Talk:BioShock/Archive 4

Playstation 3 version
I believe we need to clarify some items concerning the existence of a Playstation 3 version. The article mentions that Electronic Gaming Monthly reported that a PS3 version was in the works. While that is true, it was in the "Rumor Mill" section, which as history as demonstrated is not always accurate. Additionally, I believe we should clarify under the platforms in the information box that a citation is needed either from 2K or several reputable websites/magazines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.66.91.188 (talk) 17:45, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The PS3 version of BioShock has been confirmed for a fall 2008 release. The article can be found here. The title is being released with added content as well. --Rhymingisfun (talk) 03:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hyperlink for 'Big Sister Is Watching You' reference
This wiki page refers to Whittaker Chamber's article 'Big Sister Is Watching You' and I believe a hyperlink should be added to article. This article was originally published in the National Review, and here is the url for the article in their archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200501050715.asp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iwiwcontributor (talk • contribs) 04:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

The description of the story is loaded with spoilers. Either remove the spoilers or mark the areas with spoilers. Better yet, find a way to hide/reveal the spoilers, the way some forums do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.193.84.162 (talk) 16:06, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The spoiler guideline says we don't need to warn about/remove spoilers. This isn't a forum, it's an article which goes into detail about the game, including the plot, so it should be expected that details of the plot are to be revealed. Bill (talk 16:13, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler
"Ryan then orders Jack to kill him, so as to die on his own terms". This doesn't make sense, needs to be re-written. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DrTheKay (talk • contribs) 07:00, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Its self explantory. (a commer is like a weak full stop) he wants to die how he says not any other way. if he says "kill me" then its his way —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.31.189.93 (talk) 13:20, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Rewrite it. 216.8.128.109 (talk) 22:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Not only is the sentence not very well written, that sentence is also inaccurate.  Ryan wanted to believe his son was not a slave, and capable of making decisions.  That is why he kept saying "a man" during the death scene.  He was hoping his son was a man, not a slave to Fontaine. This is backed up by the fact that as game play continues you, Jack, need to remove Fontaine's control over you by obtaining to two solutions to break the mind control.  Ryan did not want to die on his own terms, he wanted his son to be a man, not a slave.

24.241.228.129 (talk) 22:37, 4 June 2008 (UTC)Quest15


 * I guess I am wrong. The current article is also wrong though.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=539 Ken Levine states in that interview that Ryan has Jack kill him to show Jack that he is just a slave. Ryan dies because he tells Jack to kill him, and for no other reason. That is a significant difference then his own terms. Ryan shows Jack that he has no will of his own. Ryan makes Jack kill him, to teach him a lesson. Quest15 (talk) 23:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)Quest15

Possible Mac Version
Article on Destructoid. If true, it would see a release before Q3 2009. JaffaCakeLover (talk) 16:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

voice actors
If someone knew who voiced Atlas, Bridgett Tennebaum and Jack could you please add it in to the article. That would help alot. For people who don't know who voices Andrew Ryan, its Armin Shimermin. --69.124.58.112 (talk) 17:18, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I know the voice of Atlas. His name is Karl Hanover and is an actor in New York now. He is Irish, lived in the SF Bay Area for many years (I did several theatre shows with him), and he was formally trained at the National Theatre Conservatory in Denver, CO. In 2007, he was Iago in Philadelphia Shakespeare Festival's production of Othello (here he is in the National Theatre Conservatory's production of Othello in 2006 - yes, 2 Iago's in 2 years - during a fight scene). He was in Bill Pullman's first play called Expedition 6. He has also appeared in WallStrip as a special correspondent (WallStrip Episode on YouTube - note he won't sound quite the same in this clip as in the game since he's hamming it up in this clip)... I don't know of other readily available video evidence. I don't think he has a Web site. Since the article is semi-protected, I can't seem to add it, but I just wanted to explain who he is here because I'm not exactly sure how to validate it's him in the game. He mentions it in an NTC alumni update if you scroll way down. The unions involved had a very particular issue with credits in the game. He'll probably kill me just for writing this... Greggerca (talk) 03:21, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Wasn't Jack voiced by Miguel Ferrer? I think I saw that in a "the making of" video. Hewinsj (talk) 16:14, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. The voice acting in the game is brilliant, and I was hoping that the cast would be listed on this page. The actors are credited in the game (listed towards the end of the credits) but it's just a list of names, it doesn't tell you who voiced each character. If someone has info, then please add it. - Jatoo (talk) 07:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

download
the new plasmids and tonics unblance the game by a long shot, i think this should be noted.


