Talk:Billy Talent/Archive 2

Remove Emo From Genre
Emo should be remove from their genre because their music is definetly NOT Emo. Proof of this is on their myspace where it shows no signs of Emo in sound, genre and fashion - myspace.com/billytalent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.136.120.10 (talk • contribs)


 * That might be original research. I noticed you made a claim earlier that Punk rock should be added to the genre because it states so on their myspace. That could be considered leit, but I don't see where it says that. Could you elaborate where it is? But aside from that specifically, these edit wars are annoying. I let it go for one day and it's already being argued about. From now on, there will be no genre displayed until we have CONSENSUS. Lets talk about this people, and put forth some concrete evidence that could be cited. Your personal opinion about what genre they are has no standing here. Cheers. -- Reaper  X  19:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It states Billy Talent is Punk Rock on their official myspace page. If you look right above there profile picture it indicates their genre in red - Punk / Rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.136.120.10 (talk • contribs)


 * Okay, now I see it. Thanks. -- Reaper  X  04:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Will Someone Please...
Will someone please make it so you have to be a User to edit Billy Talent, I have seen a lot of vandalism on this page. Please make this happen. Thanks X3ni (talk) 21:37, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is enough to warrant any protection. WP:PROTECT says semi-protection is warranted only if the article is "Subject to heavy and persistent vandalism", which is not the case here. It also states "Semi-protection should not be used as a pre-emptive measure against vandalism". If the vandalism becomes more frequent, we may be able to get it semi-protected. But until then, I don't think an admin is going to be swayed by occasional vandalism that occurs every few days. -- Reaper  X  16:16, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

damn it '-.- X3ni (talk) 23:52, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, you got your heavy and persistent vandalism. I'm making a request at WP:RFPP. Way to jinx things eh? -- Reaper  X  03:36, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

sorry O.o I didn't want it to happen..X3ni (talk) 04:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Influences
In the introduction of the article it states that the band says that they have no influences, yet in the "Style" section there are many listed. Is this just a retcon (correct term?) by the band or is there an error in there somewhere.DarkAvenger280 (talk) 12:27, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

"Pezz" name - legal action
The wiki currently says that Billy Talent tried to sue the American Pezz. Though on Pezz's Last.fm page, a poster (who I can only assume is a member of the American Pezz) stated: burythepezz wrote: just wanted to clarify...madomen said that the original pezz (memphis) tried to sue billy talent over the name, actually the canadian pezz tried to sue us and once they figured out we had international releases before them they had to drop the suit. we would never be dicks and try to sue somebody. peace.

Screenshot, Original page.

Jacobbrett (talk) 05:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Stupid Genre Changes
Although wikipedia doesnt care for my opinion, too bad here it is lol.

1) BILLY TALENT IS NOT EMO. "NOR" IS THEIR "FASHION". I love how people are saying well they dress emo so they probably are emo. since when was how you dress a factor on your genre >_> well anyways, emo doesnt fit billy talent anyways.

2) Post Punk? lol yeah lets leave that one out of the genres.

3) Alternative Metal? what? why are people keep reverting some of billy talent's songs to alternative metal. they arent metal at all. especially alternative metal (though one would argue alt metal is a silly of a genre enough)

4) ok so pretty much i'd settle on Alternative Rock, Punk Rock, and Post- Hardcore. I have no idea why people are deleting punk rock, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to miss billy talent's punk in their music. they ARE PUNK ROCK. I dont really agree about Post Hardcore, but i can live with that one.

68.173.143.84 (talk) 00:08, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Jacobbrett (talk) 02:43, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Fancruft?
"Although they are often described as having punk rock roots, they did not "emulate popular bands at the time." The sound is original and unique, something different that they recognized when they first started playing together."

Is this really encyclopedic? Xanthic-Ztk (talk) 22:02, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes 86.160.73.81 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:23, 21 August 2009 (UTC).

