Talk:Billie Piper/Archive 1

Leiane Paul Piper?
Since when has her birth name had that spelling? Moreover, it ought to be noted somehow that Billie remains her 'real' name. I remember from Billie's early website :


 * Q: Is Billie your real name?
 * A: Yes, my real name is Billie Piper. I was registered as Leanne for three weeks, but luckily my parents changed their minds!

-- Smjg 12:24, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

She said in her autobiography that it was 'Leanne'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.164.250.214 (talk) 19:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Verification
So it seems we need to verify the chart positions of Billie's singles and albums. All of Piper's UK discography and chart positions are found in a sidebar in the Doctor Who Magazine interview that I added to the References section, so that's OK. (The magazine says that the album Honey to the B made it to #14, but Honey to the B says it debuted at #1. Not sure which is correct, but I'm leaving the DWM citation on the page for now.)  I haven't been able to find a source for the Australian and US chart positions, other than the Honey to the B and Walk of Life pages here on Wikipedia (and of course, I don't know where they got their info from). I don't know much about pop music, really, and I haven't noticed extensive footnoting on the discographies of other pop singers here on Wikipedia. Does anyone know what we need to do to meet the standard for verification, and how best to cite whatever we find? (For a bit I was writing "(Cook, 2006)" after each UK chart position, but that looked really dumb so I reverted it.) Help from anyone is welcome. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * If you researched on the net, you would actually find this information. I've added the bloody sources, ok? Sarz 09:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey, I'm not the one who put the "not verified" and "fact" tags on the page. Yamla was.  I was just trying to respond responsibly.  In fact, I did a fair bit of research, and found both online and print sources for the UK chart positions (and added both to the "References" section); it's the Australian ones I couldn't find.  The Rage playlist site that you added isn't terribly helpful unless you happen to know the exact week that each of Billie's songs were on the playlist — even if you perform a detailed search, it gives a list of every time one of her songs was played on the show.


 * I'm not going to put the tags back on, though. You can argue with Yamla if he or she isn't satisfied. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:44, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm the one who added the tag. All information is meant to be cited and I must say, you (that is, those of you who are adding content, rather than people like me who make only minor corrections to this page) are doing a great job getting the citations in place.  This page is already markedly improved.  --Yamla 19:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok ok, sorry for snapping. I just had a rough day, and I'm sorry for taking it out on you.


 * I must admit, the Rage playlist isn't very helpful unless you do know what you're looking for. But it's the only reliable source I could find with those chart positions. :) Sarz 00:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

For the record
Her parents originally conceived of her name as Leiane Piper but changed it to her full name Billie PAUL Piper, as they were intent on boys. Billie may be questionable as to gender but definately NOT Paul!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.200.116.132 (talk • contribs) 19:41, April 4, 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that "Paul" is hardly a feminine name, but we'd need an actual citation that that was Mandy and Paul Piper's reason for choosing a masculine-sounding name before putting it in the article. Maybe Billie's parents wanted to make some point about boys' and girls' names.  Without a citation, we can't say that they chose the masculine-sounding name because they were "keen on boys". —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:57, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe Paul is an intersex name, like Michael (c.f. Michael Learned who played the mother in The Waltons). 2.28.151.215 (talk) 21:45, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Paul Piper the actor
Numerous sources call him a builder, and while many actors take on casual work to support themselves, the only production IMDb (he's the only paul piper in there) has him in is some documenary about billie. So i think it's safe to edit that.Amo 11:58, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * If he's a builder, then I don't see that his occupation is worth mentioning in the article. ("Actor" was notable only because it suggested a family tradition.)  I've removed the occupation entirely, and added Billie's mum's name. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 15:59, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Leanne vs. Leiane
I don't really understand what this means: "changed her given name from "Leanne" (originally Leiane) three weeks after registering her birth". So they called her Leanne, changed it to Leiane, and then billie?Amo 13:08, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't understand it either, although to me it looks like they first called her Leiane, then Leanne, then Billie. Can we get some verification of this? --Metropolitan90 14:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Well the source above is the only one i've ever found, and it says "Leanne", although as it was from a spoken interview it prob says more about the journalist - i mean, i doubt she spelled it out for them. Perhaps the alternate spelling was added to the article by someone to whom it is the normal spelling, or just possibly someone with a personal connection(?). Until the other one can be sourced, i'll change it back to Leanne. Amo 00:32, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course, as soon as we think we've resolved the issue, along comes this article from The Herald (Glasgow) which uses "Leiane". —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The name is recorded in the BMD Index as LEIAN PAUL PIPER Swindon Q4 1982, mother's maiden name KENT. (It is not unusual for a birth to be registered in the following quarter) --jmb 01:47, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Is this quoted online anywhere? There's a horrific (mostly unsigned) post war below about this, which would be settled by link to a quote of this BMD info.  --Lexein (talk) 12:54, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a scanned copy here. It also has the registration of Billie Paul Piper on the same page reference, showing that the name change was legally registered in the same quarter as the birth was registered --StupidButGenius (talk) 21:07, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Listing
I know that many fans of Billie's work in Doctor Who and others consider her a sex symbol. Should she be added to the list thereof?12.76.66.126 21:38, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No, and especially not with a reliable citation. Wasn't the category deleted, anyway? --Yamla 21:49, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Height & weight
Height gotten from http://shillpages.com/dw/piperb.shtml and from http://www.celebritywonder.com/html/billiepiper.html and weight quote from http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/billie_piper.html Many other webpages also give the same information.


