Talk:Bipolar disorder/Archive 9

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2019
I am looking at this sentence in the introduction of the article: "Due to poor lifestyle choices and side effects from medications, the risk of death from natural causes such as heart disease is twice that of the general population."

It should be amended to read something along these lines: "Due to common behavior patterns among those afflicted with bipolar disorder, as well as to the side effects of medications frequently used to treat the disorder, the risk of death from natural causes such as heart disease is twice that of the general population."

There are a few problems with the sentence as it stands, but the main problem is the phrase "poor lifestyle choices." This phrase is judgmental, vague, and altogether un-encyclopedic. Another problem is this: Side effects are *of* medication, not *from* medication. Another problem is this: Among whom is the risk of natural causes twice that of the general population? The answer to that question is: among sufferers from bipolar disorder. That should be included in the sentence.

I recognize the sentence I've constructed might sound a little awkward to some, but it's a start. LeRichard11 (talk) 04:28, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable - you should be able to edit this page as it is only semiprotected not full-protected...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)


 * He's not autoconfirmed yet. And I agree the changes are an improvement.  I've made the changes myself.  Dennis Brown - 2&cent; 18:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * We do not use the term "afflicted" per WP:MEDMOS. Will adjust further. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 18:35, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Adjusted to "Due to lifestyle choices and the side effects of medications, the risk of death from natural causes such as heart disease in people with bipolar is twice that of the general population." Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:40, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2019
In the Bipolar Disorder page please move the paragraph under "Causes" to the "Genetics" paragraph. Please remove the title "Causes". Please remove the first and last sentences under "causes" (please see below for reference): Please remove the first sentence "The causes of bipolar disorder likely vary between individuals and the exact mechanism underlying the disorder remains unclear.[42]". Please remove the last sentence "Estrogen in women, has been linked to bipolar disorder.[46][47]

After these edits are done the first sentence under the Genetics title should read "Genetic influences are believed to account for 60-80 percent of the rick of developing the disorder indicating....:

Thank you very much-flamingo2019 Flamingo2019 (talk) 18:44, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Please provide a clear rationale as to why you would like these changes made as well as reliable sources that corroborate your reasons. &#160; Discant  X  01:44, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Attn. Administrators: Semi-Protected Edit Request on 3/5/19 to include link for Ronald Braunstein
Hello Fellow Wikipedian Editors: Kind consider incorporating the following text at the end of the section entitled Society and Culture
 * '''In an effort to ease the social stigma associated with bipolar disorder, the orchestra conductor Ronald Braunstein cofounded the
 * ME/2 Orchestra with his wife Caroline Whiddon in 2011. Braunstein was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 1985 and his concerts with the ME/2 Orchestra were conceived in order to create a welcoming performance environment for his musical colleagues, while also raising public awareness about mental illness.'''

Many thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration and best wishes for your continued success on Wikipedia. Respectfully, 72.69.152.90 (talk) 15:41, 5 March 2019 (UTC)JJ 104.207.219.150 (talk) 00:18, 6 March 2019 (UTC)PS
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done NiciVampireHeart 09:22, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm a "strong bipolar"
In article nobody wrote that the true bipolar refuse the refuse and likes revenge. It's not the best to describe disorder. I use Li2CO3 300 mgx3/day + 50 gtt clonazepam/day. I image (i'm sure) why Hitler did that. He was refused by a Jew girl without doubt ( what happened to Jew people could have happened to Dutch people if she would have been Dutch) and then he had revenge like i would have done in a huge scale. I'm sure he left her alive to show what she caused without hitting her and to show her whom she refused. There are Hitler official pics with a young Jew girl that he helped a lot and that could have been linked with this fact. Many academics have no idea of this ill. Yes melancholy( L'infinito by Leopardi, the Moonlight sonata by Beethoven and Thomas Grey elegy are the best expressions of this) and obsessive mania for death (i lost both parents when 25 within 1 year; dad died 31/12/1999 at 18,30 by brain stroke, mum after a long cancer suffering a lot), sex (i'm crazy for really born redhaired girls because more difficult to meet; like extreme sex) or cleaning-perfection (cleaning home and cemetery like a ryte; i'm able to forecast finance and other people moving easily; beyond every 6th sense) strong like irony towards others. True bipolars don't likes irony and lies. They can be very cold like the oppsite. They've many times panic crisis not because of fear but because of rage(amigdala). Most intelligent ones for instance read history like today not like in books, but considering behind all hidden powers. When somebody refuses me in main things i consider him/her lower.Grey was right in describing hidden and never seen best flowers in deep oceans. 82.53.126.175 (talk) 19:54, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 * While we are sorry to hear of your story, we cannot accept your personal account as it is considered original research. Please find reliable sources that support an alternative description of the disorder.--Jasper Deng (talk) 08:17, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Ok. Let me some days to do it.82.53.126.175 (talk) 09:45, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