Genre
"Please discuss Billy Talent's genre here. There will be no changes on the article until some CONSENSUS is developed here, and it is based on some citeable material. Your personal opinion will not have any grounds here unless it is based on other material, as per Wikipedia's verifibility policy. Thank you. -- Reaper X  19:48, 16 December 2007 (UTC)"

Billy Talent is an Emo/punk genre( not emo but w/e). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.35.34.156 (talk) 19:12, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Billy Talent is an Alternative/Punk genre. Source www.myspace.com/billytalent and both albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.202.172 (talk) 03:03, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Sources? Read above. -- Reaper  X  04:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Obviously it has to have punk in it.► Chris Nelson Holla! 20:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Their Muchmusic bio also says they are punk rock. -- Reaper  X  22:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Billy Talent have nothing to do with the original punk rock! maybe you can call them post punk or pop punk but not punk rock! they are more alternative rock/emo and maybe maaaybe post-hardcore but not punkrock! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.211.84.146 (talk • contribs)


 * Above post made by a sockpuppet of so don't feed the troll.  Seraphim  Whipp 21:28, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, and yet when i add Punk pop or Post-hardcore to the title, someone deltes it. I mean, yeah, its not like the old Punk rock but lets follow at least their official myspace which at least states they are indeed punk, and like most bands of the genre, they are kinda alternative rock/punk pop and not emo! a little bit of Post-hardcore too, but mostly on the first album. SlayerXT (talk) 19:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

i would never call punk rock,But i cannot deny that they do have MAJOR punk influence,i'd call them post punk or just put punk influences or u know wut i really think there just canadian and punk,canadain punk....they kinda remind me of a hardcore green day  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 420bonghits (talk • contribs) 00:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well so far punk rock is the only credible argument that has been presented, not to mention their Much Bio says that's what inspired their sound. Here's more things to pick at:
 * MMVAs for Best Rock Video, A Juno for Rock Album of the Year, ECHO Award for Best Rock/Alternative International.
 * The Access Mag article says they are a "Toronto pistol-rock band", and when they changed their name from Pezz, "The band’s sound evolved too, into more aggressive emotional punk."
 * Obviously, BTII was a change in sound, and Gallant states in an Ottawa Sun interview that they have "scaled the anger and language back a bit...because we’ve mellowed a lot", and "The general theme of this record is trust, the lack thereof or breaking up."
 * Keep deliberating, and remember, base your arguments on verifiable sources. -- Reaper  X  22:29, 6 February 2008 (UTC


 * Exactly, so for now just put them in as Punk Rock until anyone else can find valuable sources for any other genre.


 * I dont think that we should put them to punkrock until we find other genre! maybe more alternative rock! or how do you think about that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.211.122.53 (talk) 09:05, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I just noticed that when i ripped the first album onto my itunes the genre came out as "Alternative and Punk". So now we know that they are also Alternative. Let's put them in as Punk Rock and Alternative Rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.202.172 (talk) 17:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Post-Hardcore or pop-punk - alternative rock perhaps, but their lyrics are more punky, as are riffs therefore I believe first two are only viable genres! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.66.39.234 (talk) 01:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry but the lyrics are not punk! just red flag! but the most lyrics are about love, suicide or something (depressive lyrics)! i think just alternative rock is ok but not punk! maybe post-hardcore and emo but not punk! but alternative is the best! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.211.99.29 (talk) 18:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Guys, you're not basing them on sources, and your not signing your posts. Please do these things, you're not contributing very well. -- Reaper  X  03:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I did provide sources! And the sources say they are Punk Rock and Alternative Rock, jeeees. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.202.172 (talk) 23:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Please ignore any posts made by 79.211. It is indef blocked . Seraphim&hearts;   Whipp 11:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

No dont ignore! i had written something in this page and you can say. hmm maybe he is right or maybe not so dont talk crap about me!-.- you should be ignored! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.211.79.16 (talk) 14:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Amazon has them listed as Post-Hardcore and Emo. I agree with this. In my opinion, Billy Talent has similarities with 90's post-hardcore bands (such as At The Drive In). Their song "one-armed scissor" is very similar to "Try Honesty" and "River Below". Post-Hardcore for sure.--unknownguy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.46.143.10 (talk) 20:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree to this. Their sound is a lot like At The Drive-In, there are more similarities with that band than any other in my opinion (you can easily hear this). And they're one of the most classic post-hardcore bands, as also written in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_The_Drive-In and the album where you notice the similarity clearly; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_of_Command, so obviously Post-Hardcore should be listed as a genre. Their also adressed as a punk-band in almost every review (http://music.ign.com/articles/714/714912p1.html for one), and the loud drum sound, the howling and the attitude from the vocalist and the powerful, ongoing and at the choruses a louder and kind of hard-rock guitar and bass is like punk rock, this was in their first album when it was simple and not that collected rythmically, and in their second album this sound got more rythmical and collected, mainstream and therefore Alternatve Rock (is there really any objections to this genre?). The vocalist also makes them sound like Johnny Rotten in front of Sex Pistols, this comparsion has been used alot, like in http://www.thegate.ca/concerts/billy-talent.php. So Post-Hardcore, Punk Rock and Alternative Rock. The only connection to pop-punk is the vocalists high-pitched voice and the simple, rythmic guitar in some songs, their sound all in all is nothing like pop-punk. They're not emo either imo, they've said this themselves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB4IF_MNMCM). Think of their influences too; Rage Against the Machine, Jane's Addiction, Fugazi, Refused and Punk Rock in general (don't think you need sources on this, there's alot, among others a long interview with a Norwegian radio show, Pyro), they've evolved their admiriation for these bands to something similar to their music, which is loud, screaming punk and typical alternative rock riffs and meloides, all packed in something that sounds like At The Drive-In and Post-Hardcore. --62.101.240.8 (talk) 18:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Very well backed, your extensive analysis makes for excellent arguments. So to double check and summarize, you are arguing for Post-Hardcore, Punk Rock and Alternative Rock as the genres? -- Reaper  X  22:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, oh btw I wrote the text above at work so the IPs don't match --80.212.107.215 (talk) 22:31, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ha, wouldn't have known. Well that could be an incentive to signing up for an account eh? -- Reaper  X  04:20, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