 * Please see WP:CITE for how to add citations. In general, sites like shillpages aren't reliable for citations but I happen to trust Shillpages and so this would work as a citation for me.  I don't speak for everyone else, of course.  --Yamla 21:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

"Height 'gotten'"? Is that American slang for 'obtained'? Or 'got'? Not sure what the 'ten' adds apart from putting poor spelling and grammar on display. Please learn to use a dictionary before contributing to an encyclopaedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.141.137 (talk) 00:53, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You could of course check a dictionary yourself before claiming others have made mistake, may I suggest Wiktionary, the free dictionary? You might find the entry at gotten useful. Nanonic (talk) 01:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The US web site, Wictionary, is hardly a reliable source for matters of the English language! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.214.202 (talk) 03:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

"Gotten" is actually of BRITISH origin, and was the past participle of "to get" in Middle English. It is not "slang", nor did it originate in America. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.225.149.5 (talk) 15:07, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Bisexual actors
Not sure if it right that she is tagged as a bisexual actor in the categories. I know she has a quote in Gay Community News and she also mentioned on The Chris Moyles Show on 2nd June 2006 that she had kissed an actress in the film released today and finds women attractive, but doe this really make her a bisexual actress? Steve-Ho 10:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * No. Skinmeister 00:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't use it to categorise her, but if you want to mention it in the article, you could link to bicurious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amoammo (talk • contribs) 00:14, June 4, 2006 (UTC)
 * Amended text in personal life section to reflect this link Steve-Ho 07:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * What does a person have to do to come under the bisexual actors category then? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leonardo2505 (talk • contribs) 07:51, June 6, 2006 (UTC)


 * Dating both men and women would presumably help. (And no, it doesn't have to be at the same time!) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I've removed the category again, and condensed the mention in "personal life" to something slightly more accurate. I've also removed the quote section, because a) it's on the Billie Piper wiktionary page, and b) it seems odd to have that be the only quotation from her. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * She has declared, very openly, in very clear terms, her attraction to women - that is, her bisexuality. She doesn't need to have encounters. Many virgins are straight, many are bisexual, many are gay/lesbian. NerriTunn 18:31, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If there's a category for bi-curious people, I think that would be more appropriate, since she's only stated an attraction. That is, she's expressed a bisexual orientation, but has not adopted (at least in public) a bisexual identity or demonstrated bisexual behaviour.  Given that it's only one out of the three possible meanings of "bisexual", I think that based on the GCN quote alone it's more appropriate to keep her out of the category.  (Unless there's more discussion of this in her autobiography?) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually I think this "bi-curious" idea is a creepy idea (you feel it is OK?) used to demean bisexuals. I don't know why you dragged it in unless you have some agenda. Perhaps you think bisexuality is abnormal and that is why you want to draw the category in abnormal terms (no one objects to other categories - but with bi/homosexuality they think it is a taint and are very eager to pander to bigots). Read what she said. And read the article on bisexuality - she is well within its parameters. NerriTunn 19:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Erm... if you knew me and my family you'd know that the suggestion that I think bisexuality is abnormal is laughable. I'm very supportive of LGBT rights, and have even protested in favor of gay marriage.  If you look above, you'll see that I didn't suggest "bi-curious" — Amoammo did.  I went with it simply because I thought that it was a more accurate and concise description of what she said in the interview: she is attracted to women, and "might" want to sleep with one.


 * I don't have an opinion one way or the other about "bi-curious", but I don't see it (or bisexuality) as "creepy". I see it as distinct from bisexuality, insofar as bisexuality is more a fixed identity ("this is who I am") and bi-curiosity (is that the right term?) is an expression of potential ("this is who I might be"). I also do not think either category has a "taint" — my sole interest is in accuracy, and keeping with the BLP policy.