The image
I am not a fan of the stereotypic image at the top, what do we think of something like this? E.3 (talk) 16:35, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 * WP:IMAGERELEVANCE is a problem here, the photo of the building is not very relevant either. The problem is finding an image that looks relevant and has CC status.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 18:27, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I take your point. I hope this image that I've WP:Boldly put on the front page seems like a more relevant artist impression than previous.

The current image is classically used. I am not seeing either of these as an improvement. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:01, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Where is it classically used other than here? A google image search only shows we use it. It is a comedy and tragedy mask. A caricature. I put a bit of effort into making this one today Bipolar_mood_shifts.png with four different revisions for review. --E.3 (talk) 15:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Images should look like what they are meant to illustrate
 * I really don't think that a comedy and tragedy mask looks like bipolar disorder at all. --E.3 (talk) 15:21, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

It is still a classic image. And is used by a whole bunch of reputable organizations to illustrate this condition. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:49, 8 June 2019 (UTC) Can you please provide sources for your "classically used" comment? There are multiple people with this medical condition who are telling you it's condescending and inaccurate, and all you can say is "somebody else uses it." Let us know who does, so we can address those harmful stereotypes elsewhere, too. Straightjackets are "classically used," as well, but you don't see people using them to denote mental illnesses in the 21st century. Blackface was classically used to connote black people, and yet, it's inappropriate and racist. You are harming a community with your ignorance, and then you dismiss their real concerns with the word "classical," as if an appeal to tradition is an appropriate logical fallacy to go by. Who, specifically, uses this image? Provide the names of these "reputable" institutions who use it. ACTUAL people with this disorder have told you repeatedly you are harming them. How about no image? If you feel no change is warranted, then link the source of these reputable institutions using this image. Then, cite THAT institution as using that image, not as if it's universally accepted that bipolar people fluctuate between comedy and tragedy. Or even happy or sad. Mania and depression are NOT happy and sad. Those are NOT clinical conditions.

Names of Bipolar Disorder and Manic Depressive Illness
One of the most confusing things about this mental illness is, unfortunately, the name and classification of it.

Some people prefer to call it manic depressive illness, and it can cause harm when a person is called "bipolar". This is because the name of the illness is "bipolar disorder", so it is describing them with their mental illness, similarly to calling a person with cancer "cancer".

It would be good, I think, to mention that it is also known as "manic depressive illness". That was its official name before, and it is sometimes called that, still. It wasn't called "manic depression", so perhaps that could be changed at least. "Manic depressive illness" is an official name for it, and pertains to a person going between a manic and depressive state. "Manic depression" is a misnomer in that "manic" is describing "depression", which is not necessarily the case. They are two different mental conditions. A person can experience mania or depression. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:196:8800:B860:757C:9D04:1356:B978 (talk) 19:48, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I disagree this outdated terminology of "manic depression" is not 1. in common use, 2. accepted by the medical community, or the community at large anymore E.3 (talk) 16:35, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

There are multiple types of bi polar, but when bipolar was known as manic depression, we only knew about the one type. Bi polar affective is now what people with manic depression would have. Another type of bipolar is schizaffective disorder which is bi polar that has done symptoms of schizophrenia. I think there are other types too. Rockchicksar (talk) 10:56, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

I agree with people who have commented here and would like to be able to contribute to edits as I have bipolar myself. Rockchicksar (talk) 10:58, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