 * Sign please, and that's something for a specialty wiki, unless there's notable and widespread complaints. 68.41.145.24 (talk) 23:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Orchestral Score
The Orchestral score is mentioned as being made available but the reference link [129] has become inaccurate it should be either: http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/updates.html or http://downloads.2kgames.com/bioshock/BioShock_Score.zip update it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.69.83.60 (talk) 14:42, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Bioshock critical analyses
Here are some articles for a critical analysis of the game, written by myself and others who love bringing a deep discussion to a deep game:

Bioshock Explained: The Horror of Randianism http://my.opera.com/noisewar/blog/2007/09/01/bioshock-explained Suffer the Little Children http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2007/08/column_the_aberrant_gamer_suff.php Bioshock - A Lesson About Societal Norms Gone Awry http://www.mytakeongames.com/?p=7 What Does Bioshock Have In Common With The Incredibles? http://nomorequo.blogspot.com/2007/12/what-does-bioshock-have-in-common-with.html Ludonarrative Dissonance in Bioshock http://clicknothing.typepad.com/click_nothing/2007/10/ludonarrative-d.html

Noisewar (talk) 20:09, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Lots of blogs, nothing that meets wikipedia standards.Milskidasith (talk) 07:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Big Daddy (Bioshock) and a ref not yet used
I have redirected the PROD-nominated article Big Daddy (Bioshock) to this article. The original article contained two references with incidental mentions of Big Daddy; one of these references is already included here. The second reference was to http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813214p1.html, which is not included yet in this article. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 15:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the notability call is close on this one, but your redirect seems like a good idea for now. When I get a chance, I'll dig up some references I've seen and see if I can put a decent stub together. — Satori Son 13:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Game about a utopia, or a dystopia?
I'm a little confused ... a reference to this game over on the System Shock 2 article mentions that BioShock is about a utopia. I read articles on Utopia and Dystopia, and afterwards felt that BioShock was about a dystopian society. I then searched on the net for a source to back-up this idea, and thought that I had found one, so I edited that article to replace the unsourced comment of BioShock being a utopian society gone awry, with my edit and source. Somebody disagreed, and reverted it back to saying that it is about a utopia. Even over here, on the main BioShock article, it is described, more than once, as being a dystopia (even by the designers). —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheWizardOfAhz (talk • contribs) 13:22, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

seems like your in the right. anybody who knowas anything about this game wouldent say "utopia" when talking about it.(124.183.3.228 (talk) 13:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC))
 * The entire premise of Rapture is that it was designed as an underwater utopia. The fact that it didn't work out doesn't make it a dystopia, it makes it a failed utopia-- a subtle but important distinction. When the player arrives in Rapture, it's a war zone, which makes it no more a dystopia than any other war zone. Ken Levine himself has said--
 * "So I came up with this notion of this Utopia they didn’t want anyone to find. From that, I wondered what sort of Utopia it would be, and came up with the character Andrew Ryan and his sort of philosophical background: pseudo-objectivism and extremely capitalistic view on the world."
 * "They built this utopia but there are cracks in it and there is no better way to show it than the water coming in."
 * "When I started talking internally about the game world, it was hard for people to understand exactly what I meant by 'utopia.' ... But the other thing people thought is, 'Oh it's a utopia, everybody's happy together,' but in reality, why do you have plumbers?"
 * "Well, the game does take place in a failed semi-objectivist Utopia! However, unlike Rand, we tried to take the concept of Utopia and examine it as if it were built not by gods dressed like men, but by flesh and blood people with real flaws. And unlike Orwell's 1984, we wanted to show a Utopia whose intentions were good, that really had a chance to work if people could just not be so… human."
 * "We wanted to come up with a cool utopia, not model an AK-47."
 * Clayhalliwell (talk) 16:25, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, ha! That makes much more sense to me. Thank you! TheWizardOfAhz (talk) 21:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

actually in the standard understanding i believe this should be classed as an anti-utopia, dystopia is set up as such - anti-utopia is et up as a utopia but where it becomes the opposite. so technically speaking this should be an objectivist-anti-utopia :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.84.77.30 (talk) 07:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler warning needed
I think a Spoiler warning is needed for the story section because of the would you kindly twist which can ruin the gameplay if you read it first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.62.14 (talk) 08:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC) we dont use them anymore —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.28.195 (talk) 07:33, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

If you read a section called "Story" you should expect spoilers, thats why its about the story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.97.131 (talk) 02:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Ending, Tone
In order to lighten the tone on which the Story section ends, would someone kindly put the description of the good ending AFTER the descriptions of the bad and sad endings? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.253.161 (talk) 01:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * "would someone kindly"? Very funny.  -Evan 2/28/2008
 * the game isnt very happy. but if you want to do it go ahead, it doesnt really matter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.28.195 (talk) 05:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Plasmids
Shouldn't you say something about the plasmids that are usable and a little bit about guns and stuff TranscendantX (talk) 01:18, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It already summarizes plasmids; excess trivial information isn't good. · AndonicO  Hail!  01:22, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * A weapons list isn't trivial in an FPS.75.121.36.237 (talk) 15:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099
 * Yes it is. This is about the game, not the gameplay. 68.41.145.24 (talk) 23:46, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I added a small blurb stating that the use of plasmids are required to complete the game. this info is usefull for players who might not want to play\purchase the game should they be required to use them.      MCDONIS  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcdonis (talk • contribs) 15:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

