Talk:Black Doom

Minor villains merger
Guys, there is no reason for this. Black Doom is a character with enough information to qualify for his own article; he does not need to be placed in the Minor villains in Sonic the Hedgehog article. User:Denjo

Erazor has more backstory then Black doom and he doesn't have his own page. Why shouldn't Black Doom be any different? He should at least be merged with the Black Arms article. Delsait 22:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Fine, if you have to merge him with something, do Black Arms; not Minor villains. User:Denjo

History
Who ever actually edited the History section, turst me, that suker wasted his time. It says History which means its the history of Black Doom, but it was edited like a story, if i have time i will do some more editing. It began ok, then in the middle of it, it starts to talk about what happened, which shouldn't have anything to do with what happened only his history
 * &gt;x&lt;ino 09:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

CAN WE PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE have a picture of devil doom? Please! from dalek

Yea we can...but we don't have the picture
 * &gt;x&lt;ino 02:58, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

No, there's going to be atrocious stuff like "omg dvl düm's blz r hge lol" written all over the article. Please, don't add any noob fodder here! --Luigifan 01:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

That's absurd. If anything the other pictures would be vandalized first. We should have a picture of Devil Doom. --SwiftTheBaron

Have you seen that huge... bulb thing... beneath Devil Doom? That's what I'm talking about. It looks like a massive scrotum!!!! Honestly, I don't see how the trolls would be able to resist. --Luigifan 12:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

devil doom
we neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed a pic of devil doom!!!!!!!!! do you know wher i can get one?

I dunno, check some Sonic related site. Fansite or you can even take a snapshot from your tv: with digital Camera or Mobile phone (cellphone)
 * &gt;x&lt;ino 13:08, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

yahoo images

Stop copying Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! From Dalek

Black Doom's power
Hi. I'm not a registered user here, sorry. However, I was the guy who added the Putrid Corpse, Bloody Skeleton, Shao Kahn, and additional Demons data to the Mortal Kombat species page (by the way, the stuff I added about Demons is still there; I talk about the ones from Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks). Moving along, I know I'm not a registered user but I think I have a useful critique about how you spoke of Black Doom's power. You said he was more powerful than Perfect Chaos, Biolizard/Final Hazard, Metal Overlord, and Dark Oak. While I won't argue Perfect Chaos as his true power has never been seen (the fight he had with Super Sonic shouldn't be counted as Super Sonic's good powers were more powerful than his anger) and Biolizard is obviously weaker than Black Doom, or even Dark Oak (who I think he's even with should he not assume his Devil Doom form) I will argue your Metal Overlord statement. Consider this: it took Super Sonic, Super Knuckles, and Super Tails working together to barely be able to stand up to Metal Overlord. But with Devil Doom, though he was powerful, only Super Shadow (who is even with Super Sonic) was needed to defeat him. Not only did it take more power to defeat Metal Overlord, but one might even say the only reason that Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles beat Metal Overlord was because of the bond they share which could have amplified the power of the Chaos Emeralds (like in Sonic Adventure's battle with Perfect Chaos) or that they work surprisingly well as a team. Shadow on the other hand, was alone and had no real motivations that would apply to the Chaos Emeralds (he was just determined to beat him; he had didn't have any emotional boost from Maria or any other positive feelings the Emeralds usually amplify when used).

Sorry to go a bit off topic in the last sentence or two but I thought it neccessary to emphasize my point. Chances are, you'll ignore this and not acknowledge anything I said but I figured it would be better to talk to you this way rather than adding to another page like I did with the Mortal Kombat species page. If you do decide to read this, then I would be honored, especially if you agreed or commented on what I said. Speaking of commenting on things I've said, you can refer to me as Ninja Bot if the need ever arises.

Once again, sorry about not being a registered user.

I'm not a registered user too, but in the battle with Metal Overlord, Tails and Knuckles wasn't in their super forms... SuperSonic gave them a some sort of an energetic shield, maybe... (Sorry for my bad english).

Shadow did have positive feelings from Maria; she showed up in the transmission from Gerald, which helped to remind Shadow of the promise he made to her. It was Shadow's determination to protect humanity, as Maria wanted him to do, that gave him his determination to destroy Black Doom. --Luigifan 01:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Knuckles and Tails may have been in their super forms. In Sonic the Hedgehog(2006), Super Sonic uses his own power to transform Shadow and Silver into their own respective super forms. Granted, their fur had changed colour instead of having an energy orb around them, though they were transformed in the same way as Tails and Knuckles were.Michael Mad 22:21, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Please Stop!
Listen we don't know what became of Black Doom so please stop saying he is probably dead or is assumed dead sure he might be dead but there is simply no proof.