June 2019
This is an atrocious webpage. People with bipolar stand out in society as head and shoulders above the rest. The Greek philosopher whose Republic was used by Republicans as the basis for their political party... you know.. PLATO... he was bipolar. Yeah yeah Mozart and Beethoven... the greatest composers of the most complex music form ever made... they were bipolar. But so what? Right? For awhile "Sunflowers" was the most expensive painting ever sold... the artist? Van Gogh? He was bipolar too. But let's just focus on living generations shall we? The guy that got the US out of the Great Depression? Teddy Roosevelt? He was bipolar. WWII MVP? Winston Churchill? Bipolar. The paratrooper playing "Star Spangled Banner" for all the hippies? Jimi Hendrix was bipolar. Would be spokesman of Gen X... Kurt Cobain was bipolar. Can't have Star Wars without Princess Leia. Carrie Fischer was bipolar. Like Christmas songs? Greatest selling Christmas album of all time belongs to Mariah Carey and she is bipolar. Six albums/year Kanye. Bipolar.

If I was to read this wikipedia page and not know myself what a glorious gift it is to be bipolar, I'd probably be in favor in eugenics to dispose of the genes that cause this "disorder," but I know better. Could you imagine what this world would be without the contributions of the people listed above? I can't. And oh. The greatest leader America has ever known? Abe Lincoln? He was bipolar also. Yeah we're different, but to us you're all the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.69.162.30 (talk) 13:56, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Do you have a specific proposal to improve the Bipolar disorder article? TylerDurden8823 (talk) 23:29, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2019
Please remove the image, as it adds nothing to the information, and it's furthering the stereotype that bipolar people are "dramatic." Those are drama and comedy masks. Masks, like hiding your identity. It's just condescending and has no place in an article about a medical disability. 2620:0:10FA:FD00:F4D6:8CA5:4E55:7EF2 (talk) 18:51, 25 November 2019 (UTC)


 * We have had this discussion. You can find the reputable sources in the talk history. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 19:18, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Disclaimer for mental health proposal
We should add a note for all mental health pages saying something like: This is an encyclopedic article, and is not a replacement for a professional diagnosis. If you feel like you need help please talk to someone, preferrably a psychiatrist, as soon as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by C1MM (talk • contribs) 05:20, 4 December 2019 (UTC)


 * This is already covered by the General disclaimer which is at the foot of every page. It says "If you need specific advice (for example, medical, legal, financial or risk management), please seek a professional who is licensed or knowledgeable in that area." Whether there should be a specific disclaimer for all mental health articles is beyond the scope of this article and should be raised at Village pump (proposals). There is currently a similar discussion at VPP here, but in the past specific disclaimers have often been rejected because all articles are covered by the General disclaimer. See also this VPP discussion.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 06:41, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Section order
In my opinion it is perfectly reasonable for the ordering of sections to follow the typical ordering in MEDMOS. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:53, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * As per the discussion on schizophrenia, they don't flow so well that way. And there is nothing proscriptive about the order on MEDMOS. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:29, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Misleading Prevention Section
Currently, the statement regarding Bipolar Disorder (BD) prevention is misleading and does not accurately represent the cited journal article. The journal article pertains to the research of chronic cannabis abuse, not, "the usage of cannabis", as the Wiki article currently states.

Therefore, I suggest that the sentence be changed from, "There has been debate regarding the causal relationship between usage of cannabis and bipolar disorder", to "There has been debate regarding the relationship between the abuse of cannabis and bipolar disorder."

Justification

 * 1) The word, 'casual' seems to only be included because it's written within the first sentence of the referenced article's abstract. Not sure how the debate being casual is relevant.
 * 2) The word, 'usage', may mislead readers to think that short-term or non-abusive cannabis use causes BD, however, no evidence is referenced in the Wikipedia article. Moreover, the largest amount of cases referenced within the cited article, have only shown cases of psychosis (not BD) linked with the abuse of cannabis; there is only a single case report described an individual patient, who exhibited observed links between a long-term abuse of cannabis and clinically diagnosed BD.  Additionally, the researchers found that  "established vulnerability to psychosis"' and/or "lifetime of cannabis use," showed an increase in the risk of cannabis-induced psychosis. The researchers specifically noted no observed effect between recent or short-term cannabis use and psychosis.