DX10 Benefits
Hi,

You guys keep reverting my edits. I don't know why, there are several sources

- http://au.gamespot.com/features/6177688/p-3.html - http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/bioshock_directx10_performance/page4.asp - http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2007/08/30/bioshock_gameplay_graphics_and_performance/5

each of which shows a clear and described difference between DX9 and DX10. Yes, there are sites which say otherwise, but as both GameSpot and TweakGuides state, this is due to the glitch of the in-game controller not working. I am not very good at referencing, but these sources more than confirm there is a difference in particles/water/shadows, and that the in-game option is broken. That's a pretty notable thing and I need your help to include it, rather than simply reverting it back for no reason.

I'll wait a few days for your response then go ahead and have a go at editing it again myself. If there is some problem with my information, please at least respond here if you revert it back - that's basic courtesy.

Cheers, Greglo (talk) 06:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


 * There were several problems with how you were editing it in. We have no idea if GS or the TweakGuide sites did it wrong or not, and we cannot go on WP accusing them of not testing it properly.  Additionally, we don't need how to say to switch between one mode and another.  That said, I have added a couple of the above to note that there are water and particle effect differences, but outside of these, as noted by the first guide, these are subtle differences and do not interfere with the game.  --M ASEM  12:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


 * OK thanks mate. I did think it was a bit odd to include the info about the switch. Obviously I would like it in, but you did a good job; just what I wanted to say - a small, notable difference, but a subtle one. Cheers, Greglo (talk) 09:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

FMOD
FMOD should be added to the engine section. I'd do it but anonymous users can't edit and I don't feel like creating an account just to add it. -68.127.103.81 (talk) 10:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Philosophy
Philosophy is mentioned in the intro paragraph, but almost nothing is mentioned in the article. Things like the "No gods or kings here, only men." banner in the lighthouse and "A man creates. A parasite asks `Where is my share?`" really clear it up for someone who has never played the game and doesn't know anything about Ayn Rand or Objectivism.75.121.36.237 (talk) 15:53, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099
 * I believe that is why a user above linked to several critical anaylses, so that someone would have a source to add this. xenocidic (talk) 16:18, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I just remembered some thing:the fifth of Novemeber. Rapture was completed on Nov. 5,1946 is this relavent?75.121.36.237 (talk) 16:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099

Setting or story?
The setting section reads more like a Prolauge than telling about Rapture itself. I propose moving this information to the story section.75.121.36.237 (talk) 17:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099
 * True, it does work like a prologue, but it tells the events leading up to the player's arrival at Rapture. So, it does give the setting of how Rapture is "now" without giving away too much. ~ QuasiAbstract (talk/contrib) 09:50, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Sadly, wikipedia is not designed for restraining information. Please read WP:Spoiler and justify your statements. 71.131.199.25 (talk) 02:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Bioshock Demo installs SecuROM
It seems that even the official PC Demo installs SecuROM, although it is nor required to activate or play the game (WinFuture.de (german)). Here is a guide to removing it: How I removed Securom from registry (obtained from Demo, of all things!) 62.216.218.206 (talk) 09:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

"Alerts from virus scanners and malware detectors, which can be triggered by SecuROM software, led to some debate about whether a rootkit was being installed; this was denied by 2K Games. However, an uninstallation of BioShock does not remove the files installed by SecuROM or the registry keys used, and some of these files are impossible to delete in a conventional way."

