Talk:Black Cat (Marvel Comics)

LGBT comic book characters
I've removed the categorization of Category:LGBT comic book characters. I'm not sure which of the incarnations of the Black Cat is supposed to be LGBT, and it's not clearly stated, or cited, in the article. Feel free to add this back if and when such is provided. Thanks MosheZadka 04:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

It is very clearly stated under her "MC2" incarnation. --68.46.22.195


 * Also, in the mainstream continuity of The Evil that Men Do #1, she stated, "It's been so long since I've had a boyfriend … or a girlfriend". --DrBat 23:05, 20 October 2005 (UTC)


 * "There has been no implication that Felicity has a problem with the lesbian aspect, but instead it appears that she blames her mother for the divorce." This is the only mention of her being lesbian or bisexual in the entire page at the moment.  Someone please fix this.  (Also, it should be bisexual, not lesbian.) Ken Arromdee 15:53, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I added her back to Category:Fictional bisexuals based on the above. (An anonymous editor recently removed her.) --GentlemanGhost 00:29, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Black Cat is missing from the LGBT superheroes (and supervillains, arguably) list. I'm not sure how to add her on to there - I've never really dealt with portals. Also, her sexuality can be referenced to both the MC2 universe, and is also briefly referenced in Spider-Man and the Black Cat #1.

Book by Jim Butcher
Announced on Jim Butcher's website: The book is apparently due July 2006. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 15:39, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Death?
I thought Black Cat died in the Spider-Man comic books, am i mistaken? Meddling 02:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)Meddling


 * If the character's still running around in current publications, I think it's pretty safe to assume she's not dead. Clearly.
 * --CovertSomnophore 23:28, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I just bought Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man #74 and 75. She's shot and stabbed at the beginning of 75, (not 72, which was the issue there before.) The rest of the issue concerns her hospitalization and Peter's concern.
 * --CovertSomnophore 01:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * ok... she IS still alive. She was in the last issue of Sensational SM and is a recurring character there now &mdash; ChocolateRoses talk


 * The Black Cat has never died and has been a recurring character in Spider-Man's titles ever since she was introduced. She's currently working with the Heroes For Hire in their own series that takes places during the on-going Civil War. No one should be under the impression she is dead. Period. CovertSomnophore 00:00, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Note
It's occured to me her attitude has always left open the implication Felicia's not above experimenting.

What I'd like removed is other character's names from "Affiliations." That should be for team associations, not personal associations. If we were to list every character she interacted with... it's absurd. The same goes for previous affiliations. I think it's misleading.

When did Black Cat associate with Nightcrawler? I think whomever added that is confused by the cover of Evil Men Do #5 (which has the two together.) However, it should be noted the two never even meet during the story. I sincerely hope that's not where that information came from. I'm just going to take that out. --CovertSomnophore 23:28, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Claws
Explain to me why Claws is worth putting in the noteable stories section, as opposed to any other issue Black Cat appeared in. I believe the section should be devoted to important moments in Black Cat's history. Teaming up with Wolverine doesn't quite fit the bill, in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.12.192.74 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 19 August 2006

Narcissist?
I haven't seen Felicia display any excessive admiration for herself or arrogance in her abilities. I don't think she belongs in that category. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.246.4.38 (talk • contribs) 00:35, 5 September 2006

Relationship with Spider-Man
The previous edit claimed Black-Cat's tone when using "Spider" was "usually seductive." I must point out tone is completely unknown when reading the panels of a comic. From the ones I've collected, "Spider" is Felicia's pet-name for Spidey, but not purely a flirtatious one.

If the semi-recent Spider-Man/Black Cat: The Evil Men Do miniseries is to be taken canonically, then the two share a genuine attraction towards each other, but Peter's foremost feelings are with Mary Jane, and thus refrains from flirting much with Felicia. In the much more recent Claws, Spider-Man was literally chasing Felicia around trying to kiss her, very out-of-character. Even more so was Felicia brushing him off, something she'd never done before. This leaves the nature of their current relationship in question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.12.192.74 (talk • contribs) 03:23, 15 September 2006


 * I would reason it more that the writer of CLAWS was simply ignoring established characterization in order to tell the story he wanted to tell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OldSkoolGeek (talk • contribs) 22:10, 7 February 2007

powers change

 * Feeling a wall of secrets growing between them, Spider-Man broke up with Felicia. He soon realized something was amiss with his own luck and enlisted the aid of Doctor Strange to remove the "hex" on him. But doing so altered the hex's source and changed the Black Cat's powers in the process. She soon found a heightened strength, agility, balance, vision, and retractable claws.