The information should say that Black Doom's fate is unknown but is most likely dead~ Unknown Dragon

devil doom v.s. metal overlord: round two

 * If you are looking for this discussion that you have made into a "forum topic" of sorts. It's been removed. This is not a forum! Please stop putting fan fiction or non article-related, or "Who is more stronger?" discussion here. Try some forum. And please do not post it here! UnDeRsCoRe 00:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

About the merger suggestion
I think it helps if you keep the Black Doom and Black Arms articles seperate. There is too much information on Black Doom to put on the already long Black Arms article, and since GUN doesn't get a rewrite to take out all the different weapons it uses, I don't like the idea of the Black Arms article having to be shortened. Oubliette 15:10, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

i agree. Black Doom needs his own article El cid the hero 22:18, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Seperate Makes sense. --DavidHOzAu 03:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. TMNT Donatello 07:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree; Black Doom has enough information to qualify for his own article, so there is no need to combine him with Minor villains in Sonic the Hedgehog either. User:Denjo

Comparison to Teen Titans
I am sick and tired of people comparing Shadow the Hedgehog to Teen Titans. Who cares how similar Black Doom is to Trigon? IT'S JUST A COINCIDENCE. GET OVER IT. Just about everything in the game that seems to be a reference to TV is purely coincidental. The Billy Hatcher references in the game are intentional. I'm going to remove the Trivia section for lack of real information. Shadoman 23:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Energy sources
Let's face it, there's no good reason for the Black Arms to have gone 2,000 years without food!!!! Clearly, Black Doom is more than smart enough not to let his spawn (or himself) starve, so you'd think that the Black Arms would have raided other planets while waiting to invade Earth. Speaking of raids, the Black Arms might be the "enemies" that had attacked the Seedrians eight years prior to the Metarex conflict in Sonic X. The reason that it's the Black Arms is that they're the primary canonical hostile extraterrestrials for the Sonic series; the Xorda from the Archie continuity had a personal vendetta against Earth, so they don't count (even though they did constantly threaten the Bem.) Plus, the Black Arms are predatory, so they'd actually have a good reason to attack the Seedrian planet; I don't see how the Xorda could benefit from pulverizing a bunch of innocent plants. So, do you think Black Doom could be considered an enemy of the Metarex, and the enemy of the Seedrians in general? I'd like to have your opinion on this! --Luigifan 01:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC) *clears throat*--Luigifan 21:32, 14 October 2006 (UTC) I wanted a discussion, not a reversion!!!!!

Well, then, why don't you just add a debunkment in the discussion itself? That would be preferable to just deleting it.
 * You can't post theories that contribute nothing to the article. So, since you seem persistent on posting your "theory", I'll say that your information is legit, but you're only guessing, something Wikipedia is not for. So, sorry, we don't just use talk pages for "discussions" here, it's not a forum. 15:13, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm posting original research here so that the members of Wikipedia can "vote" on it. If several Wikipedians like it, then it can be posted on the main article as a legitimate theory.  One the other hand, if it's met with widespread disapproval, then it's only my opinion and it has no place on an encyclopedic aricle.  In other words, UnDeRsCoRe, your opinion alone won't make me change my mind.  If the Wikipedia community at large dislikes it, then I'll back down.  But if it's approved, I don't see why it shouldn't be accepted into the main article.  --Luigifan 11:20, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This isn't original research. Original research is when you write something without any reference. So, the information could be true, just never confirmed. This is a theory. And just because people vote, it dosen't mean that possibly wrong theories can go into an article. UnDeRsCoRe 21:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, maybe I should explain myself. When I said that it should be put in the article if the community agreed with it, I forgot to mention that it would have to be labeled as mere speculation.  There's a big difference between a theory and a fact, after all.  --Luigifan 01:08, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, never mind, I did mention that it would be posted as a legitimate theory. The keyword here is theory.  That doesn't mean that it's factual, just that it's a theory shared by most of the community.  Of course, like I said, if people disagree with it, then I'll back down without any fuss.  --Luigifan 01:16, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I hate to sound pushy, but speculation and rumours are not usually allowed on Wikipedia even if everyone thinks it's obvious. For example let's say Sega never confirmed that Sonic was a hedgehog, and the games were just called "Sonic". Even if it is obvious that Sonic is a hedgehog and everyone thinks so, we can't just say that he is, even if we state it's speculatory. So, sorry, if I could I'd put your theory in the article as it shows what some fans "think". But this is an encyclopedia. And encyclopedias aren't usually filled with speculation or rumours. You've got to remember that. UnDeRsCoRe 01:46, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm going to have to refute that. I'm quite sure that many other pages have theories on them, if only for the sake of maintaining a neutral point of view.  Examples would be Miles "Tails" Prower, Cosmo (Sonic the Hedgehog),  Cream the Rabbit, and Doctor Eggman.  Of course, this particular rumor would be better suited for Alien Species in Sonic the Hedgehog, and it is also there, but nobody's responded to it.  Anyways, I don't think it would do any harm to include a popular rumor.  --Luigifan 20:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The rumours and theories are only there because no one seemed to care enough to remove it, or as you said, was for NPOV. But if you're theory is proved to be quite popular, it would deserve to be up. UnDeRsCoRe 23:46, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Geez, I'd really like to have some opinions other than UnDeRsCoRe's on this theory of mine. Any volunteers? --Luigifan 20:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, then, I guess I've said all I have to say. I guess you'll just have to wait and see what others think. But, you may have to wait a while, Black Doom isn't exactly a really popular or that watched article. UnDeRsCoRe 23:46, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