Henkenny (talk) 22:47, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I removed it as it was vague and cited to a case report - material needs to be cited to Review papers in medical articles. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:22, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

First line treatment for mania
This text was added "Mood stabilizers—lithium and certain anticonvulsants such as valproate and carbamazepine—are the mainstay of treatment in acute manic episodes and long-term relapse prevention."

Yet the ref provided says "Antipsychotics are first line treatment for mania, particularly if severe"

Sure maybe things have changed since 2012 but we should at least have a ref that supports the content in question. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:04, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Have updated to this 2016 review https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388529 Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 21:18, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * That is a good review and am trawling through updating now. Be good to get some even more recent review material Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:13, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Catatonia
Catatonia is defined as "Catatonia is a state of stupor or unresponsiveness in a person who is otherwise awake." As a poor understood term better to at least define it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:33, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * "Decreased responsiveness" is so general as to be misleading (could cover delirium, dementia, grieving, alcohol or benzo intoxication) - catatonia is pretty characteristic when you see it. I want someone to click on the link and read it as the parenthetical explanation is not helpful in understanding it. Hence this parenthetical explanation as it stands is not helpful. I think I have a compromise, a footnote. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:27, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * So how would you define it than? I think "decreased responsiveness in someone who is otherwise awake" is reasonable. I am not a big fan of footnotes. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 02:30, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Have a look now - I've treated a few cases and they're pretty characteristic when you see them. Seems to be rarer nowadays, because (I think) of the widespread use of antipsychotics such as quetiapine and olanzapine in primary healthcare. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:38, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Yah I guess. Not really an easy succinct way to describe catatonia. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 02:41, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Heritability
I am not seeing this source saying it is 60%

Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:06, 11 April 2020 (UTC)


 * I can't see it either Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:53, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Sorry I'm just starting to use this platform and didn't realize my refs wouldn't copy from the Sandbox. It is from a review by Smoller & Smoller on twin and adoption studies. The estimates they give are 59%-87%. doi: 10.1002/ajmg.c.20013 Ref: Smoller, J. W., & Finn, C. T. (2003). Family, twin, and adoption studies of bipolar disorder. American Journal of Medical Genetics, 123C, 48–58. doi: 10.1002/ajmg.c.20013 Arpgurp (talk) 21:23, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * We have newer secondary sources included in the article that we cite with a narrower range. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 22:09, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2020
Add Selena Gomez to celebrities with Bipolar disorder Jpconnors9 (talk) 20:47, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The list in this article is not intended to be a comprehensive one. There's a far more complete list at List of people with bipolar disorder which is not protected from editing, please feel free to edit that list (with reliable sources, of course!) &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 20:56, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Pre-FAC tinkering...
(Starting a new section as GA review over and getting a bit bloated) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:37, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Right then...