I believe she didn't had her powers changed, but lost; sometime after, she got the mentioned powers, but as far as I can remember, they were "artificial" powers, i.e., the retractable claws were something she wear, not her own claws, the vision was some sort of special contact lenses, the balance was made out of high-tech earrings that improved her balance, and I do not remember about her last enhancements in strenght or agility, but in a different ocasion these were also enhanced artificially, financed by King Pin, if I recall, but that was somewhat early before she got all these gadjets, which she got from that alien disguised in a human aged man, or perhaps from the guy who created all those spider-killer robots for J. Jameson.--Extremophile 00:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Take it from someone who's read the comics
 * Black Cat originally had no powers. circa Amazing #194
 * She wanted powers to help Peter, so she got her latent mutant gene activated artificially. circa Spectacular #89
 * When Doctor Strange fixed Peter's bad luck, Felicia lost her powers and was given natural superpowers instead. circa Spectacular #110
 * She eventually lost those, so she went to the Tinkerer who gave her a powered costume (grappel lines, claws, balancing ear-rings, etc..) circa Amazing #270
 * CovertSomnophore 01:05, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Catwoman
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Wolfman created Felicia Hardy/Black Cat as an homage to Catwoman. Wolfman wanted to create a character based on the Tex Avery cartoon character "Bad Luck Blackie" and made the Black Cat female solely due to the fact that she would be a foil for Spider-woman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.132.109.188 (talk • contribs) 18:44, 11 April 2007


 * You are correct. However, we should mention the fact that Catwoman had similar aspects of Black Cat in previous media. It would explain why people even thought Black Cat was an homage to begin with. However, some people here seem to deny even this, which is disingenuous.--Mike Castle (talk) 13:30, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

DarthKurgan (talk) 11:43, 6 July 2013 (UTC)It is interesting that the article asserts the point that Felicia had the skin-tight black leather suit first in the comics, but if one were to count every incarnation of Catwoman that had existed beforehand than it's interesting to note that Selina had had a similar sort of costume in the 60's Adam West show, before Black Cat was created. (And given how popular that show was in its day, I doubt it would be hard for Wolfman to have not heard of/seen it.) I'm wondering how that's never come up.

Well, Wolfman was hardly going to say that he directly ripped off the character from Marvel's greatest publishing rivals, was he? The claim in the article that "Felicia Hardy's signature low-cut black costume, cat burglar profession, and steady relationship to Spider-Man predate Selina Kyle's similar depiction in comics by almost a decade" is so ridiculous that it's laughable. Just do a Google search for "Golden Age Catwoman" and see the images. It's true that in her very first appearance (in Batman #1, 1940) she did not wear her feline costume, but by Batman #3 (also 1940) she was already using it. The cat burglar profession and the romantic relationship with Batman were also present from the Golden Age. Quite frankly, this part of the article reads more like a fan rationalization than encyclopedic content. 193.127.200.35 (talk) 12:53, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

WOW-- Did a search on "Golden Age Catwoman" and shockingly, nothing remotely similar came up like Black Cat. Instead there are numerous pics of a woman in a purple dress with a whip. So unless you can provide a pic of Catwoman in her modern, black clad, low cut image where she's climbing buildings and romantically INVOLVED (not simply lusting for) Batman BEFORE Black Cat's appearance in comics, PLEASE ADD THE LINKS. But since you can't... your comments are just fanboy wishful thinking — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.97.244.53 (talk) 22:25, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Black Cat (Harvey Comics)
What about the 1946 Harvey Comics series Black Cat? Here's the Black Cat page at comics.org. 4.232.105.126 07:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The O.C
On the O.C when Seth shows Summer little Miss Vixen she is positioned exactly like Black Cat is in the current picture and she looks almost exactly like her... Isn't that enough for a mention, even if it is extremely obscure —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarkAvenger280 (talk • contribs) 04:13, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Catwoman's sister Felcia
The Black Cat is often mistaken as an homage to DC’s Catwoman, as her forename, Felicia, was shared by Catwoman's sister in Brave and the Bold#176. The Earth-1 Catwoman did indeed have a sister called Felicia.

http://members.tripod.com/braveandboldreview/swampthing.htm#176

Enda80Enda80 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 16:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Catwoman's sister did not appear in comics until years after Black Cat had been created. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.91.165.60 (talk) 00:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

"notably few costumed love interests"?
"Notably" few? What, is Spider-Man unique among super heroes for having only a few costumed love interests? I don't propose that this be changed though -- unintentionally funny phrasings are one of Wikipedia's greatest strengths, imo. 76.84.186.70 (talk) 07:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Black cat kiss.jpg
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Black Cat vs Catwoman
Aside from the cat theme, there is nothing connecting the Black Cat to Catwoman. Almost every single female foil in comics has made sexual overtures to the story protagonist.