This can also be found at the talk page for Alien Species in Sonic the Hedgehog, and, maybe, to expose it to more users, I may place it on Tails's page, as Tails does have a, um, "connection" with Cosmo, and his page seems to be rather popular.

I can understand the theory, but I agree that that doesn't mean it should be included. You're basically saying "We know of two alien races in Sonic Team-connected works, one peaceful and one hostile. Because the peaceful race's enemy is never named, we can just assume it's the Black Arms". If that's revealed to be the case in the apparently forthcoming final season of Sonic X, then sure, go ahead and add it. But right now, it's just a theory with very little basis to go on. It's useless fluff like those people who feel the need to add "Some fans think that..." speculation onto new character pages for the forthcoming game.--HellCat86 09:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, like I said, aside from the possibilities of the Black Arms (or ancestors of the humans on Molly's planet,) the identity of the enemy of the Seedrians is left completely ambiguous. I put this theory out there because I felt that it was the best way to explain just what could have attacked Cosmo's homeworld and motivated Lucas to become Dark Oak.  --Luigifan 22:28, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Um, hello? Where is everybody?!?  --Luigifan 12:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I really doubt that the Black Arms had anything to do with the Seedrians. Both species live in separate continuities. Therefore, unless the Black Arms appear in season 4 of Sonic X, your theory pretty much has no validity. DeathGodDragon EDGE 22:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the place for original research, no matter how accurate or well thought out. This includes theories, postulates, unpublished rumours and speculation, interviews, drawing conclusions not cited in sources, speculation based on primary sources, or drawing a unique conclusion from a single or multiple sources when such a conclusion was not brought up within them. All such material should be removed. If you want to discuss theories, take it to a message board or chat room- keep it out of this encyclopedia. --Wafulz 02:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Aargh... Well, I made a promise, and I intend to keep it. I'll leave the theory here, in case anybody else wants to chime in, but, in the meantime, could you guys direct me to a good message board where I could take this? --Luigifan 12:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

