Talk:Bird's eye chili

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Incorrect Synonym
The Thai bird chili (prik nok) is not the same as prik ki nu. Prik ki nu is more sharply tapered, usually smaller, and significantly hotter than the bird chili. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.172.136.229 (talk) 06:19, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Also there is a problem with the translation of Prik ki nu: Prik ki nu translates to rat shit chili. Prik means chili; ki is the Thai slang for feces, our work for turd, crap, poop, shit, etc.; nu is rat, not mouse. From a descriptive standpoint Prik ki nu looks like rat turds, not mouse turds. So why not call a spade a spade. Prik ki nu translates to rat shit chili.

Nu means rat or mouse in the Thai language; there are not two separate words for these animals. Also, whilst ki can be translated as shit, and perhaps should be in this case, that is not a literal translation by any means. Ki is used in many compound nouns - with the meaning of waste matter / matter produced as a by product - such as ki pheung. Pheung is Thai for bee and ki pheung means beeswax. My point is, in your eagerness to call a spade a spade, there's no need to vulgarise the name of this chili - it doesn't translate directly into English like that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.183.206.241 (talk) 10:10, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

EDIT: This information is just trying too hard. Nuu is certainly both a rat and a mouse and these peppers here in Thailand most certainly not thought to be rat shit chilli. The author is correct, kee is slang for excrement but in this case the excrement is poop so why not call a spade a spade? The name is indeed mouse shit chilli. There are many kinds of body kee such as kee hu (ear excretion or ta hu, "sleepers"). Yet, when people refer to kee by itself - its poop! Sorry bro.

Country of origin
"country of origin"? Aren't all peppers originally from the western hemisphere? [unsigned comment]

It seems reasonable to me that when discussing cultivated forms of plants, the country where the cultivated form first arose qualifies as "country of origin." Floozybackloves (talk) 04:29, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Nonsense?
''The non-pungent, tapered pepper is larger and hangs down, being only a coincidental homonym because of its country of origin, Thailand. The origin of this pepper is considered to be from South America.'''

Can anyone tell me which pepper this paragraph is referring to, in what way it is a homonym, and how it can originate from two different places? -- Scott ei&#960;  04:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the user was trying to make a bad pun. "Tie" as in a necktie, which is tapered and hangs down, versus "Thai" the country that most uses birdseyes. 24.250.252.220 00:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Chilli sort out
At some point there needs to be a systematic sort out of the various varieties of chilli - by analogy with the Wine Project the main Capsicum frutescens article would have the taxobox and botany as part of the Plants Project, but the individual varieties would just be considered part of the Food Project, and focus on the culinary aspects. FlagSteward 11:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I happen to agree with this big time. Because for one, associating the Thai oriental with a Guam and/or Saipanese boonie has to account for the exceptional height difference between the plants. Guam boonies routinely grow taller than 3 feet than whereas these dinky Thai ornamentals tend to be no taller than 18 inches high. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.17.101.199 (talk) 04:01, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Indonesian reference
This chili is very popular in Indonesia, and I had taken some steps to include reference about Indonesia in this article. Specifically, the mention about Indonesian proverb and the Indonesian name of the chili. Xathria 10:51, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I think you overdid it. This is more like an article about Indonesain/Malaysian chili now. For you information, there's such proverb in Thai too. It's เล็กพริกขี้หนู. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.227.12.31 (talk) 04:32, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

This is really overdone and it really sounds like mainly an Indonesian/Malaysian article. Can someone please fix it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.154.241 (talk) 01:44, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Neutrality of topic title
I think a better title for this article or another parent article that should be created would be "bird's eye chili" or as suggested above merged and cleaned up under a heading of capsicum frutescens although that has its own problems since there are those who question the independent classification of capsicum frutescens from capsicum annuum. It would be more geographically neutral. As can be seen from the comments and contributions, the bird's eye chili pepper is of interest to many people of different nationalities and referring to it as Thai pepper is weighting it towards a Thai point of view.

The original article contributor was probably Thai and may have wanted to write about the chilies he/she was familiar with from a uniquely Thai perspective. I can appreciate that. If so, I suggest all material about foreign perspectives or a general nature including redirects should be transferred to the proposed general bird's eye chili article and the uniquely Thai perspectives retained in this article under this heading. Lambanog (talk) 02:38, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

The siling labuyo has its own distinct history from other bird's eye chilies and there are a number of factors that are hard to reconcile with other varieties necessitating a separate article. For example there are many varieties of bird's eye chili coming in different shapes and sizes. Native siling labuyo are hotter relative to other bird's eye chilies. Without the distinction one might believe any bird's eye chili is as hot as the siling labuyo. This has many implications. "Thai pepper" has not been recognized as the hottest pepper in the world at any time as far as I know. Siling labuyo has. Studies have been done regarding the siling labuyo in particular and its effectiveness for medicinal uses and an insecticide. Can it be conclusively shown that the same effectiveness is seen with other bird's eye chilies? None of the articles cited referring to those properties talk about "Thai pepper". Literally translated siling labuyo means "wild chili". Those described under "Thai pepper" seem like domesticated varieties. Siling labuyo seem to show greater variation in appearance.