Selina Kyle's sister "Felicia" did not appear in the DC universe until The Brave and The Bold #176 - which was released in 1981. This was years after Black Cat first appeared.

And while Julie Newmar did wear a black outfit as Catwoman in the Batman television show, she was not remotely a cat burglar - she used henchman to rob museums and banks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.91.165.60 (talk) 04:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Look, we can go around in circles debating this. However, some people here seem to have an agenda or bias. Yes, Black Cat's depiction came first. But Catwoman was protrayed with similar aspects long before Frank Miller's Batman reboot.

FACT: Catwoman was a cat burglar in her early appearances by the literal definition. Look up Merriam-Webster's entry for "cat burglar" and read her first three comic book appearances.

FACT: Catwoman wore a black catsuit in the 1966 Batman television series, but was not a cat burglar.

FACT: In both her early comic book appearances and the television series, she was a love interest for Batman, granted unrequited.

Again, this doesn't change the fact that Black Cat combined all these things first and took it further. But it should be mentioned that Catwoman did have aspects of Black Cat in previous media.--Mike Castle (talk) 13:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * But it's debatable whether these "facts" are more appropriate in the Catwoman entry as they have more to do with Catwoman than with Black Cat herself. As it stands, stating Black Cat is not an homage and her incarnation came first is more than enough.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.165.183.14 (talk) 19:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually it isn't. The statement that "her incarnation came first" comes off slightly disingenuous unless it is briefly explained why and with cited references, which is what has been done. The very small amount of information given about Catwoman is relevent to the paragraph (which is small) and is meant to both show why and explain the misconception without speculation.--Mike Castle (talk) 00:24, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Catwoman (again)
By the bits:
 * 1) There needs to be a cited, solid, references to the for the Catwoman bits.
 * 2) The Wolfman cite (just above the 2 problem paragraphs and used to justify their inclusion) is clear that the DC character wasn't an inspiration/influence.
 * 3) Of "signature costume, cat burglar profession, and her steady relationship" only "steady" loosely fits the "predate by almost a decade". The same aspects — signature cat-themed costume, operating as a cat burglar, and a flirtatious attitude towards Batman — all existed for Catwoman prior to Miller and prior to 1981.
 * 4) The reference to the 1960s Batman television show and movie is a real stretch in an article that isn't about that character. Let a lone an article about a character, by the cite, which wasn't even influenced by Catwoman.
 * 5) The DCvMK is beyond a stretch since it's making the assumption "leather and cleavage... gotta relate to Black Cat."

As a whole the 2 paragraphs read as fan spec, at best. At worst it's an attempt to present a drawn conclusion (WP:OR) which doesn't belong.

- J Greb (talk) 02:15, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

So you need me to cite the author, title, publicsher, date where it says: "...Batman didn't occur until 1987 with Frank Miller's classic Batman: Year One."

Marv Wolfman, the CREATOR, referenced a common misconception, one prevalent enough to be addressed by WIZARD MAGAZINE. The following paragraphs clear up the misconception.

The fanboy issue stems from your personal issues with the FACTS:

The Black Cat, a black suited cat burglar (–noun: a burglar who breaks into buildings by climbing through upstairs windows, across roofs, etc., esp. with great stealth and agility) appeared in Marvel Comics in 1978. Her cleavage bearing costume, a tool she has used since she chose the costume, is referenced throughout her appearance, most notably the recent Spider-Man Unlimited 14, Spider-man Black Cat: the Evil That Men Do, etc.

The original Catwoman was NOT a cat burglar by the definition cited: She used large cats to commit brazen crime. She typically wore a purple dress and used a whip. She had an island with circus animals at one point. Her black suit and MO was altered by Frank Miller in 1987 in Batman Year One. It had not yet appeared in the comics prior. (Please cite where it had prior)

The flirtatious aspect is irrelevant as almost every single female villain followed the same characteristic throughout both DC and Marvel. Aside from that, while I completely understand Catwoman showed favor to bats, Spider-man actually dated the Black Cat years before the relationship was even explored in Batman.

