Talk:Black-figure pottery

Comments
Removed Andokides since his entry says that he is a Red-Figure, not black. If this is not correct, please fix entry before replacing this link. PerlKnitter 19:34, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

My half-assed efforts
These are notes I made for an expanded development section. It's been on my desktop for months in doc format, I know I'll never finish it now. I cribbed most of it from Boardman ABFV, if anyone else wants to improve it and incorporate it into the article, then have at it. Twospoonfuls 12:57, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Development
Limiting dates and definitions. Beazleyan methods and its critics. “Development” as a process of assigning upper limits for tropes and styles of vases.

Origins at Corinth
The black-figure style was an innovation of Corinthian invention from the begining of the 7th century. Protocorinthian Early Middle Late. Animal friezes, myths, eastern influence, minaturist, dies out by 550.

Attic fabric
Athens adopts c. 630. Transitional figure Painter of Berlin A34 (also known as the Woman Painter), protoattic, lays white over black instead of outline. Nessos Painter 1st whose work survives in sufficient quantity to reconstruct his artistic personality NAMA 1002, protocorinthian filling, large vases, novel belly amphora. Gorgon Painter c. 600 to 580, first full frieze on name vase, his workshop introduced Deianira lekythos. Komast Group KX KY the “leeser artist” Broadman p.18, smaller vases. first satyrs? Sophilos first signed vases, 3 as painter, a dinos Kleitias francois vase narrative frieze now the dominant mode, animal frieze relegated to subordinate position, introduces column crater and lebes gamikos.

Siana Cups
Named after the village in Rhodes where a cache of such cups were first found c 575 to 555 double decker overlap. The C Painter (C for Corinthianizing) is the earliest know painter of Siana cups and most prolific with 155 cups and fragments attributed to him. His output was large enough to distinguish a number of distinct phases in his career with a marked progression in the size of his pieces over the period of his working life. His middle period witnesses the creation of novel scenes of heroic gathering and mythological pursuit yet the depiction of sport dominates his later work. He was also the master of a Siana cup workshop for some 30 years, of which at least 10 fellow artisans can be identified. The Heidelberg Painter was equally prolific if less accomplished than the C Painter, he is notable less for his draughtsmanship than his influence on the early work of the Amasis Painter and for his invention of the iconography of Dionysos and Herakles.

Tyrrhenian Amphorae
Almost 200 surviving, colour used freely, myth and genre, on neck lotus, palmette cross or interlace, one or two animal friezes below shoulder. Castellani Painter is most characteristic, many signatures survive, few accomplished artists attracted to form, an exception being one by Lydos (Florence, Mus. Archeol., 70995). c 565 to 550 an ovoid neck amphora destined for export trade to italy marks the beginning of Athenian dominance of the international trade (what if anything did they contain?) to caere and vulci notably earliest erotic scenes white skin for women firmly established now les commonly red for men Herakles and Amazonomachy motifs.

Mature black-figure style in Athens
Kleitias, Francois vase, eclipse of the animal frieze, builds on tradition of the dinos painters, figure frieze riund vase, 270 figures, 121 inscriptions, only one animal frieze, myth predominates. Lydos Amasis Painter E Group Elbows Out Nikosthenes Affecter Exekias the depiction of feeling?

Little Masters
Gordion cups, lip cups, band cups, droop cups, hermogenean skyphoi

Bilingualists
Andokides Painter Psiax (as on his signed pieces, two alabastra: Karlsruhe, Bad. Landesmus., 242 (B120), and Odessa, A. Mus.) Antimenes Painter who is called after a kalos name on a hydria in Leiden (Rijksmus. Oudhd., PC 63) he largest single group of good Black-figure pots that may be dated to the late 6th century bc comes from the workshop of the leagros group. These painters were contemporaries of the Red-figure artists known as the Pioneer group because of their innovative exploration of the new technique, and vases by painters of the Leagros group often reflect the boldness and spirit of their colleagues. Beazley (1956, pp. 354–9) identified several painters within the group, notably Painter A, Painter S and the painters of the Antiope group. The Leagros group preferred to decorate large vessels, in particular hydriai, amphorae (including neck amphorae and Panathenaics) and column kraters, but they also produced some splendid large lekythoi. Most of their subjects are drawn from myth, with episodes from the Trojan cycle and the exploits of Herakles being clear favourites. Often these are scenes of chilling violence, as on three hydriai depicting respectively Achilles Hurling the Severed Head of Troilos at his Would-be Rescuers (London, BM, B 326), Herakles Stoning Kyknos to Death (Munich, Staatl. Antikensamml., 1709) and Neoptolemos Killing Priam (U. Würzburg, Wagner-Mus., 311; see fig. 102). A good artist on the periphery of this group is the acheloos painter; two other contemporaries are the Nikoxenos Painter and his more able pupil, the Eucharides Painter. Both of the latter also worked in Red-figure, and their latest vases belong to the early years of the 5th century bc.