As if all that wasn't enough there is disagreement among chili experts if capsicum frutescens the species siling labuyo and Thai peppers supposedly belong to actually deserves its own independent classification or if it is really just capsicum annuum. Considering the lack of consensus even on that matter, siling labuyo should have its own page. Note also that the "Thai pepper" page is a mess. The talk page is full of criticisms, one of the most glaring is the one comparing the size of different plants supposedly accurately described as "Thai pepper". Lambanog (talk) 07:51, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Attempting to reconstruct the history here, it seems that it was "siling labuyo" that was merged with "Thai pepper", and that "Bird's eye chili" has never been separate. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:48, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Removal of Afd-mergeto
I don't see any reason to remove that template, that is a notification that there is an urgency to merge this article to Thai pepper. Why is that removal?-- JL 09  q? c|undefined 12:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Reverse Merge
Considering the number of inconsistencies in this article, I propose a reverse merge or at least support for me to recreate the previously independent siling labuyo article and someone else can recreate the Thai pepper article if they wish. Please indicate support or opposition to this proposal below. — Lambanog (talk) 18:36, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Move?
Why was this renamed? I could see "Bird's Eye Chili", but capitalizing it halfway makes no sense at all. Jpatokal (talk) 10:56, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

The 1 picture
is clearly no C. frutescens but a C. annuum ( look at the calyx) and thus not the mentionet variety( But it seems that it is another of the several Thai varieties). Are you consent with it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrontosaurusLove (talk • contribs) 14:15, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Can't we have articles based on Cultivars?
I don't really understand the obsession in wikipedia to only have articles based on species, especially when many still disagree on whether this plant belongs to this species or not, etc. Can't we just have articles based on cultivars, not species? Cultivars rightfully deserve their respective articles, especially when like Thai chili is very central to the whole Thai cuisine, for example. This is so inane... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.195.196 (talk) 11:18, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(flora) This guideline page even talks about the case when there is no one-to-one correspondence between species and food products too. Why argue about whether different chilies are of the same species or not. They have distinct characteristics in culinary use. Just separate them into different articles. sigh... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.195.196 (talk) 11:25, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Not the same
I have been living in Thailand for many years. I can confirm that in the local "definition" that prik kee noo and bird's eye chilies are definitely NOT the same. Thai markets regularly have bird's eye chilies for sale all year, they vary a bit in size and shape but are generally smooth and conical, being rounded on the end. Prik kee noo have a unique appearance (tiny, tapered, and not smooth but bumpy), are sporadically available, less plentiful when available and demand a significantly higher price than other chilies. The scent of fresh prik kee noo chilies is very distinctive, they're much more aromatic than all other chilies in the markets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.172.22.51 (talk) 03:55, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Scoville rating
This article is internally inconsistent on the subject of the Scoville rating of the chili. Doesn't anyone have a reputable source for what the rating is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.165.173.222 (talk) 19:52, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

This page seems to be very mixed up
"Taxonomically, it has long been thought that the bird's eye chili belonged to Capsicum frutescens L.,[1][2] but that species proved to be undefinable,[3] and the bird's eye chili is now considered to belong to Capsicum chinense.[4]" Another book by the same authors cited makes no such statement. It says that 'Thai chile' is a C. annuum cultivar and 'siling labuyo' is a C. frutescens cultivar. I'd like to undo the earlier merger of Thai chili and siling labuyo with this page. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:46, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for catching that. I was under the impression that bird's eye chili actually referred to what we know as siling labuyo. The latter has a much longer cultivation history in Southeast Asia given that the Philippines is the site of the first introduced species from the Americas through the regular Spanish galleon trade from Mexico (some of which still retain their Nahuatl names). I naturally thought it highly inaccurate for it to be labelled a "Thai" chili. But if they're actually different cultivars/species, perhaps a disambiguation page might help? Siling labuyo is still regularly called "bird's eye" in English in a large number of sources.-- O BSIDIAN  †  S OUL  06:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting. The book referred to above doesn't say anything about 'Bird's eye', only "Thai" and 'siling labuyo', and some comments about "bird peppers", particularly a quote that after a few generations the finest selected varieties will revert to a "bird pepper". Yes, perhaps this page could be a disambiguation about the various wild forms. Bird pepper currently redirects to a C. annuum var. glabriusculum cultivar, and African birdseye is C. frutescens. However, I've been frustrated in searching for more detailed references, since just about everyone dismisses peppers as too hard to distinguish from one another, and that book isn't big enough to cover them all. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:31, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Contradicts article Capsicum annuum var. glabriusculum
The article for Capsicum annuum var. glabriusculum references these peppers as having 30,000-50,000 scovilles, whilst this article claims 50,000 to 100,000. They appear to be in direct contradiction. 70.171.30.4 (talk) 13:36, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that seems to be a common problem with inadequate citations and with people measuring one representative of a particular species or cultivar and stating the result as it if applied to all plants of the cultivar grown in different parts of the world. I'd like to see that information uniformly removed from all pages, but it is something that people want to know, so we have the sad situation that people are being misled. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:58, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

doubt about picture
picture showing bird's eye is not says kanthari mulagu Malayalam: കാന്താരി മുളക് in kerala,india.

Rawit
Rawit redirects here, but the text does not refer the word even once and the picture certainly doesn't look like any chili sold to me as "rawit". In fact, all bird's eye chilis (as well as jalapenos) look rounder than the ones sold to me, which looked like the stereotypical "thai peppers" and had the heat of about half of a habanero (pepper to pepper). Yes, the store may have labelled them wrong, but they didn't write this article. 84.250.167.86 (talk) 09:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)