There should not be a "however", which implies that SECUROM is a rootkit. A rootkit being defined as "one or more programs or processes that conceal themselves from the host operating system, ostensibly at a high enough level that it can access everything on the system." "The access level is the distinction, here: SecuROM runs at ring level 3. SecuROM, in its current incarnation, is a copy protection scheme that installs a service that runs at Ring 3, the applications layer. It has no access to lower-level rings, like drivers or kernel-level resources. Rootkits, by definition and by nature, run at an equivalent level of 0. They are meant to be used to install more applications which the (h|cr)acker will use to further pwninate your box." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.229.7.175 (talk) 11:59, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Alternative history?
Really? It was my understanding that alternative history involved fiction where the world is drastically altered from the present day. Bioshock presents a hidden city set within our world having continued as it had all along. Like Stephen King. The Stand, wherein most of the world is killed by superflu, is an alternate history since it didn't happen. Misery, about a writer trapped with a crazy woman, while fictional, is entirely plausible within our own world. Not in an alternate history. Otherwise, every single bit of fiction has no bearing on our world because it's all alternate.71.177.146.204 (talk) 23:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * From Wikipedia's article Alternate History: "Alternate history or alternative history[1] is a subgenre of speculative fiction (or some would say science fiction) and historical fiction that is set in a world in which history has diverged from history as it is generally known." All this says is diverged.  Not drastically.  So, under THIS description, Bioshock would be in an alternate history (unless someone finds out that a play crashed in the middle of the Atlantic near a mysterious lighthouse, then it might not be so alternate).  So, while the background of Bioshock is not much different than history as we know it, it still would be considered an alternate history. ~ QuasiAbstract (talk/contrib) 07:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, under that description EVERY bit of fiction is set in an alternate history.71.177.146.204 (talk) 06:29, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Bioshock is not alternative history at all. The events in the game (with possibly the exception of the 'bad' ending) do not have any bearing or relation to the history of the time period it is set in. If you can call Bioshock alternative history then you might as well call Sherlock Holmes or any work set in a certain time period "alternative history". History has not diverged at all in Bioshock. If, say, Jack returned to the surface and gave plasmid technology to the USSR and upset the balance in the Cold War then you could say it is alternative history. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 16:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * More from Alternative history: While to some extent all fiction can be described as "alternate history," the subgenre proper comprises fiction in which a change or point of divergence occurs in the past that causes human society to develop in a way that is distinct from our own.
 * I think the question isn't, can we deduce from our knowledge of the game and the definition on that page, whether BioShock is or is not alternative history, but, which reliable sources describe BioShock as alternative history? S HEFFIELD S TEEL TALK 17:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The plot of Boshock doesn't fit that desciption at all, Shef. On the rest, it's hard to gage. Most of the places that do either use the Wikipedia description which speaks to lazy copy writers more than critically thinking about the game itself.  So either they're copying wikipedia, or wikipedia is verboten copying someone else without crediting them.  And none of this speaks to the fact that if fifty websites say "The Golden Gate Bridge is a distinctive hue of green," it still doesn't make it so and would be poor to use as "reliable sources."71.177.146.204 (talk) 06:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally I do not think BioShock qualifies as alternative history; that's why I posted the excerpt above. But my opinion is worthless; what matters is what the sources say. Incidentally, I think you meant to say verbatim which is Latin for "word-by-word", rather than verboten, which is German for "forbidden". Sorry if this sounds patronising; it's meant to be helpful!  S HEFFIELD S TEEL TALK 19:50, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * As said, the sources all use an almost identical text which refers pretty much to nothing. Sound and fury and all that.71.177.146.204 (talk) 05:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

References bug
Maybe it's just on my machine (I'm running Firefox 2 on Windows XP), but the references section on my computer is all "jumbled-looking" (for lack of a better term) after reference #73. Anyone else see it? If so, anyone know how to fix it? :) RobertM525 (talk) 06:38, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Problem fixed. --Silver Edge (talk) 06:55, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Semi-Protected
Anyone know why this article is semi-protected? I would like to make a couple minor edits (For instance, I think the word "both" in the sentence "Three endings are possible depending on how the player interacted with the Little Sisters, both narrated by Dr. Tennenbaum" is grammatically incorrect) but I didn't have an account until I created one just now, and it's not autoconfirmed. Rfschmid (talk) 19:41, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You'll be able to edit the page in a few days. And you're right about the "both:" it should be "all." I'll leave it for you to fix once you can edit. :) · AndonicO  Engage. 19:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Alternative Endings
I think the paragraph about the different possible endings (currently the last paragraph in the "story" section) needs a little work. It claims there are three possible endings: - "If the player only rescued the Little Sisters" - "If the player harvested (and therefore killed) more than two of the Little Sisters" - "If the player harvested all of the Little Sisters" This leaves the reader (me) confused about what happens if the player harvests one or two Little Sisters. If I could edit the page (see my other comment above) I would try to find another source that explains the different endings and fix this up. Could someone either allow me to edit the page or take a look and fix this up themselves? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rfschmid (talk • contribs) 19:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

-There are only two endings. One for if you harvest 0 or 1 little sisters, one for if you harvest 2 or more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.248.137.205 (talk) 18:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

-Actually it's 2 and 1/2 endings; the second ending mentioned above gives you the "all Little Sisters harvested" ending; however, Tenenbaum speaks to you in a softer voice then the harsh tone from the original version. 68.55.125.227 (talk) 01:52, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Reviews section
" ...making it the third highest rated PC game released to date, behind Half-Life 2 and The Orange Box and the eleventh highest ranked PC game of all time." I'm having a hard time understanding what this means? Can someone fix it? how can it be the third highest rated and the eleventh hightest rated?. 130.76.32.23 (talk) 09:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --Silver Edge (talk) 15:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