 * I think the Cost subsection would go better in Epidemiology than Society and culture section.
 * That's fine. I don't have a strong objection to that. I just modeled it after Parkinson Disease's FA per Ajpolino's suggestion in the GA review and that one was under the society & culture section. But, either way sounds fine. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 11:47, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok done now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:04, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hmm, Doc James thinks otherwise. I don't care strongly enough about it to make a big deal as I can see cases for either location. Happy to wait till FAC and go with consensus there. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:22, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. I don't feel strongly about it. If the community has a strong consensus one way or the other, I wouldn't vociferously object. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:02, 19 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I am in two minds about ditching all reference to ultrarapid cycling bipolar - after its definition in 2003, it is mainly mentioned in case studies (see material since 2016) and is not in DSM-5.
 * I actually think this sounds reasonable. I basically see nothing written about it on PubMed within the last 5 years beyond just a handful of case reports, as you said. I don't see any recent secondary sources discussing the topic, which raises serious concerns for me about how well-accepted it is among the psychiatric community (though I imagine you're more familiar with that than I am). TylerDurden8823 (talk) 16:08, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I ditched it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:28, 25 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The children and elderly sections have old sources and some editorialing - I'll try and find later sources and see how they hold up.
 * update - I found this which looks good. Need to sleep as after m idnight here in Oz. Will add later. Interesting review actually. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:17, 18 March 2020 (UTC) added. The neuroimaging in the paper sits on the fence a bit so left out for the moment. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:37, 19 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Okay, regarding the claim made by this that it is no longer controversial...strikes me as a trifle...ambitious. I need to digest some material on that and get consensus. But what is good is the graph on page 4 of the moods over time - more what I was thinknig (i.e. variations in the normal mood range to emphasise it is a episodic illness Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:40, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I already emailed the primary author about the image to see if they will allow us to use it for the page. Can you elaborate a bit more on why you feel the claim about bipolar in children no longer being controversial is, well, controversial (or ambitious)? Is it a concern about the source? It was recommended to me by a Child and Adolescent psychiatry colleague and does appear to be written by reasonable experts (first author from UPMC I believe). Other sound contemporary sources, which I'm happy to add since I wasn't finished with that section yet, (e.g.,, , [this reference explicitly says the controversy has dissipated and was written in 2017] ) seem to also treat the diagnosis as uncontroversial as to whether it exists in the pediatric population (unlike the older 2008 paper currently cited in the article). I do see some ongoing controversy, as of 2017, about pediatric mania , but not about whether bipolar disorder occurs in children. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:17, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It is a fiddly topic area for many reasons - best not to go into detail here, but despite the discrepancy between what psychiatrists think and what is published, we have to go with reliable sources. Hence I would posit that there are controversial aspects in its incidence and (likely over)diagnosis but will just take an extra look at literature and see where we can roll with it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:18, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, it wouldn't surprise me if there are certain aspects of it that are controversial such as its specific incidence (I do see that there are variable estimates and we do reflect that), but its existence specifically doesn't seem to be particularly contentious at this point based on the preponderance of recent sources that seem to indicate otherwise. I'm not ruling out the possibility that some child & adolescent psychiatrists don't believe it, but it doesn't seem to be the mainstream view from what I can see so far. If a sizable portion of CAPs don't think it's real or think it's vastly overdiagnosed, that seems like something I would expect to find published (at least somewhere). I'll do another sweep of the literature soon and incorporate some of the aforementioned articles to strengthen the sourcing in the meanwhile. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 23:34, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I am browsing. I have an idea and will tweak once I have digested another couple of articles. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:57, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Right, one of the long-term issues in adult and child bipolar disorder is the concept of mood swings. In lay-terms it is used to mean Emotional dysregulation (i.e. over seconds/minutes/hours), generally seen in personality disorder and elsewhere. However it is also used to describe the (months-long+) swings between manic and depressive phases in bipolar disorder. I have had to clarify this often IRL. This Disruptive mood dysregulation disorder is a new diagnosis (and not uncontroversial) that covers kids with frequent outbursts. Its criteria are quite different to BD and epidemiologically seemingly unrelated. More later. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:41, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , the first author of the chapter and image we discussed that better demonstrates the mood swing pattern of bipolar disorder replied to my email and has given us permission to use the image on Wikipedia. He said he thinks IACAPAP would likely want to have the chapter cited (doesn't seem problematic to me at all) and otherwise said yes. Is there anything else we need to do in order to use the image? I'm unfamiliar with the process for using an image in this manner. I'm wondering if you know. If not, I'll ask around to clarify if any other steps need to be taken. Thanks! Also, nice edits today! TylerDurden8823 (talk) 05:33, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Can do this either of two ways - either get the person to upload a copy of the image, or make a replica of the image and cite the source. Either would work. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:14, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Dilemma
None of the Physiological section is sourced to review material, just loads of primary source articles (metaanalyses are primary sources, though good ones). There are diverse findings, but none have any real traction in review articles or clinical practice (well, HPA axis stuff maybe has some traction). Question is - do we remove all as non-secondary (as I can't see any recent secondary sources referring to any of this), or leave the section as it (sort of) qualifies as "research" and hence is not "clinical medicine" Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:13, 26 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Actually my bad - found this, this and this. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:34, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * My understanding has always been that systematic reviews and meta-analyses were regarded as secondary sources here on Wikipedia . Is that not the case? If so, can you show me where it says that for my future reference? Also, I see several secondary sources in this section. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:58, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my bad. Just went looking and found contrary. Okay. The section still needs some going over and reordering. And is more about neuroanatomy than physiology for starters. The HPA probably has the greatest general discussion and is at the bottom, and the dopamine material likewise. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:55, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Okay - I've done this as none of the theories have widespread consensus and none have any influence in clinical practice whatsoever. We have a large number of proposed different theories - the section is large. Now to look to see if it can be rationalised at all - the neurochemical theories have greater traction so are better up the top but musing on how to restructure/reword....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:50, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Then we have review articles like this and this which list even more hypotheses. We haven't even covered inflammatory markers...but then again they were talked about around 5-10 years ago and seem forgotten now. All the material in this section is from references dated 2004-2014 as is. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:58, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Bookmark
Just noting feedback from SandyGeorgia at User_talk:SandyGeorgia/arch109. For noting. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Image choice
The main image on this page does a disservice to those with bipolar and those who are trying to learn more about it as doesn't accurately represent the illness. Masks imply that the behavior expressed by those with bipolar is an act. It is not. This image appears to be just clip art and does not add to the quality of the page. ScoutHarris (talk) 16:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, this has been discussed several times, including at Talk:Bipolar_disorder/Archive_7 and at Talk:Bipolar_disorder/Archive_8. The consensus appears to have been that it was best left out in these two 2016 discussions. It is then added back in April 2017 but I can't see any contemporaneous discussion in the archives. Sorry, discussion is at Talk:Bipolar_disorder/Archive_8 (early 2017). Then there was an RfC in September 2018 (Talk:Bipolar_disorder/Archive_8) that was closed without consensus. As the image was in the box at the start of teh RfC, it was left there at the end. Aaand brought up again in 2019. (Talk:Bipolar_disorder/Archive_9). I don't agree that it suggests the condition is an act, but I can see issues with other objectors to it (oversimplifies condition etc.) so it might be time to have another proper discussion/RfC. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:59, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2020
bipolar disorder is a syndrome that causes mental illness like depression, loss in appetite and many other symptoms and  it is claimed that Indian actor sushant singh rajput had bipolar disorder for his suicide, Investigation are going on regarding actors death.--Sindhuja117 (talk) 17:26, 10 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Please provide a WP:MEDRS and WP:BLP compliant source, and see WP:MEDMOS on notable cases. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  17:32, 10 August 2020 (UTC)


