Talk:Billy McFarland/Archive 1

Paid editing disclosure
This notice is to disclose that I, User:Bernie44, was paid to create this entry. Of course, I claim no ownership over it. Whether paid or not, I always aim to contribute positively to Wikipedia and to edit within Wikipedia's guidelines, with properly sourced, neutral, constructive edits. I hope my work is judged based on those standards.--Bernie44 (talk) 00:05, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Self-promotional bio
It appears from the above that this dude either created this article himself, or paid someone to do it for him. He previously wasn't notable but likely will be now after this FyreFestival blows up in the media as one of the biggest scams in modern history. 152.130.15.14 (talk) 19:16, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Fyre Festival is a redirect. Should it be changed to its own article?
I say yes. What do others here think? Bk33725681 (talk) 23:41, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * When you ask a question, it's customary to wait for an answer before acting uniltaterally. -00:41, 29 April 2017 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by JasonAQuest (talk • contribs)

Yes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:a000:1607:79:90ee:4113:7ef1:49c4 (talk) 02:31, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

WP:UNDUE, WP:FALSEBALANCE and WP:BLP
This article is a BLP and must adhere to all BLP requirements. Additionally, the article is fraught with UNDUE and FALSEBALANCE material content, especially on the festival. I've edited en masse the article. If someone wishes to add material about the festival, go and add it to the Fyre festival article rather than here. And calling the subject a scam artist and conman will only end up in the adding editor getting immediately blocked (and for a long time). So discuss here before adding any contentious material. Thanks. Lourdes 01:27, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Lourdes I understand your concern about this issue with regards to the festival and agree with you but I think the fact that the coverage on this page for Magnises does not mention any of the negative coverage the business has had (see https://www.businessinsider.com.au/magnises-complaints-from-members-2017-1?r=US&IR=T for one example) can not be considered neutral. There is also the issue someone called Bernie44 has been paid to edit this page. It's not necessarily the case that the user has added information which would fall under false balance but in my opinion any paid articles or edits should be scrutinized. It would be helpful to hear from the user who was paid for the edit. EmWinn (talk) 02:24, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

There is too much concern about neutrality in the revisions to this article. Deleting accurate negative content under the guise of "neutrality" is in fact not accurate or neutral. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:a000:1607:79:90ee:4113:7ef1:49c4 (talk) 02:31, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello. Thanks for your comments. If you believe that "Deleting accurate negative content under the guise of "neutrality" is in fact not accurate or neutral.", you've not understood WP:BLP and WP:BIO at all. If the negative content directly relates to the subject of the article, summarize the same as per FALSEBALANCE and place it in this article, if and only if the said negative content matches up to our WP:EXCEPTIONAL standards (which requires multiple reliable sources to quote the same negative stuff before it can be placed in this article). If the same relates to the subject's companies or events, then please place the said material in articles about the companies or events. If you need help in understanding how to edit on Wikipedia, feel free to ask. At the same time, any more explicit non-adherence to WP:BLP claiming negative stuff is sourced, may result in editors getting sanctioned or blocked. I would suggest extreme caution and discussion of material here before any controversial material is added. Additionally, if you believe any editor is paid (given their self-acceptance above), and if you believe their edits don't match our editing standards, report the same to WP:COIN, the appropriate noticeboard. On this talk page, focus on the content rather than the character or background of any editor. Thanks. Lourdes  04:42, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Lourdes, you are right that I don't understand the WP:whatever at all. I am not a serious Wikipedia contributor. I am just telling you that the article as written is not accurate or neutral. This guy is noteworthy for one primary thing, which is the failure and cancelation of the Fyre music festival yesterday. The content about the other businesses is not really relevant or noteworthy, except to share a background about what he did before Fyre Festival. The content related to the other businesses has links that are 3-5 years old, written by a paid author, and most likely the info is biased and out of date. There have been more recent negative articles about those businesses that are not linked or sourced. More importantly, those businesses are not noteworthy or relevant, yet they remain as the lead information in this article under some claim of neutrality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.143.129.78 (talk) 19:42, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your note. But that's how Wikipedia is and hopefully will be in the future. Our objective is specifically to not destroy the character of individuals because of stuff that happens with their companies, their relations, their friends and so on. Wikipedia is not a tabloid. If you have material on the Fyre Festival, please go ahead and post it in the article on Fyre Festival, whether or not you believe this person's noteworthiness is because of the festival. The maximum that the Fyre Festival will/should get in this article is a line or two, given the current balance of this article. Nevertheless, while you may have time, please read WELLKNOWN to know how negative content about celebrities may be added to articles. Write back for any assistance. Thanks. Lourdes  03:27, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
 * How about adding that he is the subject of a $100 million dollar lawsuit over the Fyre Festival, or is that not notable either?. This article is woefully unbalanced considering the exceptional amount of negative coverage. Reliable sources are noting ethical issues .   2602:304:788B:DF50:8CDD:5461:389A:631B (talk) 16:35, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yay, unlocked so sane people can edit. 2602:304:788B:DF50:8CDD:5461:389A:631B (talk) 20:43, 1 May 2017 (UTC)