"Cult" Deprogrammer
There are people who deprogram cult members, but they don't attempt to "cure" lesbians because there's no such thing as a lesbian "cult". Quite the opposite. Today, religious fringe groups (i.e. cults) who typically call themselves "ex-gay" groups primarily are the ones claiming to be able to cure homosexuality through pseudo-therapy and prayer. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-gay. I know the guy did say this in his interview, but he doesn't know what he's talking about if he thinks this is what cult deprogrammers do.VatoFirme (talk) 16:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * We can't change the words of what the developer interview stated, which did include "cult deprogrammer" and the given example, nor should it be read as an intent that this is possible or likely or politically/religiously backed or anything like that as reported in WP. That's why the full quote is given, as to remove any bias that WP editors may have. --M ASEM  16:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

And not for nothing but there are "deprogrammers" who claim they can (and do) deprogram homosexuality in people. While they certainly aren't the majority (or anything different than old west snakeoil salesmen/charlatans), it's possible that's what the developer was thinking of when he made the statement. In all likelihood, it was probably just an off the cuff example and not a larger socio-political statement (i.e. we shouldn't read too much into one glib comment made during a video game Q&A). 144.92.85.41 (talk) 21:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Early development
Back when development on BioShock was first announced in 2004, the original setting was to have been some sort of underground bunker from WWII. In this lab environment, genetic experiments had gotten out of hand and developed their own ecosystem revolving around humans who had combined themselves with insect DNA (the original basis for the Big Daddy-Little Sister relationship in the final game). Ken Levine stated that the film The Fly with Jeff Goldblum was a big influence on these ideas for him.

You can see some of these ideas and the artwork for them Here in this article at Gamespot and also in the corresponding video interview Here. Why is none of this information mentioned in the article? -- Grandpafootsoldier (talk) 03:31, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Bioshock in Steelbook.
When i brought Bioshock 3 days after release in britian, it had them all in steelbook version, i'm not sure if thay still sell them like that or as the normal version, but i thought it should be put into the artical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.220.159 (talk) 15:45, 28 June 2008 (UTC) It is sold everywhere. Bioshock steelbox is sold in India too. --SkyWalker (talk) 15:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Metropolis
You know, I'd really like to say that rapture is heavily inspired by Fritz Lang's metropolis, but I have no data to back it up. The locales are stunningly similar... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.190.85.36 (talk) 10:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:VG External Links check
This Featured Article has four dead external links, which may be found here. Please fix them as soon as possible. Thank you! --haha169 (talk) 23:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Replaced all 4 with a single link - G4 likes to move links around like that and I can't find them on their site. --M ASEM 23:26, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If they like moving their links, you could always try finding an archive link that stays the same. --haha169 (talk) 00:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to remove date-autoformatting
Dear fellow contributors

MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether a date is autoformatted or not). MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.

There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:

Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. Does anyone object if I remove it from the main text in a few days’ time on a trial basis? The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. Tony  (talk)  13:35, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Extra info for Development section
I found this and thought it might be useful. Its Levine explaining how the Little Sisters came about.

Moral choices came late to BioShock - X201 (talk) 12:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Other influences?
I recently watched the movie City of Lost Children, and I really thought it's visiual style had a very striking resemblance to the game. Also notable is a scene where a man in a large diving suit rescues a little girl from drowning. The antagonist of the movie uses children to extract dreams from as opposed to ADAM and the nautical-themed Steampunk design is also very apparent. I suggest this is added to the article. --213.84.161.16 (talk) 09:52, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We would need a source that says it was an inspiration. Apparent similarities cannot be stated due to original research. --M ASEM  13:18, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Parody comic....
At Another Halo Comic Strip, ZZombie13 made a comic where Master Chief rants about Halo 3 losing the Spike TV Game Awards to BioShock. He desecrates the game, followed shortly by a Big Daddy pinning Chief to the wall by his throat.

Ouch.