 * To that end, I think we should go with Foxhill's compromise below. Aside from the question of bisexual vs. bi-curious, I hope that everyone can agree that if we incorporate the quote into the "personal life" section and have the link to wikiquote (both of which NerriTunn removed in reverting me) the "Quotes" section is redundant.  NerriTunn, if you want to change the wording of the "personal life" section again, please don't revert the other changes (such as the wikiquote link or the smaller reference section) — just edit the "personal life" section alone.  Thanks. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If this is causing so much strife, why don't you just replace the line "She has also stated that she is bisexual but has yet to have sex with a woman." and say "in an interview with the Gay Community News in 2006, she spoke of her attraction to members of her own sex stating 'Yeah, I fancy women big time... I check them out more than I check men out.' " reference it and job done. Both bisexual and bi-curious are disputed terms in many fields so if they cause friction between editors, why not just not use them. The quote gives her position on the matter, she herself hasn't stated implicitly whether she is one or the other, so there is no need to try to interpret the source, just say what you see. And remember to keep Biographies of living persons in mind, if you label her bisexual or bi-curious with nothing to back you up and she gets all lawsuit happy, it's your problem - Foxhill 20:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If we go with this, then the only question is whether to include Category:Bisexual English actors or not.  I'll put it back in now, in the interests of compromise, but I think we should discuss the matter further.  I'll also ask for opinions at Wikipedia talk:Categorization/Gender, race and sexuality, to see whether there's a precedent for cases like this (where an individual has made statements suggesting a sexual orientation, but not used the term themselves). —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

The closest thing I can think of to an actual precedent for a case like this pertained to Kristanna Loken, an actress who stated in an interview that she was attracted to and had dated both men and women, but her categorization as a bisexual actor was disputed on the basis that she hadn't actually used the specific word "bisexual". That's not exactly analogous to this case, true, but it's the closest there is to a similar precedent, as far as I know...and as of today, the bisexual actors category is present on her article.

For what it's worth, I can see and understand both sides of this matter. Certainly it's appropriate to include her quote in the article, but be aware that it is problematic to extrapolate an identity from a statement of this type. It can certainly point toward bisexuality, but it could also point toward lesbianism ("I check them out more than I check men out") — and, for that matter, you can't entirely rule out the possibility of a David Bowie move here (i.e. going for the shock value by "revealing" something she'll retract later). One of the reasons sexuality is such a complicated and controversial categorization scheme for people is that orientation isn't, in and of itself, a visible characteristic; it's one that we can only identify through a person's statements and actions, and those can both be inconsistent with a person's internal orientation setting. In other words, we can only identify a person's sexual orientation through what they consciously choose to reveal about it.

So in terms of the article content, we should certainly stick to quoting her as precisely as possible and not inferring anything she hasn't said. WP:BLP is pretty clear on that part. Whether the category is right or wrong, I couldn't say, but hopefully my input can help direct the ongoing discussion a bit. I'm also going to post this to the LGBT notice board for additional input. Bearcat 00:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * FWIW, the WP:LGBT guidelines (which are still sort of in development) would (probably) include Ms Piper as a bisexual. We use the rule(s) of thumb:


 * 1) The person identifies as bisexual, regardless of relationships, ie Billie Joe Armstrong.
 * 2) A person has had documented, notable relationships with both sexes, such as Marlon Brando.
 * 3) A person has been alleged, with evidence, by reliable sources to be, or have been, in a relationship with both sexes, ie Lord Byron and Alfred Kinsey.
 * If you interpret the quote to say "I'm bisexual" (and in my opinion, that's what it says), then yes, she belongs in the category. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  01:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Fair enough — although I think the word "maybe" in the quote complicates the issue. If Billie Joe Armstrong had merely said "I might be bisexual", would that qualify him for the category? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * An aside: a similar (but more heated) discussion seems to be going on at Talk:Michelle Rodriguez. I hope we can conduct ourselves better than that. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

She has confirmed herself to be bisexual. She even stated in a news paper interview that she has thought about having sex with her female friends. That is not a joke. That is true. Cross my heart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.108.135.8 (talk) 16:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Autobiography question
Anyone know if Piper is really writing her autobiography, or is it (as is often the case with young celebrities) being ghost-written? Martpol 12:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * According to The Independent on July 21, she was offered a ghostwriter, and initially turned it down, hoping to write it herself; however, she's found that various work commitments have prevented her from being able to write, so she's changed her mind and will have a ghostwriter. I couldn't find the story on The Independent ' own website, but if you go here and scroll down to "Merchandise" (or search in the page for "ghostwriter") you'll find the source. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The Billie Story
While searching on iTunes, I came across "The Billie Story", a spoken-word album by Billie. Not sure if this should be added to the page or not. Anyone?

