Talk:Bing Crosby/Archive 1

=Topics of 2003=

Mass Media
I cut the sentence "He played an important part in the development of recording technology."  Perhaps this is so, could we get some explanation of this point? -- Infrogmation 16:54 May 12, 2003 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is absolutely true. Apparently he was almost single-handedly responsible for introducing the tape recorder into America because he realised what a difference it could make for broadcasting, and the technology moved on faster as a result.  I saw a documentary which mentioned his role. Deb 17:26 May 12, 2003 (UTC)

See also: Ampex -- Schmiteye 21:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

=Topics of 2004=

bipolar
Removed the bipolar refence after reading Bing Bipolar. Is there a reference for this assertion?

Database 06:28, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

=Topics of 2005=

Crooner of the 20th century
Bing Crosby holds the distinction of Crooner of the 20th century.

Uh.... says who? Source? Anthony Dean 22:12, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Statistically, Bing is the most successful crooner of the 20th century.

Bing Crosby won a T.V. Guide poll to decide the distiction crooner of the 20th century. But I cant find any references. --Sicamous 03:41, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Elvis is also estimated to have sold well over a billion records. In any event, until Sinatra arrived in 1942 Crosby didn't have any real competition. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.93.21.103 (talk • contribs) 08:11, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Crooning is a specific style, and Crosby epitomizes it. Elvis is no crooner, and it remains to be shown that Azanvour is any more so than Elvis. --Jerzy•t 02:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Sinatra was the greatest crooner/entertainer of the 20th century, and all the newspapers said so on his death in 1998. Bing is only remembered by a few diehard (generally old) fans.

"Sinatra was the greatest crooner/entertainer of the 20th century, and all the newspapers said so on his death in 1998. Bing is only remembered by a few diehard (generally old) fans." - Given the time frame, though, the comparison is difficult to make. In 20-30 years time, it might be true that Sinatra is 'only remembered by a few diehard (generally old) fans' as well - if indeed that is true of Bing Crosby.

Also it should be noted that Sinatra doesn't even approach Bing in terms of record sales, either today or when they were alive.

Bipolar, again
Removed the statement that
 * Many people believe that Crosby's extraordinary abilities were due to his having bipolar disorder.

Such a claim should not be put in an article without indicating what people, specifically, believe this, and indicating where they said so.

A statement like can go in the article whether it's true or not, as long as you can show that it is widely believed. It's not necessary to provide a photocopy of a psychiatrist's diagnosis. What is necessary is to cite a good source. A print biography, with title, author, and page number; a magazine or newspaper article, with date and page number; or a website which can be judged to be authoritative (not someone's personal page or blog). Dpbsmith (talk) 13:52, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

REGARDING MICHAEL BUBLE
This is a fairly petty consideration, but is it really appropriate to include Michael Buble among names like Como, Sinatra and Martin? This is not so much a judgment of how he stacks up in singing ability relative to those names; it just seems strange to include him in particular when he has been a household name for less than five years. The others sang for decades and are almost universally recognized in name and voice, whereas Buble is still fairly inconsequential and has not yet had enough time to demonstrate whether he'll be a fad or a legend. If most people agree that he should be left in there, however, then perhaps include others like Harry Connick, Jr., who have actually been around for awhile. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chipdouglas (talk • contribs) 23:30, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

White Xmas
_ _ I removed the references to others' recordings of this song, which are irrelevant to this article, until it is shown that the obvious approaches to it don't work, & he is accepted as having shown how it should be sung -- or that others' recordings are economically viable bcz they can cash in on nostalgia for him. _ _ The reference to "twenty times" is mathematically illiterate, but it's slightly better to have it in this obviously wrong form that not at all, so i haven't removed it. "Between 1942 and 1962" normally means inclusively, i.e. "'42 thru '62" (21 years); less one exception and plus 1998 is 21 times. Rarely, "between 1942 and 1962" means exclusively, i.e. "'43 thru '61" (19 years); less one exception and plus 1998 is 19 times. Needs fix; some research required. --Jerzy•t 02:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

If Elton John has the biggest selling single worldwide at 37 million sales, how can White Christmas have sold 50 million as reported on this page?

-Good idea, done --Sicamous 03:32, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

=Topics of 2006=

Odd article
It seems to just pretty much say the son who defended him was wrong and committed suicide. Yet the article on that son indicates he had a heart attack. IMDB says the same. What's the truth here? And do we have enough sources to make it so clear he was "an abused child who took his father's side" as it essentially says.--T. Anthony 08:37, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I decided to change that. We really shouldn't do "gossip as fact" here. In fact I think Wikipedia should've learned better on that awhile back. Maybe the heart attack explanation was a way to spare the family from news of another suicide, but I don't see enough evidence of that. I think we should just keep it as heart attack and not imply different without sourcing.--T. Anthony 08:55, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Added to that the article on Gary Crosby isn't so clearcut that he's right about his Dad.--T. Anthony 08:38, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

There is a reason that reliable sources of information will say Phillip Crosby died of natural causes or "unspecified." That is because the coroner would not release the cause of death, which is certainly not standard procedure. Some speculate- although speculation is not in itself proof- that retired LA Coroner Thomas Nogouchi, who liked to hobnob with the stars, may have known the Crosbys and used his influence to keep their secret as a favor or out of pity, or some other party within the California Dept. of Health intervened. Certainly there is no compelling reason for the cover-up.