Latest Practitioners
Edinburgh Painter Class of Athens 581

Panathenaics
Panathenaic amphorae contained the olive oil given as prizes in the Panathenaic games in Athens. The earliest surviving example is the Burgon amphora dating from the 560s which already exhibits the canonical shape and decoration that was to persist with minor variations well into the Roman era. They continued to be decorated in the black figure manner throughout the period of the games, indeed long after the red figure style and commercial painted pottery had fallen into disuse. Of all Attic vases Panathenaics are the only precisely datable ones thanks to the practice between 375/4 and 312/11 of inscribing that year’s archon’s name on the pot which can be checked against the surviving list of magistrates. These vases were commissions of the state and may have been awarded to the leading painters and potter of Kerimiakos, since we have surviving amphorae from several prominent artists. We have examples from Lydos, Exekias, the Kleophrades Painter, and possibly Euphronios and the Berlin Painter.

Other fabrics
Euboian, Caeretan, Chalcidian, East Greek and Islands, Boiotian, Lakonian.

Translation
--Remotelysensed (talk) 12:49, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

By the way, the literature references in my translation are quite inappropriate, being in most cases references to German publications, (or even German translations of English sources). There must be reliable English sources, which should be cited here instead -- I merely translated the German article and do not have access to English source material, nor the competence to judge which sources are reliable. Can any lover of Greek vases out there tackle that project? I hope so, since the German references are just about useless for English readers. --Remotelysensed (talk) 10:58, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Please vet my edit
In the first caption, does gloss in "a thick layer of gloss" refer to the opaque white and red fired glazes, or to a layer of transparent glaze, as I've perhaps mistakenly emended it?--Wetman (talk) 00:37, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Corinth and black figure
It's universally stated that black figure begins in Corinth, but perhaps we can be more specific. The fundamental article here is, I think, A Well of the Black-Figured Period at Corinth, by Mary Thorne Campbell, 1938, Hesperia, which gives a terminus ante quem for B-F of c.650 BC, and Attic Black Figure from Corinth: I, by Ann Blair Brownlee 1987, also Hesperia gives the earliest example as olpe C-32-235 (if I've read that right). It'll take me a day or two to check these unless someone beats me to it! Also I believe the relationship between attic and corinthian B-F is not well understood, see The Dionysios Painter and the "Corinthio-Attic" Problem, something could be said on that. Twospoonfuls (ειπέ)

Too long?
Indeed this is a long article! But isn't that apt to be the case with survey articles? As wonderful as links are, for a general overview it is often frustrating to be forced to go to all kinds of other locations; one loses the forest for the trees.

It seems to me that more critical than some absolute length (within reason, of course) is having the article well structured, so viewers can easily understand from a glance at the table of contents what all belongs to some topic, and the interrelationships, and make an informed decision about which particular part of it they want to read, or not. --Remotelysensed (talk) 15:50, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Image descriptions lack references to a particular style
Most of the images on the page seem to lack any reference, besides their position within the page, to any particular style. Anyone with limited vision and/or screen real estate might find it hard to connect images with a particular heading. For example, to make sure "Black-figure, white-background lekythos by the Diosphos Painter showing Achilles in a chariot dragging the corpse of Hector behind him, ca. 490 BC, found in Eretria, now in the Louvre, Paris" is an example of Attic style, I had to check the page source from "Edit page".

Would it be a bad idea to include the style a picture is representative of into the description like this: "An example of Attic style: Black-figure, white-background lekythos by the Diosphos Painter showing Achilles in a chariot dragging the corpse of Hector behind him, ca. 490 BC, found in Eretria, now in the Louvre, Paris" or in some other, more suitable, fashion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sjlain (talk • contribs) 11:22, 8 October 2014 (UTC)