Take out the Batman TV show quip if you like. It merely describes the possible misconception. But in terms of comic lore, you are misinformed and should cite how this posted information is incorrect.

There is no supposition here: The recent game model of Catwoman bears an even greater resemblance to the Black Cat costume as it sports an aspect never before shown and a signature aspect of the character Black Cat.


 * The long and the short: If the reason for these two, now three, paragraphs is to refute the "Black Cat is an homage to Catwoman", they're over kill. The Wolfman quote that is in the article is enough. If needs be, ad the one or two sentences about Wizard doing the run down along with an expanded quote of Wolfman from that article, if such exists. This is, like the CBR interview, a good secondary source.
 * Everything else reads as "In fact, from 1979 Catwoman has become, if anything, an homage to Black Cat." That is presenting a point of view with out citing secondary sources. Using The Dark Knight Returns and the upcoming DCUvsMK is making the agument from primary sources. Unless there is some reliable secondary source that explicity lays that idea out, the three paragraphs should go. - J Greb (talk) 21:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

There is no assumption that Catwoman copied Black Cat and it's never stated in the entry.

The facts are laid out to show why there is confusion about the similarities in characters and clear up a common misconception. Sorry if you think it's too long but your subjective opionion on overkill for a factual discussion is not reason enough to change entry.

Please read up on Batman, Catwoman, and the Black Cat before assuming this is fanboy rage. You are misinformed about Catwoman's inital conception prior to BATMAN: YEAR ONE (not the Dark Knight Returns). It was a significant moment that relaunched the Catwoman character and documented in the primary source of the comic itself.

If you're not familiar with this comic, you cannot refute it as a source. The proof is on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.142.243.122 (talk) 23:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Everyone, we can go around in circles debating this. However, some people here seem to have an agenda or bias. Yes, Black Cat's depiction came first. But Catwoman was protrayed with similar aspects long before Frank Miller's Batman reboot.


 * FACT: Catwoman was a cat burglar in her early appearances by the literal definition. Look up Merriam-Webster's entry for "cat burglar" and read her first three comic book appearances.


 * Her first appearance she swiped a necklace at a full party - hardly a cat burglar crime by any definition.


 * FACT: Catwoman wore a black catsuit in the 1966 Batman television series, but was not a cat burglar.


 * FACT: The catsuite originated in Alfred Hitchcock's  To Catch a Thief and was already popular on the show  The Avengers so citing Catwoman on TV is irrelevant.


 * FACT: In both her early comic book appearances and the television series, she was a love interest for Batman, granted unrequited.


 * FACT: She tried to seduce him just like every single female villian in popular fiction. Not really relevant.


 * Again, this doesn't change the fact that Black Cat combined all these things first and took it further. Nor does it change the fact that Marv Wolfman has clearly stated that his character was not an homage to Catwoman. But, if you're going to mention that Black Cat's protrayal predated the modern protrayal of Catwoman, it should be mentioned that Catwoman did have aspects of Black Cat in previous media, which is why it was asked of Marv Wolfman in the first place.--Mike Castle (talk) 13:24, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think your changes to the entry are fair and hope there isn't too much changes. But the article should (and did) clarify there was an erroneous belief of Black Cat as an homage.  Neither character's creation was related and the info you provided could just have easily been attirbuted to any other fictional female foil.


 * The very small amount of information I gave about Catwoman is relevent to the paragraph (which is small) and is meant to both show why the belief is erroneous and explain the misconception without speculation.--Mike Castle (talk) 00:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

THE CAT
Catwoman first appeared as THE CAT in Batman #1. She was not a catburglar just a confused woman WITH NO MASK and a purple dress who fancied Batman. In the following issues she was shown to be a woman with amnesia. The article does not say Black Cat copied Catwoman or Catwoman copied Black Cat. It simply says that the misconception is silly based on the timeline of creations.