 * See also Death of Sushant Singh Rajput. It needs to come from an official source such as a coroner's office, not media reports.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 17:38, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
 * And if it does, it goes at List of people with bipolar disorder, not here. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  17:56, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
 * And if it does, it goes at List of people with bipolar disorder, not here. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  17:56, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2020
The phrase "special relationship with God", in my opinion, should read "special relationship with the patient's God or Gods"

Just a thought :-) Jrock1203 (talk) 18:25, 8 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Not really an improvement. It seems to be echoing this quote by Ricky Gervais.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 16:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Bipolar Disorder and the Gut-brain axis
Recent research (Generoso et. al. 2020)(Hamdani et. al. 2015) indicates that the [|gut-brain axis] may play an important role in Bipolar Disorder and offers hope for some future treatments. A case study from Australia (Hinton 2015)discusses the resolution of Bipolar 1 Disorder symptoms in a treatment resistant patient following [|fecal microbiota transplant (FMT)] EgerniaGuy (talk) 01:53, 27 February 2021 (UTC)EgerniaGuy

"Souutsubyou" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Souutsubyou. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 9 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm Talk 06:27, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2021
delete "a comorbidity" in the sentence below

"Anxiety disorders occur more frequently a comorbidity in mixed bipolar episodes than in non-mixed bipolar depression or mania." WeedCandy (talk) 18:48, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Comorbidity "is the presence of one or more additional conditions often co-occurring with a primary condition." therefore the vocabulary seems appropriate. I've corrected the sentence though. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:56, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2019 and 26 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Tmatkins19, Mojoad33.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 15:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Remove speculative incorrect paragraph
Delete as speculative and factually inaccurate statements: “Substance (including alcohol) abuse also follows this trend, thereby appearing to depict bipolar symptoms as no more than a consequence of substance abuse.[40]”

The cited reference cOntains no such conclusions. 70.40.98.35 (talk) 04:24, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Lamotrigine should be added to the anticonvulsants that treat bipolar disorder in the introduction.
As the title says, lamotrigine which is a mood stabiliser and is also an anticonvulsant, should be added to the list of medications that are listed in the third paragraph. Lamotrigine has already been written in the mood stabilisers section, so it should be also be written in the third paragraph.