212.32.73.168 16:37, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's by something call Chrome Dreams, it's rubbish. It's from 1999 and is highly inaccurate even for then.

Sally Lockheart
Man, I thought they were pushing it having Billie play a 19 year old on Doctor Who. Now she's going to play a 16 year old Victorian orphan? That should be good. 204.69.40.7 20:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

B-sides?
Is is standard practice for musician articles to list B-sides of singles in a separate section? I wasn't able to find such a section in a quick view of other musicians' pages; some discography articles (such as The Beatles discography and R.E.M. discography) have the B-sides listed along with the singles, while others don't mention the B-sides at all. Should we consolidate the recently added B-sides into the singles, or remove them? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Original name
The GRO's index for birth registrations for the December quarter of 1982 quite clearly shows her name as "Leian Paul Piper". The relevant page can be seen at this page on the respected Ancestry.co.uk genealogical site. I'd suggest that any other spelling is either a case of the name being misremembered, or it being mistranscribed in interviews. Clearly the article needs revising accordingly. Anyone checking the link should be warned that the page is a fairly large download. Silverhelm 23:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC).

Award
She won an National Television Award for her part on Doctor Who this year ... I don't know where to put in this information so if someone would? Michaelritchie200 19:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Photo for 'Career/Music' section?
I see that the 'Film and Television' and 'Doctor Who' sections both have an illustrative photo, could this section do with a photo of Billie in her 'pop star' years? Skylarkingnz 09:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see why not — although the anti-fair use extremists might object, I think it would add to the article. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

MySpace?
An anon recently removed a comment about Piper's supposed music comeback (based on a post at with the edit summary "MySpace is believed to be run by an imposter, therefore this music news cannot be trusted." I dont doubt the anon's comment, especially since I've seen no other sources besides this MySpace page saying that Piper intends to return to pop music — but I'd like some more confirmation that the MySpace page is a fake.  If nothing else, it would be good to know that for sure so that we can deal with people re-adding material from it. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 14:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Divorce
The article states she and Evans were divorced last September, and gives as a reference; however, there's a single reference to the divorce in that article and that does not state it is finalized (nor does it give a date). Today we have, in which Billie herself clearly states "I'm not even divorced yet...". I'm adjusting the article to reflect this. Radagast 22:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Why?
One thing I'd like to learn from the article is the reason that she left (decided to leave?) Doctor Who. It seems to me that the show was hugely positive career move for her, so why quit? Dmforcier 22:11, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Is This true?
Is it true that Billie was rushed into hospital because she went blind??? plz answer the question plz!!! From Jonni 11:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's true, but the blindness was temporary. It seems to have been triggered by high-intensity flash bulbs from paparazzi cameras.  The incident was really pretty minor, and doesn't merit inclusion in the Wikipedia article, IMO. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 15:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Front Page picture
Far too large obviously, can someone with more skills than me resize it? TheLostProphet 00:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Resized and captioned.

As aside, people, this image has been added and removed, added and removed. Everything on the image page seems to indicate that it is within WP:IUP. Is there a reason for the serial editing that I'm not getting, or is it vandalism/misunderstanding.-Leeson 01:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Tabloid rumours
NOTW is a notorious rag. They are infamous for making stuff up. There have been a million rumours and tabloid reports, going back yonks, that Billie is "in talks" and will shortly be returning to DW. All proved false. The only source for the story is a quote from an unnamed "insider" which could mean anything, and Billie has been pretty clear in interviews that the tabloid reports are, basically, total crap. There is always a possibility she may return, yes, but something purely speculative like that should not be added to her page on the basis of one infamous tabloid story with no sources. Until someone at the BBC or Billie herself says or even hints at a return, the rumours do not deserve their own section and certainly not with the current wording. 81.1.92.49 06:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Addeed this to her page, as it has now been confirmed. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7114699.stm . Ben sewell (talk) 12:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I Want Candy?
It says on eBay, Amazon and HMV Online that a track called I Want Candy is on the Honey To The B album ... but I've heard of it nowhere else. Is it true? 212.32.86.68 18:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Mrs Fox ?
The website quoted just has "Billie became Mrs Fox this afternoon". That just seems another way of saying that she married a Mr Fox. What is needed is a statement that she will using the name Fox professionally which I think is unlikely. I looked at a few other Wiki pages for female celebrities and can't see any with a statement like "(now known as Mrs Fox or Billie Fox)", it seems unnecessary as just the details of the husband is usually given. if she does decide to use the name "Fox" professionally then that can also be added. --jmb (talk) 15:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I would have thought it extremely unlikely that she would change her professional name. After all, she didn't when she was Mrs Evans. -- Arwel (talk) 17:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)