Phrasing
To me when the current article, following the defense of Bing Crosby quote by his son, says that "Phillip passed away in 2004 reportedly of a heart attack." (emphasis added) seems to have a sinister connotation (especially in context of what was quoted previous to that sentence)... I mean, if someone dies of a heart attack, don't we kinda know? Is there enough doubt that we must list his cause of death as "reported"?


 * Originally it said the cause of death was not reported "possibly to spare the family from hearing of another suicide." This struck me as way more ominous since there seems to be little to indicate that's what happened. However I thought maybe that person knows something I don't so I'd allow for a bit of doubt. I'll remove that though as most things just say he had a heart attack.--T. Anthony 06:15, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

POV
Some fan must have written this article. "A talented vocalist"? "impressive range"? "impeccable phrasing"? "sophisticated vocal techniques"? Are these things common knowledge? Please source them and tone down the fan-gush writing; it does not fit with wikipedia's NPOV policy. Oran  e    (t)   (c)   (e)  23:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC

To answer the question "Are these things common knowledge?," for the most part, yes. However you are right, the opening paragraph is slightly fan based, so I toned it down. --Sicamous 16:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
I don't know how to do it myself, but someone needs to put one of those "This Article Requires Cleanup" banners on the top of it. The grammar is terrible, and though I fixed all I could, I'm not sure how to fix some sentences. A lot of the information is subjective and reads like a newspaper editorial... I'd say it needs a major rehaul.Polyhymnia 20:27, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, its no worse, or better, than any other article

Pedophile
I have read Bing abused the four children of his first marriage sexually as well as physically, this really should be included in the article. — 195.93.21.73 17:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

That's Joan Rivers unfounded opinion that has never even been close to substantiated. --Sicamous 22:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

But nevertheless, many people today seem to believe it. — 195.93.21.73 23:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but nevertheless, it's not true and none of his children have ever made that claim. — 24.14.124.146 14:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

How do you know it's not true? — DaveyJones1968 06:29, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Irrelevant, Wikipedia puts in objective information. There are no sources with evidence to the effects of that claim. It can be included that Joan Rivers said it, but must be clear that there is no evidence to the effect of that claim. However it's more relevant to Joan Rivers than it is to Bing Crosby, so it should probably be included on her page at all, if it's found to be relevant enough to be placed anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.172.252.179 (talk) 20:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Height
Many wikipedia articles mention the height of celebrities, therefore I think it is right to list Bing as 5'7". A quote from Gary Giddins book, A Pocketfull of Dreams: Talking about Mary Carlisle, who worked with him in films, "Carlisle noticed he was self-conscious about his height...and he wore lifts...he once told Alan Ladd how pleased he was that Ladd was shorter...Bing maintained he was 5ft 9, but an office secretary Nancy Briggs, recalled a visit to his home when he wore slippers and she realized he was just about her height - 5ft 7."

Date of birth
On IMDb it says Bing Crosby was born on May 2 and in the article it says May 3. Which one is correct? /Ludde23 20:51, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article is correct, his date of birth can authentisized here http://www.mcckc.edu/~crosby/born.htm. --Sicamous 16:32, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Corrections
I removed the word "acclaimed" from the info about Crosby's death - there is nothing acclaimed about dying at 74. Also removed the "most likely aged 76" bit - newspaper records prove Bing was indeed born in May 1903, making him 74 when he died.

I also removed the "1901" listing on the note about the inscription on his tombstone - the 1903 date has been confirmed and is now listed by the Who's Who and Guinness Book of Records etc. It has even been corrected at findadeath.com.

Sinatra?
This sentence- "Bing Crosby, along with Frank Sinatra, is usually considered to be the most talented singer of his time" bothered me. Why are we mentioning Sinatra here? Even if he is the most talented singer of his time (which I doubt) it doesn't have much to do with Crosby, does it? It just feels out of place. Does anyone object to me taking Sinatra's name out? And maybe rephrase it so it isn't so "OMG, Bing's the best!"-Randomglitter 08:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Sinatra surpassed Crosby long ago.
 * Well, I don't like either of them, but that was hardly my point. -Randomglitter 08:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Well the grammar is incorrect but the statement isn't. In his time Bing Crosby was almost as famous as Jesus. I find it strange that he's not remembered quite as well as Sinatra because few people have ever been as famous. Few people have ever obtained the following that Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra have, aside from the Beatles and the Lord Jesus Christ. So it seems like a fitting statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.172.252.179 (talk) 15:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Bing is almost completely forgotten, whereas Sinatra is still hugely famous. Btw, Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley are far bigger than Bing ever was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.214.77.160 (talk) 13:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Johnny Mathis?
Johnny Mathis sold 150 million worldwide, so why is he part of the 'elite club' of biggest sellers? There have been at least 15 artists who have sold more than him.