 * According to Merriam-Webster:


 * A cat burglar is A burglar who is adept at entering and leaving the burglarized place without attracting attention. That is exactly what Catwoman or "the Cat" was in her very early appearances. I'm sorry, but this is a fact. It doesn't change the fact that Black Cat's famous depiction (which is very similar to Catwoman's final modern depiction) came first.--Mike Castle (talk) 13:13, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Creators
The article is confusing. It is clear that Marv Wolfman conceived the idea of the Black Cat, and it is stated that Dave Cockrum designed "the costume and appearance". So what was Keith Pollard's involvement, and does it really merit inclusion here? MultipleTom (talk) 18:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

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As of the latest ASM, she has the bad luck powers again
She has the bad luck powers again in ASM 606. No explanation is given, though I assume it's more Brand New Day we don't need to explain things anymore nonsense. The article should be updated to include this, as it currently lists the bad luck power as a former power.24.190.34.219 (talk) 13:21, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Film rumours
Deleted the poorly spelt and rumour laden 'Film' section, as it listed no sources. Perhaps best left alone until there some concrete sources emerge online? Malenkym (talk) 22:04, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. I've removed these countless times.  Until we have a source of confirmed casting, there shouldn't be anything about Spidey 4 in this article.  Planewalker Dave (talk) 01:25, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * And right now the page is semi-protected for 3 days. Hopefully the annons will pop in here at the talk page to explain where they're getting the information. - J Greb (talk) 23:49, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Is she really bisexual?
I don't think so. Yes it was referenced once in the Evil that Men Do issue #1. "I haven't had a boyfriend in a long time, or a girlfriend for that matter." But isn't "girlfriend" a slang term modern women use to refer to there friends? It doesn't have to be something sexual or Hell even something platonic like in Brokeback Mountain. Since it is open to interpretation I thought I should post my opions on the matter here and see what ya'll think. Hollister4Mayor (talk) 04:43, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

RfC: Black Cat vs. Catwoman misrepresentation
Editors making revisions based on fandom and not facts. Black Cat, a woman wearing a low cut, black body suit who used cables to climb buildings and steal (cat burglaries) first appeared on July, 1979 and immediately started a mutual romantic relationship (dating) with Spider-man. Up to that 1979 date, Catwoman had appeared in comics wearing purple dress, committed bank robberies, had a CatCar and pet lions. Editor continues to suggest Black Cat was based on Catwoman (calling creator,Wolfman, a liar?) when Catwoman did not adopt a similar attire until 1987 (Frank Miller Year One). Simply compare how Black Cat and Catwoman were seen in comics in 1979 and how they are represented now. Please comment


 * Comment While the comparison is natural, possibly charged with energy overflowing from the DC vs Marvel fight, I think its completely inappropriate to comment in this article on any connection between the two characters without substantial evidence. And as was mentioned in the original RFC, the characters show little to no resemblance outside of sharing the profession of being cat burglars. Black Cat first appearance here vs Catwoman first appearance here: It seems to me that the argument is baseless as it would also assume that all cat burglar themed characters post Catwoman would then be considered rip-off characters. Side note: I do find it kind of interesting that the cover of Detective Comics 122 calls Catwoman's crime spree "The Black Cat Crimes!" Pistongrinder (talk) 17:29, 23 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Agreed- the only reason the connection between characters was included in the entry was due to the creator, Marv Wolfman, publicly addressing the much brought up issue (and asked directly in WIZARD magazine) and clarifying the origins of the character was for Spiderwoman and based on a Tex Avery cartoon. Black Cat has been consistent in costume and character throughout her existence in the MCU.  Catwoman however has gone from her first appearance: to now this:  Regardless, I think it is logical that any alterations to the entry to suggest Black Cat's creation is any way related to Catwoman is disingenuous.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.97.245.214 (talk) 17:51, 23 March 2015 (UTC)


 * That supplied image of the Catowman figure makes it look like her hip is busted and jetting from her side! Based on the supplied info from the WIZARD article, wow that takes me back, and the easily found visual evidence, covers a lone, there is no footing to stand on and the issue appears to be nothing more than DC vs Marvel fodder. I vote that all associations between the characters be omitted as being baseless and unhelpful. Pistongrinder (talk) 15:49, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

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Requested move 14 August 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 16:36, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Black Cat (comics) → Black Cat (Marvel Comics) – To help differentiate from Black Cat (Harvey Comics). Kailash29792 (talk)  07:16, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Support move. Fairly obvious disambiguation here, as the current title is not sufficient.  ONR  (talk)  08:45, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Support current name is an incomplete disambiguation. --Gonnym (talk) 13:20, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Support In line with the comic project naming conventions. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:44, 15 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

MJ and Black Cat being friends — source wanted
There's note that there's a source wanted for MJ and Black Cat having made amends and even becoming friends. While it's unlikely to be the first issue to see them portrayed as such, a clear example is seen in _Mary Jane & Black Cat - Beyond_ #1 (2022). SQB (talk) 12:38, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

who is black cat?
she acts? 216.10.216.191 (talk) 21:43, 25 July 2023 (UTC)