Talk:Black Catholicism

Title
Hey ! Thanks for putting together a great article here! When I accepted the article, I went with African-American Catholicism because it focuses primarily on the American Black Catholic experience and I didn't want it to be confused with other movements of Black Catholics outside of the US. Feel free to disagree with me as to why Black Catholicism is a better fit. I'm happy to discuss it further here on the talk page. Bkissin (talk) 13:38, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I totally understand the concern, so I can see why you went with an alternate title. "Black" generally does have a global use case. That said, references to African-Americans in the context of Catholicism use the term "Black Catholicism" far more often than not. Almost exclusively. The results for a Google search on "African-American Catholicism"—whether in the main, news, videos, and books section—make it pretty clear. Moreover, the landmark text on the topic (from the late Fr. Cyprian Davis, OSB)—which is itself the first books result on Google—is titled "The History of Black Catholics in the United States". So I do think the title should be "Black Catholicism". natemup (talk) 13:55, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Template:Main
The template says, "This template is used after the heading of the summary, to link to the subtopic article that has been summarized" (emphasis mine). Not to link to a dab page. Furthermore, see WP:INTDABLINK. Onel 5969  TT me 15:38, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Capitalization of "Black"
While I'm aware that the MOS:CAPS generally says not to capitalize the word, it seems that in this case, common usage would dictate that "Black Catholic" should be capitalized when the words are used together as an ethnic Catholic grouping.

I'm not sure how to seek a consensus on this, though,. natemup (talk) 03:44, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You're aware of MOS:CAPS so good. Don't capitalize it. That's the MOS. Elizium23 (talk) 03:49, 30 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The MOS states that "words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources" should be capitalized, hence my appeal to common usage. The evidence seems to be overwhelming in this case, from articles to books to dissertations. natemup (talk) 03:54, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I find your reasoning disingenuous when you are already well aware of Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters which is a recent binding consensus to the contrary. Elizium23 (talk) 03:58, 30 January 2021 (UTC)


 * That is concerning the word "Black" alone, whereas this is a unique, two-word religious identifier that has its own usage—that is, again, clear and present on the internet. natemup (talk) 04:05, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Focus on post-1950s syncretism
According to the article, there have been Black people who are Catholic in the area of what is now the United States since the 17th century. Yet the article introduction only focuses on a radical fringe who, since the 1950s have tried to mix Catholicism with Evangelical Protestant themes, jazz music (!) and socialist politics. The most entrenched and long standing Black Catholic communities (namely, Louisiana) are pretty much ignored in the introduction. No mention of the Louisiana Creole people. Torchist (talk) 18:34, 2 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Since the 16th century, actually.
 * Most of the history section is not focused on the post-Vatican II area, though that period does receive a large treatment due to the fact that it is the main factor in what "Black Catholicism" means today, liturgically and otherwise. The introduction was not created to cover all topics or any one region, and instead is a general overview, which of course has to feature the modern movement and identity.
 * Also, New Orleans receives major treatment throughout the article and many Creoles are mentioned (though they were not the only Catholics in New Orleans, especially since half or more of the Black people there were slaves and not technically Creoles or free people of color). natemup (talk) 20:55, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

African-American focus
Good to remember that the article concerns African Americans specifically, not Black people generally. Recent edits added a bunch of info near the top of the intro that had nothing to do with Catholicism or African Americans. natemup (talk) 19:04, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

African and Caribbean descended African Americans are counted as Black in the US census. Given that most Black Americans descended from pre-Civil War slavery (outside of Louisiana and, to a lesser extent, Maryland) are Protestant while those descended from recent immigration tend to have greater percentages of Catholics, it seems irresponsible to leave out pertinent information. 2603:7080:140:F600:7C76:BA13:72E8:3BAB (talk) 18:20, 26 February 2022 (UTC)


 * There is no reason to put tertiary information at the top of the article, or in the intro at all. natemup (talk) 12:32, 22 June 2022 (UTC)