AddictedSoldier My talk page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.74.223 (talk) 14:17, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * [relevance needed] 68.41.145.24 (talk) 23:43, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Alternate history?
I just read the introduction where the game is described as being in an "alternate history 1960". It is my understanding that the common use of alternate history is that history developed differently than it did in real life. I do not remember anything happening in Bioshock that indicated the outside world was any different than it was in real life. Medvedenko (talk) 17:42, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Bravo
Yet another videogame article featured on Wikipedia, you guys are really on a roll! It's obvious now why Wikipedia has become the trash-heap it is today, because all the wrong people are in control. Scott 110 (talk) 18:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And someone with 10+ personal attack warnings on their page, who seemingly should have been blocked several times now, is a more reliable candidate for making this decision? I doubt so. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 19:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * For someone that has spent most of their time contributing to Zelda-related pages, your opinion is a little biased now isn't it? Scott 110 (talk) 19:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No one asked for this to be on the front page; Raul (who is in charge of what goes on there) just happened to pick it. --M ASEM  19:43, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And you're apparently biased against video games, perhaps you shouldn't have a say either? (I reckon this entire topic should deleted per WP:TALK anyway.) Rehevkor ✉  19:51, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well you certainly shouldn't. PS. I think the Half-Life 2, episode 2 article is not NPOV, perhaps you should get right on that? Sigh. Scott 110 (talk) 20:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well thankfully I have nothing to say on the subject either way, so everyone wins! Rehevkor ✉  20:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * To be fair, the rate of video game TFAs is unacceptable. Once a month (hovering just above 3%) is far too infrequent; after all, video games are one of the largest entertainment media in the world. Let's bump that up to at least two per month. Oh, and to the editors: congratulations, and keep up the good work. Nufy8 (talk) 20:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Says someone who believes "reverting without giving just cause is bad faith". Very logical. Haipa Doragon (talk • contributions) 20:46, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * HEY GUYS I JUST GOT THIS GREAT IDEA. LET'S PUT OUT A DISH FOR TROLLS TO EAT OUT OF! 68.41.145.24 (talk) 23:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Technical Issues
Bioshock on the PC suffers from some hybrid of mouse acceleration and filtering which, at least, in my opinion, impacts gameplay significantly. As an fps, albeit one light on combat, mouse filtering and acceleration which introduce this kind of inconsistent input end up significantly impacting gameplay. However, most players are likely to not notice this, just as the majority of people don't notice input lag on their LCD HDTVs. In fact, if enough people, for some reason, happen to read this, then someone might in fact contend that there is no problem with the mouse control. However, there is a 56 page (10 posts per page) long thread on the 2k Games forums full of complaints about this issue. In my opinion, this is a very notable technical issue, which 2k Games has somewhat acknowledged by trying to address it in a patch. Yet, it remains unresolved. 70.181.55.96 (talk) 02:05, 7 August 2008 (UTC) Dave 70.181.55.96

I also think this is worth a specific mention. For me the game was unplayable until I figured out a work-around, and even still gameplay was very flaky and prone to erratic behavior.

I think it came down to the fact they designed the game for the XBOX 360 analogue thumb-stick as an input method then used additional code to emulate it with a PC mouse, as opposed to what most PC-FPS's do which is use a locked 1:1 recoding of the mouse's output then scale from there.

It works out ok for a lot of "normal" PC mouses but for for the higher end stuff, especially gaming mice with high report rates (500-1,000 dots per inch) or one with a variable DPI then forget it, you are screwed. What makes thing worse is that most work-arounds revolve around .ini changes which are prone to becoming nullified or stacking on eachother with level changes or quick-loads. I could never quite get it working well, period. Perhaps Vista with all its own eccentricities has partially to blame.

Hayaku (talk) 12:57, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Rapture
I am new and do not know how to make a new page, but i think the city featured in bioshock, Rapture, should have it's own page, there is lots of information, pictures, history, clubs, districts,machines,people, in it and i think it deserves it's own page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pilidis (talk • contribs) 02:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Does City 17 have its own page? Nope. A Rapture page is for a more specific wiki, maybe one focusing on video games exclusively. But not on the general wiki of Wikipedia. 68.41.145.24 (talk) 23:41, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

BLASTED USER: |Chase from yahoo!-tech o SECUrom|... engine piracy is avoided by the union of poseidon in invariously extremley-tricky ways depending on level of protect-organisation, poseidon here - gets other people to have an engine-fight in order to protect what in some ways is a sequal to the spectrum game hydrofool... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.26.229 (talk) 11:46, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

updated the game on the 360
It just updated again on my 360, tell me does this usually happen since I did get the first update. 92.10.127.53 (talk) 18:46, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Criticism of Objectivism
Based on the Boston Globe article, it appears that the game is more condemnation of Objectivism rather than praise, I don't know if this is glossed over in the text or appropriate. How much emphasis is on Rand and her works? I was under the impression that the game was quite heavily based on an exploration of it, but based on my reading of Bray it seems less exploration, more criticism. WLU (t) (c) (rules - simple rules) 17:17, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Gameplay: EVE is bought with money, not ADAM
The text states:

"Quantities of ADAM can be used to purchase plasmids, EVE, and other genetic mutations at special "Gatherers Gardens" vending machines throughout the game."

but after having played the game for quite a while I have to object to that. Until now (more than halfway through) I have not found a single Gatherers Garden that sells EVE - actually the only way to get it is to either find it or to buy it at a Circus Vending Machine for money.

