talk) 02:52, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Anyone care to find a source to back up the article in this case? It sure does sound silly to say "perforated liver" so if there's no source available using this term let's use the above alternative, "end stage liver disease." Tdimhcs (talk) 04:32, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Hard bop?
Hello, just wondering about the assignment of hard bop as a genre for Bill Evans, I certainly agree with the modal jazz, Third stream, Cool Jazz and post-bop labels but not sure about hard bop. What Bill Evans albums would come under hard bop, or was he a sideman on some earlier in his career? Tristanf (talk) 13:08, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Totally agree with Tristan --Jppigott (talk) 02:50, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Tristan too. Horace Silver is definitely hard bop. The sounds of Bill Evans and of Horace Silver are as different as night and day. --RobertGloverJr (talk) 21:21, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Marcin Wasilewski
The link goes to the soccer player, not the piano player. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.26.122.176 (talk) 01:43, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Link removed. Thanks. Airproofing (talk) 01:16, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Cause of Death
it states he had a perforated liver. There is no such thing. I am a board certified hepatologist. Please correct to say end stage liver disease or a cirrhotic liver. Thanks, David F. Dies, MD, MBA, The Liver Center at GastroIntestinal Specialists, Shreveport, LA74.245.113.236 (talk) 02:52, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Anyone care to find a source to back up the article in this case? It sure does sound silly to say "perforated liver" so if there's no source available using this term let's use the above alternative, "end stage liver disease." Tdimhcs (talk) 04:32, 20 October 2011 (UTC)