I dont know why Johnny Mathis would be one here, he is certainly not one of the greats in as far as record selling. --Sicamous 16:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

NO your mistaken Johnny Mathis is in the ELITE club because its oonfirmed by Guinness book Of records chart historian Paul Gamaccini that MATHIS`has in actual fact sold over 350 Million records world wide, thats the 3rd most successful of the 20th century, if were going to discuss things on here then we must state facts and not go off on one..... Mathis is certainly in the ELITE CLUB.

YouTube links
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 05:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Youtube links have been removed --Sicamous 05:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Tape recorder development
There are a lot of details in the "mass media" section about tape recorder development that have little or nothing to do with Crosby. These parts should go into articles on the tape recorder rather than here. --Blainster 04:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Why? Crosby's influence on the development of the tape recorder may, in the long run, be as important as his influence as an entertainer.


 * Which is more important today: Hedy Lamarr's movies and her sex appeal, or the cellular telephones and WiFi made possible by her invention of spread-spectrum wireless transmission? Dpbsmith (talk) 18:40, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I have included references from the technical literature, specifically two from the Audio Engineering Society that talk about Jack Mullin and his introduction of the German Magnetophon tape recorder to Bing Crosby. Crosby hired Mullin to operate the Magnetophon for use on Crosby's radio show and to commercially develop it. Subsequently, Ampex was the first to make the American version of the magnetic tape recorder. There is no question that Bing Crosby played a major entrepreneurial role in the commercial use of tape recording in American broadcasting as well as in the recording industry. This technology thus superseded the use of 16", 33 1/3 rpm lacquer/aluminum and vinyl electrical transcription audio discs. Jrpowell 03:13, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Family
Maybe a list, or even a page, on the Crosby family and what each did/does - they all seem to have their own article. - Matthew238 07:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Source for "holy trinity?"
What about the remark that
 * He is usually considered to be a member of popular music's "holy trinity" of ultra-icons,[citation needed] alongside Elvis Presley and The Beatles?

Usually? By whom, exactly?

The reference at the end of the sentence merely refers to the Guinness Book of World Records. No page number or other indication of where this is to be found in Guinness, or what is said. What, exactly, does Guinness say about this?

(Is this is perhaps an evasive way of saying Bing Crosby was not ranked #1, but perhaps #3 on some list? Like the stuff you occasionally see in college articles where someone will say a college is "ranked in the top fourteen" in something...)

Does Guinness actually use the phrase "holy trinity?" As a devout Catholic (who almost refused to sing White Christmas because it was secular in content and written by a Jew) I am sure Crosby would have strenuously objected to such a use of the term as blasphemous. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Being a "devout Catholic" didn't stop Crosby from beating his kids, having affairs with Grace Kelly and Inger Stevens, abusing alcohol and drugs etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HarveyCarter (talk • contribs)

abusing drugs? where? when? what kind? (whats etc btw?) care to cite this so we can all read about it? If so why hasn't it been added and cited in the article... --Xiahou 00:23, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I recall seeing the term in iTunes essential thing for Bing, I also believed that it was originally linked there to --Sicamous 21:42, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

=Topics of 2007=

Opinions and Red links should be removed
i feel that there are a lot of personal opinions, such as the holy trinity remark that should be removed if it hasnt already. also, all of the red links in the filmography section should be removed. there is also an inconsistent style of referencing, with a lot of references in one section and none in others. Missy1234 21:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * . The red links in the filmography and discography sections are now redlink free. Missy1234 21:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Gentle reminder - this is a talkpage for improvement - not a chat forum
The preceding edit was deleted for that reason. Ronbo76 22:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Career Statistics
superbu 01:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I edited the information regarding his 23 gold records to provide the source of that information, plus a more accurate explanation of why most of his gold records were not awarded by the RIAA.

No picture
There isn't a picture at the top. I find that silly, there ought to be at least a thousand public domain pictures of Bing Crosby. Does anyone who knows how to put one in in accordance with Wikipedia's image policies, have one? —Unsigned comment by 207.172.252.179 (talk) 15:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

=Topics of 2008=

the most electronically recorded human voice in history
I doubt this means he was more electronic than anyone else. It sounds like the strange claim I've seen repeated on his fan sites that he's the most recorded singer in history, but he's actually far from it, isn't he? Off the top of my head, Asha Bhosle, Lata Mangeshkar, Umm Kulthoum, and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau for example, were much more recorded. I think Asha Bhosle's total was something like 20,000 pop songs and Crosby's was about 1700. Surely, there must be many more singers with more recordings than Crosby (maybe even Sinatra and Elvis), and if we take "most recorded voice" literally, many more voices who aren't singers. Odradek5 (talk) 16:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Mohammed Rafi is most recorded ever about 25,000 songs. Asha bhonsle never recorded 20,000 songs cause she has got 14,000 total. But those indian singers never wrote there songs, never arrange any lyrics, never make music, never do any concerts, never sells at least a million records. Bing Crosby Recorded 1,700 songs, Elvis Presley & Frank sinatra got over 1000 songs. - Justicejayant 16:57, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Lata mangeshkar has recorded 50,000 songs. Bing Crosby has produced most songs, because Lata Mangeshkar, Mohammad Rafi or any other indian singers never produces any song from there own, just record. -Justicejayant 3:27 PM, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * What do you mean "never produces any song from there own, just record"? Crosby didn't generally write his own songs.  In fact, I'm not aware that he wrote any songs at all.  Like the Indian singers, and the others I mentioned, he just recorded them.  That's also what the title "most recorded human voice" suggests we are talking about---the most prolific singer (or speaker), not the most prolific songwriter or record producer.

