Talk:Bird migration/Archive 1

Early notes
My addition just now of a section on migration of birds in Australasia is a little unbalanced in the sense (a) that it should be a relatively minor footnote to a longer article, and (b) in that I haven't covered seabirds at all (and they are big-league migrators) and barely mentioned the wading birds that do the long haul to the Arctic Circle and back every year; and (c) that I haven't tried to say anything about S Africa or S America (lacking the expertise). I'll try to remember to do something about (b) at some stage. Hopefully someone else can address (a) and (c). Tannin 12:50 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC)


 * I agree that the article is incomplete, especially for the seabirds and waders, but having kept mentioning migration, I felt the article needed starting. I also need to mention the reverse migration of Great and Sooty shearwaters.


 * From my limited experience of Africa, apart from the wintering Palaearctic migrants, movement tends to be shorter distance and in response to the wet/dry seasons. However, I certainly wouldn't claim any great expertise. I guess S America is much the same, but that is a guess. jimfbleak 16:28 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC)

To satisfy my own curiosity, I'd be grateful for the source (or any refence, for:


 * Short distance passerine migrants have two evolutionary origins. Those which have long distance migrants in the same family, like the Chiffchaff, are species of southern hemisphere origins which have progressively shortened their return migration so that they stay in the northern hemisphere.


 * Those species which have no long distance migratory relative, like the waxwings, are effectively moving in response to winter weather, rather than enhanced breeding opportunities.

Thank you. Andy Mabbett 18:53, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * I'm sure you've seen by now the response on the other mailing list, but for the beneefit of others it's the Dec 2003 British Birds. Jim

Navigation
I feel while this article has some excellent information about different forms of bird migration, it is sorely lacking information concerning (at least speculated) navigational techniques. Rmrfstar 15:48, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Feel free to add an appropriate section jimfbleak 07:03, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I found some recent research on polarized light patterns of sunset and sunrise helping birds navigate. See http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060810213154.htm "Light Guides Flight of Migratory Birds" on ScienceDaily's Bird News at http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/plants_animals/birds/. There were also research articles on the longest bird migration ever recorded (discovered a few days ago about the sooty shearwater bird) at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060808232221.htm. I tried a rough draft to add this to the bird migration article, but I am just not that great a writer, so I left the writing alone. Michele123 14:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC) Maybe someone would like to give it a go. Or, if it is too much detail for the article, maybe add the link to ScienceDaily's bird news?

category
is pointless - wrongly capped, and potentially thousands of members, of which only 5 are actually linked. Unhelpful also because although long-distance is clearly intended, many birds are short-distance, nomadic or altitudinal migrants jimfbleak 07:03, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I rolled-back Long Point, to avoid becoming a list. jimfbleak 05:08, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I had added Long Point to the article. I thought it was worthy of mention, but I support Jimfbleak's rollback for the reason he stated (avoid it expanding into a list). --thirty-seven 05:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Animal migration
Why does animal migration redirect here? Birds aren't the only animals that migrate. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 17:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

New UoA study on bird migration
Hi! I found an interesting 2007-03-01 piece on short-distance bird migration. I have no serious background in biology so didn't want to peddle with the article directly.

(unprocessed) A universal assumption about bird migration has been that short-distance migration is an evolutionary stepping stone to long-distance migration. The team's work contradicts that idea by showing that short-distance migrants are inherently different from their globe-trotting cousins: the pressure to migrate comes from seasonal food scarcity.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-03/uoa-wdb030107.php

Thanks, Rdavout 18:39, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Where to go with this
Please list your thoughts on what is needed and how to deal with this article. It has been suggested that it get a complete overhaul and I agree with this.

This article needs some better focus and less of a Northern Hemisphere emphasis. In fact, it would probably be beneficial to srtip out sections like Australasia and other regional sections, and lay it out something like this...
 * Types of migration
 * Short Distance (includes Altitudinal)
 * Long Distance
 * Irregular versus regular (include irruptions)
 * Partial migration
 * Dispersal migration


 * Physiology and control
 * Timing
 * Changes in physiology (weight gain, organ size reduction)
 * Navigation and learning
 * Vagrancy - when it goes wrong


 * Evolution
 * origins
 * biogeographical trends (northern versus southern hemisphere
 * migratory ecology
 * flyways


 * Humans
 * Study techniques
 * Cultural impact
 * Human threats to migrants
 * conservation

Thoughts? Sabine's Sunbird  talk  22:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good. I hope there is access to the many works of Peter Berthold and Yoram Yom-Tov. Shyamal 01:19, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Types of migration (from )

(* Removal migration - not applicable ?) How is this for the types of migration subsections ? Shyamal 08:19, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Seasonal migration
 * Latitudinal migration
 * Reproductive migration
 * Nomadic migration
 * Complete migration
 * Partial migration
 * Irruptive migration