I suggest that it be rephrased like so: Mood stabilisers — lithium and certain anticonvulsants such as valproate, carbamazepine and lamotrigine as well as atypical antipsychotics such as aripiprazole — are the mainstay of long-term pharmacologic relapse prevention. UnbakedBeans (talk) 13:56, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, I can help improve this section. Do you have the reference handy that supports this? JenOttawa (talk) 16:36, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Grammatical error in first sentence
Hello!

I believe that the phrase "abnormally-elevated mood" is incorrect; adverbs that end in "-ly" should not be hyphenated. Instead, I think it should be "abnormally elevated mood".

Here is a source on hyphenation conventions; see "Rule 3". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Milazzon (talk • contribs) 16:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Removal of cited text Manicdotes by Joseph C
I'm unable to find any references to the text Manicdotes by Joseph C. At one point in 2012 there was reference to the book and the author in =Society and Culture= where it said

"In his autobiography Manicdotes: There's Madness in His Method (2008) Chris Joseph describes his struggle between the creative dynamism which allowed the creation of his multi-million pound advertising agency Hook Advertising, and the money-squandering dark despair of his bipolar illness."

It's no longer in the section, and seeing how the article has gotten to GA status should the section put the information to keep the cited text, or remove [cited text]? Estoytranquile (talk) 08:58, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Neurochemical research
Hi! I have been doing some reading on the neurochemistry of bipolar disorder. There was an interesting chapter in this book The Bipolar Brain: Integrating Neuroimaging and Genetics that proposed decreased N-acetyl aspartate levels (chapter 5) as markers for mitochondrial dysfunction and suggests that insufficient energy supply from mitochondria may lead to "neuronal malfunction", to put it broadly. I haven't seen much about this on the Bipolar page and I'm wondering if anyone would be interested in working on building this subject/section together. Kazamzam (talk) 17:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Unorphan "Epigenetics of bipolar disorder" page
Since I have a new account, I can't edit this page. I think that, to unorphanize the Epigenetics of bipolar disorder page, it might be added to the Causes>Environmental section. Conspersaita (talk) 13:49, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2022
change stabolizers to stabilizers Pug gold (talk) 12:52, 17 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Done.--Megaman en m (talk) 16:03, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: English 102
— Assignment last updated by Guevarab1 (talk) 19:12, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Cost: Issues with presentation and organization of Society & Culture Section
At this moment in time this is the maximum amount of time I can put into this issue, but biased information should never be presented without at least comment. I / OG poster will not be able to effect these changes immediately.

the Cost section of this article Bipolar Disorder (marked as a "good" article overall, though this should probably be rated as "fair") is not only stated first before any other aspects of society and culture concerning bipolar disorder (rather a cynical and might I say verging on eugenist establishing of the worth and value of bipolar people – especially in relation to their status as disabled), but it also fails to list any costs incurred by bipolar people themselves, the intensely disabling effect of an underfunded healthcare structure, lack of access and enforcement to ADA protections (especially within the workforce), higher rates and risks for police, intimate partner and institutional violence & abuse, the costs associated with discrimination generally, comorbid and concurrent health issues (eg: having bipolar disorder makes taking care of yourself as a diabetic additionally challenging for a wide variety of reasons). In fact this subsection is intensely slim on any actual information about the cost of bipolar disorder (even if it were to serve as merely an introduction to the topic). Lastly, the immediately following subsection is Advocacy...surely even were this Cost-first ordering maintained (inadvisable) it is intellectually dishonest to not discuss the issues which lead to the need for advocacy, many of which have to do with...cost, and cost as a reflection on the general treatment of bipolar and disabled people in society and culture. This subsection should be moved to the bottom of the section of society and culture and marked as biased, under-researched and incomplete, or removed for revision and expansion.