Odradek5 (talk) 15:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I have heard that Bing Crosby has made his own melody for every song, where no indian singer do that, they just record for movie, and lefts. -Justicejayant 17:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, he wrote one or two songs. But the record here in question is about how much is voice has been electronically recorded. This not only includes his commercial recordings, but alternate unreleased takes, his many thousands of hours of radio shows, movie audio, Television audio, etc. If add up all these into a number. User:Sicamous

...Then what is that number? Is there a reference for it? It sounds like this record is just a guess. I'm sure Asha Bhosle, Umm Kulthoum, etc. didn't hit everything on the first take either. And, if radio counts, maybe someone like Harry Carey holds the record---or any of the countless radio announcers with daily 3+ hour-long shows. Odradek5 (talk) 18:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Good points. I think it's sufficient to state that Crosby sold x number of records and leave it at that. Let the reader gauge his impact by their own measure... Binksternet (talk) 18:16, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

There was enough talk on this point, with enough users questioning the claim and none defending it, that I just deleted it. If somebody wants to un-delete it with a proper citation, I'd welcome a correction, but it seemed to me that the Talk page had come to a conclusion on this one. (Personally, this claim seems both unverifiable and unlikely to be true. There's no way we could get an accurate measure of the amount of recorded time for every well-recorded human voice in history. The other candidates mentioned in the Talk section seem likely to have more hours of recordings. Importantly, consider that the cost of recording the human voice was orders of magnitude more expensive in Crosby's time than it is today. Also, I'd suggest that talk show hosts with decades of daily 2 or 3 hour shows--Rush Limbaugh comes to mind--are almost certain to have far more time on tape. More importantly, this is simply an unverified claim.) Deejaytalk 03:24, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Retrofit Topic-year headers
18-Jan-2008: To help keep entries in date order, I have retro-fit the higher-level headers, as on other talk-pages, for "Topics of 2003" / "Topics of 2004" (etc.) I moved all topics of 2007 together. Most topics still apply, such as fame, birthdate, and Sinatra (and Buble), so I didn't see a need to archive the talk-page yet. (I removed empty topic "==discusing==".) Notice how the topic-year headers focus new entries outside of older years. -Wikid77 (talk) 11:40, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject listings
18-Jan-2008: I have moved the link to WikiProject Golf inside the collapsible multi-wikiprojects, setting WP-Golf as "importance=Low" (however, for WP-Radio, I raised rank from Mid to "importance=High"). -Wikid77 (talk) 12:00, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Bing worked with Al Gore???
do a search for "Al Gore"... what the heck, this cant be right please fix it Easmithv (talk) 05:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment
Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 10:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Nude Weighings and Beatings of Gary Crosby
The citation is already built into the sentence; Gary Crosby's book is cited. User:Professor Von Pie 11:01, 4 April 2008  (UTC)

Cleanup and overlinking
I returned the article to its condition prior to emerson7's cleanup. I think that the "Year in film" wikilinks don't need to be thrown out. Binksternet (talk) 05:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * hello. thanks for the note. however, this is a classic case of overlinking, and i've restored the edits. further, in future, if there's an edit you wish to revert, please be careful to only undo that portion you challenge. thanks --emerson7 05:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Speaking of being careful to only undo that portion you challenge... you reverted the reference I added to the Personal life section. Do you challenge the reference?


 * One validation for "year in film" links is, if a reader goes to, say, 1939 in film and keys in Alt-j to see what links to the page, they may see some further places to go that aren't spelled out on the page.


 * The page WP:OVERLINK seems to say that only redundant links need be removed. You removed each instance of "xxxx in film". I think that's too much of a response.


 * Finally, I reverted your taking away of the small font tags and putting USA in place of United States. I reverted your trimming of small informational comments like (Cameo} for a cameo appearance. I reverted your taking away the Academy Awards succession box. I reverted your removal of the TV appearances. The only thing you put in that I feel I should not have reverted was the curvy open and closed quotes around the nickname Bing. I have no opinion regarding curvy vs. straight quotes in that usage.


 * I am reverting once again, this time with redundant links taken out. I agree that redundant links aren't necessary, and are a fine example of overlinking. I'm also copying this discussion to the article's discussion page, as it may interest others. Binksternet (talk) 06:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Date Of Birth
Bing Crosbys grave clearly states he was born in 1904. Why does it stand 1903 here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.230.193.22 (talk) 14:56, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Was he born may 2nd, or 3rd?


 * I changed to 1904, but someone changed back to 1903. Is there any proof at all for 1903? His grave says 1904. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.211.83.10 (talk • contribs)


 * That's what's so cool about footnotes. You can look up the reference and see what the proof is. In this case, the footnote is the Grudens book from 2002: Bing Crosby-Crooner of the Century. The footnote says that on page 236, Grudens writes "Bing was born on May 3, 1903. He always believed he was born on May 2, 1904." The article already notes that the Crosby family put 1904 on his grave before they learned that he was born in 1903. Binksternet (talk) 18:29, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Edits from Banned User HC and IPs
1) and all of his sockpuppets are EXPRESSLY banned for life.