NO no not punk rock! they have nothing to do with calssic punk! more just post-hardcore and alternative rock and maybe emo but not punk! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.211.76.196 (talk) 15:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you base that on any verifiable sources? -- Reaper  X  19:05, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * So except for this guy who we apparently should ignore, don't we have a consensus on punk rock, alternative rock and post-hardcore? Alternative rock and post-hardcore is pretty definite, and most of the biggest music sites and almost every critic calls them a punk-band (just try to google billy talent+punk) obviously becuase their music draws so many similarities to punk and that they say they were influenced by punk themselves. Especially their first album, Billy Talent, has that raw, aggressive, meaningful sound with attitude and messages that differentiates their genre from pop-punk and post-punk. Punk is really the most imortant genre to adress them as because post-hardcore and alternative rock don't cover their style completely, they miss the characteristics mentioned above which really is the hallmark of their music. Whoever who don't agree on this can't have listened to their first album or seen any live performances by them. I say we should trust the critics on this one and don't wait another month before someone else brings up another alternative source that we haven't mentioned, cause I think we have mentioned the most important ones. --80.212.107.215 (talk) 19:30, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say so, because any constructive responses are lacking. Thank you. -- Reaper  X  06:26, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Could I ask another favour? Could you cite those genres? I'd do it but I'm EUI #7 with whisky. -- Reaper  X  06:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Rapcore is the genre that Pezz was in 1993-1995, so should this be put down on the genre list, or not? X3ni (talk) 04:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Got a source? Can u get concensus? -- Reaper  X  04:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Dudebox and Demoluca listen to them. X3ni (talk) 23:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

"Progressive rock" and/or "Hard rock" should be added to the genre. Billy Talent have been quite of this through out most of their career. The songs "This is how it goes", "Living in the shadows", "River Below", "Standing in the rain", "Cut the curtains" and "Prisoners of today" are all, agreeably, progressive/hard rock and that's most of "Billy Talent" album right there. Not to mention "Watoosh!" and "Demoluca", those two have ALOT to add. Just because they were under a different name for the most part of this genre incorporation, doesn't mean this shouldn't be identified. 99.242.214.145 (talk) 21:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * But these are your personal observances, and constitute as original research. You need a source and concensus as to prevent any edit wars over the genre. -- Reaper  X  17:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Billy Talent has a punk or post-hardcore sound, but their lyrics are not punk, aside from "Red Flag", "Worker Bees" and "Turn Your Back". However, I have absolutely no problem with listing them under punk or punk rock. That's just my 2 cents.Three cheers for sweet revenge (talk) 05:34, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Where the hell did pop punk come from? There is no pop-ness in their sound. Alas, my opinion doesn't matter, but who else agrees? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.111.17 (talk) 23:33, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

How Much I Love Billy Talent
I AM GOING TO THE BILLY TALENT III CONCERT, IN THE 100'S AND I OWN ALL THE CD'S. I AM IN LOVE WITH THEM!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Courteneysc (talk • contribs) 17:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Billy Talent IV
There is no need to list a fifth album in the discography if there is no information about it. - ZookPS3 (talk) 00:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

wtf does...
..."The single for "Turn Your Back" (jälllaboration form with the band Anti-Flag)" mean? Google results for that umlauted only return Billy Talent results. 73.36.49.117 (talk) 03:54, 24 November 2015 (UTC)