 * Looking great. Bendž|Ť 08:47, 17 June 2007 (UTC)



Defining migration

 * I think the first thing is a good definition, especially with regard to non-regular movements such as irruptions and nomadism, which I have understood to be separate from 'true' migration. No reason however why such movements should not be included under a fairly broad definition. Maias 02:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I was assuming that would be covered in the intro. I don't know if there is a 'true migration' in a technical sense, btw. The fact that species can be migratory over part of their range, for example, suggests that there is a lot of grey in the middle. Sabine's Sunbird   talk  03:55, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There is certainly a lot of grey in the middle between strict (obligatory) seasonal migration of, for example, the Curlew Sandpiper, and the movements associated with irregular rainfall events in arid areas, as for example with the Banded Stilt. It may be best to take a broad approach and include all large-scale population movement strategies.  I would just like to avoid arguments about what is and is not 'migration' in the course of improving the article. Maias 06:27, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I've made a few changes to subsume the bird families into the main migration section, and to give a bit more emphasis to the southern hemisphere and the tropics. jimfbleak 12:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

How do migrating birds "lockup" their undercarriage? ie their legs? Do birds get RSI from the repetitive wing motion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.87.180 (talk) 01:12, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Australia
I'm beginning to have a problem with this, as the only geographical entity, rather than climactic zone in the article. It seems seems to me that Australia is no different from southern Africa or, to a lesser extent, southern South America. Some birds, like many waders and swallows are fully or partially seasonally migratory, some are sedentary, and many move depending on the rains.

My inclination is to lose this section, but put some of the species examples in the relevant sections to keep a balance. However, it's possible that residents of Oz may wish to argue for the uniqueness of their continent (home of the pie floater after all) jimfbleak 15:37, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The article needs some serious pruning, and I agree this section can go. However Austrlai is a great example of partial migration, per this example in the bird article Partial migration can form a large percentage of the migration behaviour of birds in some regions; in Australia found that 44% of non-passerine birds studied were partially migratory and 32% of passerines were.(Chan K (2001) "Partial migration in Australian landbirds: a review" Emu 101 (4): 281-292) And will get mentioned in that section once its written. I'll have more time to devote to this article once Bird's peer review is over. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  22:03, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, I've done a bit of meddling, added the bat as a second and interesting specialist migrant catcher, incorporated Oz into the rest of the southern hemisphere and added the partial migrant bit. It would be interesting to know how the figures compare with the northern continents, a lot of European and NAm species are partial migrants in continental terms. The references need standardising, but I'm useless at that. Jimfbleak 07:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

migratory bird
The page migratory bird redirects here. This article seems (from a very quick skim) to be a rather abstract discussion of why and how birds migrate, which is all well and good but not what someone coming here from Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 will likely be expecting (to wit, a discussion of how that treaty and other international conventions define the term). Perhaps I've missed that discussion, in which case the redirect ought to be a section link rather than the top of the article. 121a0012 06:16, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Feel free to disambiguate the link from the treaty website, but the forwarding page migratory bird should be kept the same. It's true a legal status section is lacking. Feel free to write one. Maybe you should discuss this on the treaty talk page. Bendž|Ť 10:17, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Magpies
I just have one question do utah magpies migrate?
 * As a rule magpies and other corvids don't migrate in the same way as ducks and songbirds but they may form larger flocks and move around locally. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  02:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Biological dispersal
The role of migratory birds in dispersing seeds around the world. An important topic for inclusion. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 07:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Sometimes whole plants, too. Take the example of Aldrovanda_vesiculosa, for instance. --Cynops3 (talk) 16:31, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Added a bit. In the process, found that another article (The Effect of Climate Change on Bird Migration) could be merged into a new section here. Shyamal (talk) 03:58, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Do anyone know what this bird is

 * It's a heron or egret. It would be easier to narrow down with a location. And a better place to ask is WP:BIRD. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  08:23, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks like a White-faced Heron. Was this taken near Sydney?  (I'm trying to guess based on your description in the photo's file.)  MeegsC | Talk 15:18, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your replies to this. This photo was taken in Balmain on Sydney Harbour but I have also seen this type of bird on the Hawkesbury River near the Brooklyn Bridge _&#124;&#124;_Adam (talk) 02:32, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm confident it's a White-faced Heron. MeegsC | Talk 09:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Improvements please
"Many large birds fly in a V-formation and individual energy savings have been estimated in the range 12–20." Twelve to twenty what? Joules? Does the reader have to play a guessing game?

"Some Bar-tailed Godwits have the longest non-stop flight of any migrant, flying 11,000 km to their New Zealand non-breeding areas". And where do they start, may I ask?

How many days do the long-distance migrations take, and how fast do the birds fly? 78.151.135.45 (talk) 21:12, 30 October 2008 (UTC)