 * As per WP:EXCEPTIONAL and WP:WELLKNOWN, you would need multiple reliable sources and not just one, before you add controversial material or attempt to re-add material that has been challenged and removed earlier by any editor. I shall strongly reiterate my suggestion: "Any controversial material added without discussion is bound to be reverted in case it does not adhere to the policies I have mentioned (namely, EXCEPTIONAL and WELLKNOWN) or WP:BLP." Therefore, discuss any controversial material addition here, quoting the exact lines you wish to add (and provide the links to the reliable sources, based on which you wish to add the said material); and once consensus is evident here for the addition of the material, the same can be added to the article. Wikipedia works on consensus; and any controversial material continuously being added unilaterally and against our non-negotiable WP:BLP policy, will result in the page again getting protected and the disrupting editor getting sanctioned or blocked. Thanks. Lourdes  01:19, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi again Lourdes , seeing as you seem pretty welcoming of questions, I have some for you. I had a look at WP:EXCEPTIONAL and I am not sure why what I wanted to add about Magnises would fall under that? Secondly, is this man a public figure under WP:WELLKNOWN ? I understand he is probably notable and should therefore have a page. Anyway, presuming it does and he is, I found some sources that show that Magnises has had negative coverage (in addition to the Business Insider article I posted above). 1. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/billy-mcfarland-fyre-festival-magnises-tickets_us_5907a43fe4b0bb2d08708ae6 2. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-28/coachella-for-the-super-rich-ends-in-disaster 3. https://news.vice.com/story/rich-millennials-paid-thousands-for-ja-rules-fyre-fest-and-are-now-stranded-on-an-island-in-disaster-relief-tents 4. http://www.teenvogue.com/story/fyre-festival-is-being-sued-for-dollar100-million 5. https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/05/02/fyre-festivals-collapse-may-have-sent-founders-business-plans-up-in-smoke-wells.html 6. http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/new-york-jet-setters-surprised-fyre-festival-chaos-article-1.3130499 7. http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/music-festivals/7777047/fyre-festival-timeline-fiasco 8. http://abc7news.com/entertainment/fyre-festival-promoters-facing-class-action-lawsuit/1946287/ 9. http://au.complex.com/music/2017/05/billy-mcfarland-fyre-festival-explainer 10. http://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/02/fyre-festival-cancelled/ 11. http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/92082548/the-founder-of-the-disastrous-fyre-festival-has-a-history-of-overpromising-elite-access 12. http://people.com/music/fyre-festival-lawsuit-filed-against-ja-rule-billy-mcfarland-celebrity-lawyer-mark-geragos/

So that gives us 13 sources with negative coverage of Magnises (including the Business Insider one). These sources mostly discuss the fact that any perks of Magnises were not delivered, patrons feeling unsafe at events, and the fact there are 17 complaints about the business before the Better Business Bureau.

Have a look and let me know what you think. I personally feel this should satisfy the WP:EXCEPTIONAL requirement and at least some of what is mentioned in these articles should be added to the page in the name of balance. Thanks EmWinn (talk) 05:34, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for listing the sources. I've had a look at the sources. Let me assist you in understanding how to suggest improvements to this page:
 * In case the controversial statements are about a business, then they don't belong in this article about the subject.
 * However, in case reliable sources are directly addressing the subject of this article (for example the people.com source or the stuff.co.nz source), then the allegations written in all these sources can be summarized in one line or two and placed within the article. The reason WP:FALSEBALANCE exists above WP:EXCEPTIONAL is to advise editors to not add positive or negative material that seems out of balance with the rest of the article. The current news (both tabloid and reliable) may increasingly make one perceive that Billy McFarland is perhaps only known for the disastrous festival. Wikipedia deliberately and diligently ensures that such one-sided perception is not perpetrated in the structure of a living person's biography. In other words, if the article's current size is taken as a benchmark, it is not possible to convert this page into an attack page by writing predominantly negative stuff; however true or well-sourced it might be. WP:NPOV exists to ensure this. So what I'll suggest is, please write below the exact line(s) which you wish to add to the article (these should directly talk about McFarland and not about his businesses' failure or success) and let's see how consensus is out here with respect to the same. Thanks. Lourdes  11:24, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