2) Be on the look out for any edits from these IP addresses:
 * AOL NetRange: 92.8.0.0 - 92.225.255.255
 * AOL NetRange: 172.128.0.0 - 172.209.255.255
 * AOL NetRange: 195.93.0.0 - 195.93.255.255

Birth date - May 2 or May 3
There appeared to be an inconsistancy with his date of birth, it being given as May 3 in the infobox and May 2 in the main body of the text. As the links I checked give it as May 2, I've opted for that date. Hope this is the right one. TheRetroGuy (talk) 19:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Later career as a TV producer?
This reads as if he basically gave up TV in the 50s, but of course the company bearing his name lasted nearly until 1980, involved in several of his 'Road' movies as well as television classics like 'Ben Casey' and 'Hogan's Heroes'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zigwithbag (talk • contribs) 18:57, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Vocal Characteristics error ??
There's something wrong here: "the octave B flat to B flat in Bing's voice at that time [1930s] is, to my ears, one of the loveliest I have heard in forty-five years of listening to baritones, both classical and popular, it dropped conspicuously in later years.

Apart from the missing closing rabbit's ears ("), this phrase doesn't work. It looks possible that "it dropped..." shouldn't be part of the quotation;  if so, maybe something has accidentally been chopped out between the closing double-quotation mark and "it dropped..."

IMHO this is a pretty good article, so I'm hoping the original author can pick this up.

I believe this is a straight quotation, as the author said it. User:Sicamous

"White Christmas"
Should the sales of his original 1942 recording of the song and his later re-recording be combined? I think not since they are distinctly different recordings, but I'm curious as to what other people think here. jtmatbat (talk) 13:00, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If the recordings were very different, such as with today's "re-mixes", I would say no. But due to the fact that both the '42 and the '47 versions are so similar in tone and style, I am saying yes to this.MJEH (talk) 04:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I have added two sentences about White Christmas, "Dating from the pre-tape era... ...tied in with the movie White Christmas"; and have a reference if needed. Unfortunately, I don't quite know HOW to add this information if it is requested or required. But it is a good source, so if this is needed, please feel free to let me know. kane.walker@hotmail.com KaneTW (talk) 14:25, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

FURTHER TO ABOVE: I see that my information has been REMOVED; who did this? And why? And why was it just removed and not DISCUSSED? No-one contacted me to verify, or entered any reasoning on this page to explain. I feel this information is relevant, (explains the need to re-record White Christmas) and fit into the paragraph quite well. Below is the paragraph, someone EDIT it in if you like; I will not bother, for fear of wasting my valued time.


 * "Dating from the pre-tape era, it [White Christmas] was so successful that the stamper dies wore out, and Jack Kapp had to bring Bing back into the studio five years later to re-record the song. The re-recording was tied in with the movie White Christmas." - (VERBATIM) from [1991 MCA Records, Inc. #MCD-18348] 'My Greatest Songs' liner notes by Colin Escott. KaneTW (talk) 09:55, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

last utterings (last words)
Maybe these are really his final words:

"Let's go have a Coca-Cola." http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3754/finalround.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.147.55.212 (talk) 15:21, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Especially since the only current citation is, of all things, pointing to Golf Digest! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.147.55.212 (talk) 15:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

=Topics of 2009=

Influence on Bing
I have been trying to find a quote of Bing's where he said that Harry Mills of the Mills Brothers was an influence on his vocal style. Can anyone help. It is worth including in the article, along with Al Jolson and Louis Armstrong.--Design (talk) 13:04, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

=Topics of 2010=

Neutrality regarding Going My Own Way
One line is given to describing the charges of Gary Crosby's memoir, but then a large paragraph is dedicated to quoting Phillip Crosby refuting it. This hardly seems impartial. --Ericjs (talk) 03:58, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

In the best interest of Wikipedia
I think we need to avoid historically and culturally inaccurate statements like "Crosby projected with a majestic sense of intonation that afforded Tin Pan Alley the musical stature of European classics". While I realize it may be popular among fans of certain musical styles to draw parallels between these styles and classical art, I very much doubt that Bing thought of himself as a modern day Bach and I think it is insulting to both Bing's intelligence and the European classics that a broad and obviously biased comment like that is allowed to stand unedited.