Or did I get something wrong here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.84.158 (talk) 23:31, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As I recall, you are correct. You buy passive and active plasmids with ADAM, but EVE is just from other vending machines and found loose.

--12.21.161.34 (talk) 21:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Dystopia or Anti-utopia?
i believe that the dystopias in this article should be replaced with anti-utopia because according to Dystopia "A dystopia does not pretend to be utopian, while an anti-utopia appears to be utopian or was intended to be so, but a fatal flaw or other factor has destroyed or twisted the intended utopian world or concept."

rapture was inteded to be a utopian society but failed so it should be classified as a anti-utopian

if anyone disagrees with this then undo the changes

thanks Loosecannon93 (talk) 23:21, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * While that may be a fair interpretation, commentary from critics on the game call it "dystopia", and to make that judgement for ourselves engages in original research which we should avoid. --M ASEM 23:23, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I want to reiterate this point since I see someone changed it again: every source I've seen that describes Rapture in this type of light states "dystopia", not "anti-utopia". It may be because they are unaware of this term, or don't recognize the subtle difference between the two, or truly believe it was a dystopia, but we cannot correct these sources, and given this term is never used in the primary source, it is original research to assume it ourselves. If there is a source that is reliable and says "anti-utopia", then great, we can use it, but we don't have that presently. --M ASEM 18:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

The setting refers to where the character currently is, not what it used to be. At the point where the game begins, it is a dystopia. Almost everyone who is still alive in Rapture is insane and usually trying to kill one another in order to get Adam/Eve or even just being within line of sight. They aren't pretending to be anything other than what they are and Rapture currently is. While this system is horrific, it functions for them as a dystopia.

Merriam Webster (online dictionary) defines dystopia as: "Dystopia - 1) An imaginary place where people lead dehumanized and often fearful lives. 2) Anti-utopia" (By the by, Merriam defines Anti-utopia as a "1) dystopia" or "2) A work describing an anti-utopia"

Wiktionary: Dystopia - 1) A vision of a future that is a corrupted (usually beyond recognition) utopian society 2) State in which the condition of life is extremely bad as from deprivation or oppression or terror synonyms: anti-utopia

This debate is a distinction without a difference. As defined by those two sources, dystopia is exactly what Rapture is in the most literal sense (and as was pointed out, what the people who made the game call it). 144.92.84.206 (talk) 14:41, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The possibility for confusion (dystopia by design or dystopia by failed utopia) is why I clarified in brackets with "failed utopian". – xeno  ( talk ) 14:50, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * We absolutely need a source that calls it a failed utopia. To say that ourselves is original research.  If you have a source, great, we can add it. --M ASEM  15:00, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's already in there. (from CVG) – xeno  ( talk ) 15:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Got it. As to avoid the confusion in the lede, I've removed both terms and placed them in the setting section. --M ASEM  15:12, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool. Tweaked to accurately represent source. I'm sure we could source "Anti-utopian" too though, if we wanted. – xeno  ( talk ) 15:15, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

"BioShock takes place in the year 1960 in a self-contained undersea dystopia named Rapture." - Gamezone http://pc.gamezone.com/gzreviews/r24999.htm "Rapture: a subaqueous Objectivist dystopia in which unbridled anarcho-capitalism, unhampered by morality, leads to the dehumanization, the genetic mutilation of its populace and the ultimate squelching of free will." - Ectoplasmosis http://www.ectomo.com/index.php/2008/03/13/rapture-is-dead-bioshock-2-announced/ "It may sound like a ridiculously silly cliche to describe a game set in an underwater dystopia as immersive, but while the pun may not be intended, it is wholly unavoidable because BioShock will completely enmesh you within the fully-realized broken-down paradise of Rapture." - GameFly http://www.gamefly.com/products/detail.asp?pid=121645&t=&tab=2&v=782899 "BioShock comes to the PlayStation 3 sporting the same aquatic utopia-turned-dystopia that made the game one of 2007's best, along with Trophies, a new "Survivor" difficulty level and challenge rooms, to be released as downloadable content "shortly after launch." - Joystiq http://www.joystiq.com/tag/2k-games

And

Ken Levine of 2K Games, writer BioShock

""We joke that everyone should have known that a game about a pseudo-objectivist dystopia would be a huge hit," he said. "My initial goal for BioShock was to create an environment that people could buy into and to have a level of detail that you just don't see in games now. We have an opportunity to have players pull content out of the game rather than to push it at them."" - Kotaku Feb 15, 2008 http://kotaku.com/354717/no-gods-or-kings-objectivism-in-bioshock 144.92.84.206 (talk) 17:09, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * ...and? if you want to include the term "anti-utopia" as well, find a reliable source somewhere among these hits and add it in there with the ref. – xeno  ( talk ) 18:18, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Major and/or credible sources refer to Bioshock as taking place in a Dystopia. No where have I seen the word Anti-Utopia used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aphrodite4497 (talk • contribs) 04:39, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Sequel
Uh.., shouldn't we have a seperate page for the sequel now? I mean, we've quite a list. 80.0.62.77 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:18, 12 March 2009 (UTC).
 * That section is a bit of a mess, if we cut the extraneous information and clean it up we'll have little more than a couple of paragraphs, not really enough to warrant an article of it's own just yet. Doubt it'll be long before one is needed though. Rehevkor ✉  18:25, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * looks at deadrising two article* 80.0.62.77 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC).