I have no idea how to use this. William McFarland, age 27, is prisoner number 91186-054 at the Otisville prison, home to countless white collar criminals and the same place Michael Cohen (Trump's fixer) has requested to serve his sentence. This can be verified at the Bureau of Prison inmate locator, https://www.bop.gov/inmateloc/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelo66 (talk • contribs) 21:29, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

lawsuit
We should put in here that Billy McFarland is currently the defendant in 2 class action lawsuits over his involvment in the Fyre Festival. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Texaco77 (talk • contribs) 22:55, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Untitled
Why does this person even have a page?

It's quite clear this person;

• Either self-made or had someone make this page • This page I nothing more than promotional • This person does not meet - by any standard - a 'famous' or 'well-known' person. If anything, this person - a crook (and not one - in any category, I can think of - as being of 'exceptional note') - is famous for that, and unless it's (re)written as such, it shouldn't even be here

I don't understand; it's the 21st century, and I've scanned most of the above notes, etc., and 2 things struck me; 1) It's quite clear most people concur; 'who is this person? This is self-promotion', etc. 2) Why - in the 21st century - is it taking an exorbitant amount of time to simply remove this? UNOwenNYC —Preceding undated comment added by UNOwenNYC (talk • contribs) 12:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 March 2018
Change this:

William Z. McFarland (born 1991) is an American business owner who is the founder and CEO of three companies: Spling, Magnises, and Fyre Media. McFarland was placed under arrest on June 30, 2017, and charged with wire fraud in Manhattan federal court related to the organization of the Fyre Festival to promote the Fyre music booking app.

To this:

William Z. McFarland (born 1991) is an American business owner, admitted fraudster and founder of three companies: Spling, Magnises, and Fyre Media. McFarland was placed under arrest on June 30, 2017, and charged with wire fraud in Manhattan federal court related to the organization of the Fyre Festival to promote the Fyre music booking app.

Change this:

In March 2018, Billy MacFarland pleaded guilty of fraud and admitted to using fake documents to attract investors to put more than $26 million (£18.7m) into his company.

To this:

In March 2018, Billy MacFarland pleaded guilty to two charges of fraud and admitted to using fake documents to attract investors to put more than $26 million (£18.7m) into his company. He agreed to forfeit over $26 million and is awaiting his sentencing on June 21, 2018. Honkytonky93 (talk) 22:59, 8 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Information on the subject's plea bargain appended to the article.      Spintendo       07:35, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2018
Change:

To:

Grovertunage (talk) 02:27, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment: I've placed the request in a collapsible box to help with readability. The request is to change the image and add a net worth.  Anon 126   (notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 04:35, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The image was deleted. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 01:42, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2018
In March 2018, Billy MacFarland pleaded guilty of fraud and admitted to using fake documents to attract investors to put more than $26 million (£18.7m) into his company.

Should be:

On March 6, 2018, he pleaded guilty to two counts of wire fraud and is expected to forfeit over US$26,000,000.00, as well as serve 8-10 years in a federal “pound-me-in-the-ass” prison. Teenytinytim (talk) 06:49, 9 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Rivertorch FIREWATER  15:59, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2018
please remove or edit the main photograph of Billy McFarland, because the girl pictured on the left does not want to be on this webpage. Please crop her out or choose a different photo of Billy McFarland. 69.117.247.126 (talk) 22:21, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 01:41, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2018
Please add a wikilink for Ja Rule in the fraud section, it is the first time he is mentioned in the article and is certainly a notable person. Thanks. 2600:1700:1111:5940:91B1:6D72:37FD:75DA (talk) 18:21, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done. Rivertorch FIREWATER  18:33, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2018
Citation needed or remove credit for "years active since 2005 98.114.43.210 (talk) 03:06, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done. The article makes no mention of 2005 or of any present activity. Rivertorch FIREWATER  04:57, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Your suggestion is disingenuous at best. If one searches for say, "Al Capone", the fact that there is a French singer who also uses the name Al Capone II does not mean that Wikipedia users will confuse the French vocalist with the American gangster. Insisting that a convicted and admitted criminal be titled as an entrepreneur on Wikipedia does you no credit. I would suggest his lemma should be "William [Billy] McFarland", in the event you feel that Wikipedia users are so unable to distinguish between the Billy McFarland of the UDA and the Billy McFarland of the Fyre Festival. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Macmclean (talk • contribs) 07:01 CET, 25 January 2019 (UTC)