Opinion and unsourced hyperbole
Sections of this article appear to have been written by a Crosby fan with little sense of perspective and delusions of Crosby grandeur. It needs to be cleaned up so that it meets with Wikipedia standards of neutrality. (see also "In the best interest of Wikipedia" above)
 * Excellent idea. You're certainly welcome to make changes that you feel will improve the quality of the article. Doniago (talk) 13:02, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Personal life....
Why is there no real mention that his own son Gary wrote a book that he'd abused him and his brothers? It seems pretty damning that his own son stated in print that his dad was violent and abusive to his children. I read somewhere that Joan Rivers also jumped in and even said he was pedophile. Jeez if his own family members can make accusations like that and for another celebrity to make more claims, there has to be a lot, lot that the public did know about loveable "Uncle Bing"!! It seems this article just wants to talk about he music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.141.224 (talk) 00:35, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

There currently are extensive quotes from both his sons describing differing views of Crosby as a father. Of course, what is significant and notable about Crosby is not his personal life, but his music and film career. Primogen (talk) 02:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

xmas
the opening paragraphs discussing his influence could include his and decca rcords' creation, albeit inadvertent, of the christmas album phenomenon; it didn't exist prior to their activities, and persists to this day. a blow-by-blow description of the historical aspects of what happened is included in the lengthy liner notes of the 2-cd 'the complete decca christmas songbook: bing crosy, the voice of christmas'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.34.145.82 (talk) 19:08, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

I do not think it needs to be in the introduction, but it would deserve a paragraph at the end of section 2.1. 96.21.212.127 (talk) 08:29, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

=Topics of 2011=

RPM vs BPM
(Referencing the end of the first paragraph of Popular Success.) I know this is a TINY correction to be made, and I'm no music expert, but isn't it 78 BPM (beats per minute) as opposed to RPM? BPM is usually the measurement for how fast a song is. RPM would be specific to the speed at which the record (or whatever the song is recorded on) spins, not necessarily the speed at which the song plays. As I said I'm no expert, so even though 78 RPM seems to me a bit fast for a record player to spin at, I could easily be wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.189.141.245 (talk) 18:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * RPM is correct. Doniago (talk) 20:04, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Recording-Philco Radio Time
Billboard October 26, 1946 There's an extensive section in this issue re: Crosby's recording his Philco radio show that probably would be good for reference. We hope (talk) 17:25, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

minor edit - Bing and baseball
When the article mentions Crosby being "too nervous to watch the deciding Game 7 of that year's World Series", it doesn't specify what year, though the link directs to the 1960 Series article. I'm simply going to clarifiy the text. Elsquared (talk) 01:25, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

=Topics of 2012=

Golf course in Spain?
Shortly after 6 pm on October 14, Crosby collapsed and died of a massive heart attack on the green after a round of 18 holes of golf near Madrid where he and his Spanish golfing partner had just defeated their opponents. Where was this? I mean, does anyone know the name of the course? --76.115.67.114 (talk) 05:36, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

ElMoraleja We hope (talk) 22:32, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Way too much weight on recording technology in lead
A hugely disproportionate amount of the lead--almost half--is invested in Crosby's involvement in recording technology. Can anyone make an argument that this information should be grossly shortened here and the bulk moved to the appropriate section? ThtrWrtr (talk) 05:18, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Whether or not there is too much emphasis on Crosby's relation to recording technology in the lead is for others to determine. However, the main issue is that the information presented relative to Crosby's role is in error. The true account can be found is this article, Jack_Mullin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.111.241.135 (talk) 16:55, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Role of Mildred Bailey in early career
I believe this article incorrectly states how Bing Crosby and Al Rinker connected with Paul Whiteman. The article now says Mildred Bailey introduced Bing to Paul Whiteman. My understanding is that it was the other way around: Bing introduced Mildred Bailey to Whiteman and helped her get her job with Whiteman's orchestra. This is how it's presented in Wikipedia's article about Mildred Bailey and also is in line with Richard Sudhalter's recounting in his bio of Bix Beiderbecke, "Bix: Man and Legend." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.223.5 (talk) 18:47, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:22, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Final performances/recordings
According to the article for the Seasons album, the CD issue of the album includes a set of songs recorded at BBC's Maida Vale studio only two or three days before his death, post-dating the Brighton Centre performance cited here as his final performance. 68.146.70.124 (talk) 04:53, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * His last concert was at the Brighton Centre. The following day he sang eight songs on the BBC radio program—his final performance. I edited the section for clarification. Bede735 (talk) 12:19, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Vandalism
Why have the names of the television shows and movies Bing was involved with been deleted? Rglovejoy (talk) 01:47, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

his birth year is wrong.
His grave stone states he was born 1904 but below his picture you stated his birth year 1903, which is it? prefix:Talk:Bing Crosby/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8807:A6C0:8380:D940:330B:D42E:134F (talk) 05:08, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Lists a sister Catherine as born in 1904 - If true, then not possible for Bing born in May that year. http://bingcrosby.com/bing-bio gives his birth year as 1903 Thisdaytrivia (talk) 21:41, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

His ww2 draft card says his birth date is 2-may-1904. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Telemark63 (talk • contribs)

Discussion at Talk:Bing
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Bing. &#60;&#60;&#60; SOME GADGET GEEK &#62;&#62;&#62; (talk) 11:00, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