In summary, the presentation of disabled people primarily as a burden and secondarily as people within society via the organization of the Society and Culture section is discriminatory in its framing. The subsection regarding the cost of bipolar disorder within society itself is grossly underdeveloped, biased and promotes discriminatory thinking towards disabled people. The section should be moved to the bottom of the section and marked as biased, marked as incomplete/lacking research & information, or removed altogether. 47.184.125.109 (talk) 12:23, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2023
the Cost section of this article Bipolar Disorder (marked as a "good" article overall, though this should probably be rated as "fair") is not only stated first before any other aspects of society and culture concerning bipolar disorder (rather a cynical and might I say verging on eugenist establishing of the worth and value of bipolar people – especially in relation to their status as disabled), but it also fails to list any costs incurred by bipolar people themselves, the intensely disabling effect of an underfunded healthcare structure, lack of access and enforcement to ADA protections (especially within the workforce), higher rates and risks for police, intimate partner and institutional violence & abuse, the costs associated with discrimination generally, comorbid and concurrent health issues (eg: having bipolar disorder makes taking care of yourself as a diabetic additionally challenging for a wide variety of reasons). In fact this subsection is intensely slim on any actual information about the cost of bipolar disorder (even if it were to serve as merely an introduction to the topic). Lastly, the immediately following subsection is Advocacy...surely even were this Cost-first ordering maintained (inadvisable) it is intellectually dishonest to not discuss the issues which lead to the need for advocacy, many of which have to do with...cost, and cost as a reflection on the general treatment of bipolar and disabled people in society and culture. This subsection should be moved to the bottom of the section of society and culture and marked as biased, under-researched and incomplete, or removed for revision and expansion.

In summary, the presentation of disabled people primarily as a burden and secondarily as people within society via the organization of the Society and Culture section is discriminatory in its framing. The subsection regarding the cost of bipolar disorder within society itself is grossly underdeveloped, biased and promotes discriminatory thinking towards disabled people. The section should be moved to the bottom of the section and marked as biased, marked as incomplete/lacking research & information, or removed altogether.

PS: At this moment in time this is the maximum amount of time I can put into this issue, but biased information should never be presented without at least comment. I / OG poster will not be able to effect these changes immediately. 47.184.125.109 (talk) 12:26, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Callme mirela &#127809; 12:59, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26th June 2023
In the “Society and culture” section the bipolar 1 disorder costs is not backed up by the source (148). Cloutier et al. 2018 calculates the “total economic burden” of bipolar one rather than what the US 'spends', distinguishing between direct and indirect healthcare costs. The US only spent $46.9 billion on direct healthcare costs in 2015 not $202.1 billion.

There is a similar issue with the section on the United Kingdom – source 186 - McCrone et al. 2008 records the total cost to the UK from bipolar as £5.2 billion in 2007 although only £1.6 billion of this is from direct healthcare costs.

The section should be updated to reflect the division between the lower direct healthcare spending and the separate estimated indirect economic cost to society. The suggested changes are below. The United States spent $46.9 billion on healthcare costs for bipolar 1 disorder (excluding subtypes) with a further estimated economic loss of $155.2 billion from lowered productivity and related substance use disorders in 2015.[148] One analysis estimated that the United Kingdom spent £1.6 billion on direct healthcare for bipolar disorder in 2007 with a further £3.6 billion loss from lowered productivity.[186] 131.111.185.76 (talk) 22:39, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Possible sources for usage here
 TheTechnician27  (Talk page)  13:52, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01334-4
 * https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-020-00946-6

Autism Comorbidity
Link to National Autistic Society Remote123457 (talk) 03:05, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

We need a "Bipolar Light" page here?
This is a scholarly discussion of bipolar disorder.

I've no doubt it is perfect.

--->>> We need a page that gets to the basics for the masses, such as I am.

I had to go elsewhere to find this information, much to my discappointment. Pcmacd (talk) 01:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)