Ok, now that the GI preview article is out and details have been made available (eg ) I think we can safely start a sequel article. Any objections? --M ASEM (t) 15:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

None. I change the sentence about the sequel and removed the subtitle, since it's not even on the sequel's page yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rgalginaitis (talk • contribs) 13:48, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Zero Punctuation?
Ok, does anyone feel like adding to this article's reception section about the ZP (Zero Punctuation) review? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.59.117.227 (talk) 02:31, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ZP is not a significantly important reviewer to be added. --M ASEM (t) 02:36, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is that? He has 2 rather lengthy articles right here on Wikipedia.. one for his ZP reviews, and a personal page.  If he is notable enough for 2 full articles, I see no reason why he isn't important enough to have his reviews used in other articles.

what would make him a significant reviewer. His reviews are on a game review website and he's paid to make them.


 * His reviews are tongue in cheek. While he might make valid points we can pick up on in featured articles (Portal for example), not every article should quote his reviews, there are many many more serious (and more reliable) reviews out there we can use instead. Rehevkor  ✉  19:57, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

New Info on Bioshock film
I have found some new information about the director of the Bioshock film on this website: http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=54317 Someone please extend the artical about the Bioshock film based on the Info I found. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bill Bon Jovi (talk • contribs) 23:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That information is already in the article. ~ QuasiAbstract {talk/contrib} 12:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

the engine is unreal 3
the engine is unreal 3, not 2.5 with unreal3. http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/121329/bioshock-ken-levine-talks-morality-system-shock-3-possibilities/ Markthemac (talk) 20:16, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

the engine is unreal 2.5
Actually the engine is a heavily modified version of Unreal 2.5, that later had some elements from Unreal 3 added. It is NOT pure Unreal Engine 3. The same engine has been used for other games before this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MangyHound (talk • contribs) 14:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

The Rendering part of the engine is 100% UE3. The iz3D Steroscopic Driver had issues with all UE3 games recently causing them to crash on init. Bioshock was included in this. UE2 games however worked perfectly fine. Thats not to say other parts of the game are UE2.5, just that the Renderer is UE3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.205.115.120 (talk) 11:54, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Digital Extremes assisted with PS3 version
The article states that 2k Marin developed the PS3 version. Actually, much of the work was carried out by an outside studio called Digital Extremes.

Digital Extremes Onboard for Bioshock PS3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by MangyHound (talk • contribs) 14:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Is "Alternate History" really appropriate?
Describing the story line as an alternate history or alternate timeline could be construed as being misleading. Rapture was designed to be a secret society, a hidden city, much like the gulches in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, and was not public knowledge. The implication of the in-game story elements is that Rapture was built as a secret enclave while all of the related history, such as passing references to the Nanking Massacre strongly imply that the game is set in our actual timeline. Obviously, no city like Rapture was known to be built, but since the historical path used was identical to reality, is this not more a fictional setting within the actual timeline rather than a fully alternate timeline?

It seemed premature to remove the item without opening a discussion, but it does seem rather misleading to label the whole work an item of alternate history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.107.67.88 (talk) 18:20, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I would have to agree with you. Dark verdant (talk) 08:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

"Ayn Rand/George Orwell-inspired dystopian back-story"
George Orwell is not mentioned in the citation, as well as this, the dystopia formed in Bioshock (Rapture) is dissimilar to that of 1984. I think his name should be removed

It should also be noted that it also may be misleading to suggest that it is a Ayn Rand inspired dystopia, not that it is untrue, but rather, that Ayn Rand also created a dystopian novel (Anthem), which Bioshock does not mention and Rapture is also dissimilar to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torched-Geek (talk • contribs) 03:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit:- To clarify, it is Atlas-Shrugged, which the article says, that is what Rapture is inspired by, not Anthem. It should be rephrased accordingly. Torched-Geek (talk) 03:35, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Andrew Ryan (Bioshock)
Anyone who can help expand this, please do so. I was kind of foolish and ended up spoiling a lot of content for the game for myself, so I'm pretty much done, though I'll be playing Bioshock so I can join in with the editing. Thanks! Here are some links that may help (spoilers!):     - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 05:30, 10 October 2009 (UTC)