He isn't the best selling recording artist
Elvis Presley has sold more records than Crosby. (81.135.14.12 (talk) 22:57, 23 May 2017 (UTC))
 * Do you have a reliable source? DonIago (talk) 01:43, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The Beatles have outsold everyone. (2A00:23C4:6384:600:30E6:B0B6:F10E:9F52 (talk) 13:22, 20 August 2017 (UTC))
 * Perhaps the text is intended to indicate that he's the best selling solo recording artist? Either way, a RS would be good for verification. DonIago (talk) 14:07, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Crosby's actual figures are difficult to verify. (2A00:23C4:6384:FE00:25B6:50D5:63DF:9646 (talk) 16:02, 9 September 2017 (UTC))
 * The logical response, then, is simply not to state information that can't be verified. DonIago (talk) 19:09, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Abusive or Not?
"However, the Bing Crosby website asserts that late in his life, Gary claimed that he made up large portions of the book in an attempt to blame his irresponsible life decisions on his father." I would not consider bingcrosby.com to be a reliable source on this subject. If no primary sources can be found documenting that Gary recanted his allegations, I would guess the website made it up. Like of like how that Lady Hope nutbar claimed that Darwin converted on his deathbed. --ShorinBJ (talk) 12:25, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, no one's said anything. I'm nuking it. --ShorinBJ (talk) 15:07, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Website didn't make it up, story was in 27th February 1995 Hollywood Reporter issue sourced indirectly per . Can't find original anywhere –Utzdman55 (talk) 17:56, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Religion
The article states that his second wife converted to Catholicism, but nothing about Crosby’s religion.Sylvain1972 (talk) 18:10, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Wild story about Crosby and CIA porn film
User:Infocidal has added material to this page about a supposed porno film produced by Crosby and his brother, under CIA sponsorship, for the purpose of attempting to discredit Sukarno, the then-dictator of Indonesia. Infocidal gives 3 citations to Google books. Two of these citations link to the same book. As best I can tell, this story traces back to one individual, a fellow named Maheu. Strange things happen in this world, but I have a difficult time finding this material to be credible, at least with respect to Bing Crosby's involvement, and am not satisfied that the source(s) are reliable. Should this material be removed? -- WikiPedant (talk) 03:22, 15 January 2018 (UTC)


 * My bad on the accidental double citation, I've removed the second and added a link to the Sydney Morning Herald referencing a story in a BBC Documentary which includes Maheu's claims. I understand the skepticism, but it seems like several news sources and publishers vetted the claims somewhat. Maybe qualifying the single source would be good, but it seems well-documented enough to be mentioned on this page. --Infocidal (talk) 07:13, 15 January 2018 (UTC)


 * A bit more documentation on Maheu's credibility; the New York Times cites an audit from the GAO which specifically mentions Maheu's production of a pornographic film about Sukarno using an actor and involving Howard Hughes. It doesn't mention Crosby but I think there should be some good reasons to doubt these multiply-sourced claims and remove the text. "The secret intelligence budgets given to Congress, the G.A.O. said, did not contain a number of important items, including 20 percent of the National Security Agency's annual budget, the budgets of the Pentagon's Advanced Projects Research Administration and the National Security Council, and the costs of domestic counter‐intelligence functions performed by the F.B.I. The expenditures of those funds, the report said, were largely unchecked by Congress and even by the Office of Management and Budget, which asisigned only six full‐time auditors to the foreign intelligence agencies. It said this spending was also inadequately monitored by C.I.A. accountants, who told the committee that in many cases they had been forced to “rely solely on the integrity” of many agency officials. One of the categories of inappropriate expenditures cited by the agency was Mr. Maheu's procurement of women, which a committee source said occurred around 1957. This was some years after he became consultant to Mr. Hughes and about the same time that he produced for the agency a pornographic film, “Happy Days,” which starred an actor who resembled Indonesian President Sukarno. The report did not elaborate on the production of the film, or whether it was ever used to embarrass Mr. Sukarno, as the agency had intended. Neither Mr. Maheu nor Mr. Sukarno were named in the report, from which all identities have been excised. But their names, like that of King Hussein, were provided by sources familiar with the House panel's investigation." http://www.nytimes.com/1976/01/26/archives/new-jersey-pages-secrecy-is-cited-a-years-investigation-uncovered.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Infocidal (talk • contribs) 07:20, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The sources seem credible to me on the question of whether the film was actually produced. I removed a couple of the sources that don't mention Crosby, as we had way too many sources in there. None of the sources I checked said that the Crosbys produced the film, and one says that Maheu produced it, so I've changed the wording slightly. James Srodes connects the film to Crosby, and that's good enough for me. There is some question as to whether Crosby's role in this adventure is important enough to include in the article, but I think the two sentences we have now are fine. Kendall-K1 (talk) 01:25, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I too am inclined to believe that some sort of lame porno film was produced, that this character Maheu was involved, and that it was one of any number of kooky projects undertaken by the CIA. But Bing Crosby's (to say nothing of Howard Hughes') purported "involvement" seems ill-defined at best. Somewhere on the web I even saw a suggestion that der Bingle was involved only in the sense that one of his songs was appropriated as the soundtrack for this mighty opus. Srodes notwithstanding, it wouldn't choke me up if this material was consigned to the "men who stare at goats" department and deleted for the sloppy, unencyclopedic malarkey that it is. -- WikiPedant (talk) 07:38, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Record sales
The actual figures for Crosby's record sales cannot be verified, so the lede should not state as fact that he was the best-selling recording artist. (CyruLnd (talk) 00:37, 17 January 2018 (UTC))


 * I have adjusted the article to reflect what the cited sources say. NYT says "in all, a billion of his records were sold worldwide" but attributes this to some comedian from the Disney channel, so I wouldn't give it much weight. PBS says "Bing Crosby has sold close to one billion records, tapes, compact discs and digital downloads around the world. He may be the biggest selling recording artist of all time." The third source, bingcrosby.com, I would not consider reliable for this information. Kendall-K1 (talk) 01:17, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I imagine that some people pronounce his name /ˈkrɑːzbi/ – turning the first vowel into an "a" sound – but is that how he pronounced it? Is there a source for this? I've heard the first vowel only as an "o" sound. EddieHugh (talk) 21:07, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Last words
His actual last words were, "Let's go get a coke." (ManyMoonsoons (talk) 02:38, 11 October 2018 (UTC))
 * Citation needed. DonIago (talk) 13:56, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Redundancy in 'Early Life' section
The Early Life section contains three consecutibe sentences explaining the same thing: "His father was of English descent; an ancestor, Simon Crosby, emigrated to America in the 17th century." "The first Crosby in America was the English immigrant Simon Crosby, who was a Puritan from Cambridgeshire, England." "Through an entirely paternal line Bing Crosby is descended from Simon Crosby, who emigrated from England to New England in the 1630s during the Puritan migration to New England." I'm unsure how to condense this information into a less repetetive form, so if someone else could handle that, that'd be great. SuneEnough (talk) 14:02, 6 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi SuneEnough, I've fixed this. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:07, 6 April 2019 (UTC)


 * A lot of unnecessary space in the "early life" sections of biographical articles is often given to statements about ancestry when it's got little to do with the person's upbringing. Crosby did not identify with any of his settler roots. He was brought up in his mother's Irish Catholic tradition and identified as such. While his other ancestries are interesting, I think that they could be potentially misleading to anyone looking to get a "feel" for who Bing Crosby was.Jonathan f1 (talk) 00:02, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Sales

 * His sales figures according to some books:


 * "The Hollywood Chamber of Commerce presents Bing with a platinum record of White Christmas which bears a plaque indicating that he has sold more than 200 million records." — Bing Crosby: Day by Day pag. 525 by Malcolm MacFarlane (2002)''
 * "honored as “First Citizen of the Record Industry,” based on having sold 200 million discs." — 18 Holes with Bing: Golf, Life, and Lessons from Dad by Nathaniel Crosby (his son) / John Strege
 * "The inscription noted that he had sold more than 200 million records and led the whole recording industry into" — The Rise of the Crooners pag.121 by Michael Pitts, Frank Hoffmann, Dick Carty, Jim Bedoian (2001)
 * 200 million records — Guinness Book of World Records (1989) "Most Successful Solo Recording Artists" pag. 154
 * "In all, Mr. Crosby sold more than 300 million records" — The New York Times Book of the Dead: Obituaries of Extraordinary People by William McDonald (2016)
 * "His record sales (singles and albums) are estimated to be over 300 million." — The Million Sellers by Omnibus Press (2012)
 * "isn't Elvis or the Beatles — it's Bing Crosby, whose total worldwide album sales exceed 300 million as of press time." — SPIN April 1992, Vol 8. N.1
 * "When it comes to records, Bing Crosby broke most of them. Selling an incredible 250 million records, with 'White Christmas” alone selling 30 million, he may not have been one of the greats of the musical stage" — About Musicals pag. 217 by Susan Sutherland (1998)
 * "He recorded over 2,500 titles and sold more than 250 million records, including over twenty individual million-sellers" — The Da Capo Companion to 20th-century Popular Music pag. 216 by Phil Hardy (1995)
 * "Bing Crosby came second with 400 million plus" — You Must Remember This--': Popular Songwriters 1900-1980 pag. 9 by Mark White (1985)
 * "Crosby recorded approxi— mately 2,500 titles, which sold more than 400 million copies." — Encyclopedia of Music in the 20th Century pag. 152 by Lol Henderson, Lee Stacey (2014)
 * "Crosby recorded approximately 2,500 titles, which sold more than 400 million copies." — Music in the 20th Century (3 Vol Set) pag. 152 by Dave DiMartino (2016)
 * "This man who had sold an unbelievable 400 million records was just learning to have a rapport with the people who bought those records" — Girl Singer: A Memoir of the Girl Next Door pag. 256 by Rosemary Clooney, Joan Barthel (2002)
 * "He still holds the record for the greatest selling recording artist of all time, with sales nearing 500 million." — Children of Hollywood pag. 157 by Michelle Vogel (2005)
 * "In his lifetime Crosby made over seventy feature films and sold over 500 million albums on which were recorded more than 1,600 different songs" — American National Biography pag. 775 by John A. Garraty (1999)
 * "During a 50-year career, Crosby appeared in nearly 80 films, sold 500 million records" — Early Paramount Studios pag. 100 by E.J. Stephens, ‎Michael Christaldi, Marc Wanamaker (2013)

--Apoxyomenus (talk) 04:35, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

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 * Bing Crosby-Marjorie Reynolds in Holiday Inn trailer.jpg