You could always go to Gamespot. ChromeWulf ZX 15:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Clean up?
I think this article could do with a little clean up, it doesn't read as neatly as it perhaps should. Near the end especially when it's discussing the events of Last Story. It's also a frequent target for "Black Doom is teh baddest of the bAd!!" type edits.--HellCat86 16:02, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I have to agree that Black Doom is the "baddest of the bad" (though I couldn't care less for the leetspeak.) Going over the other villains in the SegaSonic continuity, we find that Black Doom is probably the most evil, and his scheme was the most, to put it lightly, disturbing.  Doctor Eggman has become a bit soft over the years; Sega itself has said so!  Chaos wasn't evil, just really pissed off.  The Biolizard wasn't a villain in itself, it was just obeying its programming, and Gerald wasn't evil, he'd just gone insane after Maria died.  Metal Sonic was clearly evil, but he really only wanted domination, and his plan, while clever, wasn't nearly as insidious as Black Doom's.  Black Doom, on the other hand, tried to make a huge buffet out of the human race (and, actually, all life on Earth would have fallen victim to that nerve gas if Shadow had failed to destroy the Black Comet.)  No, I haven't mentioned the Metarex, or any of the villains from the Archie comic book series, or from Sonic the Comic; I don't have any intention to, because they're simply too numerous.  But, in my opinion, Black Doom is clearly the nastiest villain from the game continuity.  --Luigifan 16:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * May I ask how 'Shadow the Hedgehog' isn't a reference? It's Black Doom's only appearance, thus the only source we have for info on him...--HellCat86 18:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Fatherhood
User:Chao9999 keeps removing a mention of Doom being Shadow's biological father and I keep putting it back. I don't see why it wouldn't belong in the first place.--HellCat86 23:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * He is Shadow's biological father because of his blood, so I agree it should stay. But then again, it all depends on what one preceives a father to be. UnDeRsCoRe 04:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, to me biological father clearly means "father as far as genetics are concerned". It doesn't automatically translate into what most would consider a true father-figure which Doom most certainly wasn't but that doesn't change Shadow's genetic parentage, no matter how much he or certain fans want to. People struggle with that issue in real life and they can't just edit it out.--HellCat86 12:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * True. Black Doom is Shadow's BLOOD father. And just because someone see's Doom as a un fit father figure, dosen't mean he isn't Shadow's true father. UnDeRsCoRe 16:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Just 'cause he was created with BD's blood doesn't mean squat. Just because you were created with some of someones DNA doesn't mean they're your Biological Father. For all you know, Shadow was just a Hedgehog, then Gerald applied his research, along with Black Dooms DNA to make Shadow stable. This "bio dad" stuff was NEVER mentioned. Wouldn't GERALD be more of a father anyway? All Black Doom did is give him some of his blood. If anything, the bio dad thing is fanon. This wasn't even MENTIONED in the game, nor implied. Since all we know is that Shadow was made with Dooms Blood, we can't call him his father yet. Besides, I don't think some BLOOD would just instantly turn into Shadow. There was probably alot of other DNA along with synthetics and whatnot applied. For all you know, Shadow has more HEDGEHOG DNA than Black Arms DNA. We leave it at "he was created with Black Dooms DNA". Simple, effective, non speculative, etc. -Chao9999 20:27, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Black Doom- "Don't you know? You were created from MY blood". I think you're being quite desperate. There is alot of evidence in the game that Black Doom is his biological father, including the above quote. He's not a father in the sense of how we humans reproduce, hence why I wrote it as "father". However, that doesn't change his role. To further add to this, Last Story pretty clearly turns this into a nature vs nurture matter. Does Shadow follow his biological father Black Doom or side with his adoptive father Gerald?--HellCat86 20:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Black Doom also said that Shadow has always held an intense hatred of humans, and that only his solution is good for humanity. He's gotta be right. But seriously, just because he was created FROM his blood, doesn't mean that all he was WAS BD's blood. The "father" thing is still speculatory. We'd need MUCH more evidence than THAT. Also, remember that it was never SPECIFICALLY stated that Shadow wasn't just some hedgehog that was experimented on. He could have had the DNA, synthetics, and research applied to him. The "father" thing doesn't even contribute to the article anyway. -Chao9999 05:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Most people I've discussed this with, including myself, took away from the game the idea that Gerald was having no success in creating life, Black Doom offered a mutual alliance from which they both benefit and provided his genetic material which Gerald used to create Shadow. This is supplemented by the fact we know Gerald studied Echidna culture, hence explaining why he wanted his creation to resemble a certain hedgehog. The idea that Gerald and Black Doom augmented an existing hedgehog just over complicates things. Further, Black Doom speaks in a slightly dated manner so 'my blood' more than likely translates into 'my genetic material'--HellCat86 16:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The echidna culture thing is fanon, and fanon doesn't belong in the article. And it wasn't that he "was having no sucess in creating life" it was that he was "having no sucess in creating the ultimate life". Biolizard seemed pretty alive to me. And even IF he meant "my genetic material" (it doesn't matter), that still doesn't even explain why he NEEDED the blood/genetics. There's a large possibility that there were factors in his DNA that were extracted and then applied to the unfinished Shadow, making him stable. The father thing is speculation, as we don't actually know WHY the blood was needed. -Chao9999 21:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Why do you insist the Echidna thing is fanon? He made Artificial Chaos, based on the 'god' who destroyed the Echidna culture and was powered by the Emeralds. He created a way to harness said power based on the exact shrine on Angel Island. There are countless legends about the Emeralds but I think the games made it clear Gerald focused on the Echidnas. Your problem is you seem to have your own personal canon and damned be anyone who introduces conflicting facts into that view.--HellCat86 13:53, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with HellCat. If he didn't study Echidna culture, then why does Shadow look like Super Sonic? (who was fortold in ancient Echidna culture) Coincidence? I think not. Hell, the stuff about the shrine in the ARK and Artificial Chaos is proof enough. Chao please get your facts straight before you say something dumb. The problem is that Chao, like many people I know, is too stuborn to admit when he is wrong. DeathGodDragon EDGE 06:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Does Anyone...
Have a pic of Devil Doom that we can put in the article? Aguni Dragon-OX 02:47, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, Devil Doom gets his own card in Sonic Rivals, so if we can get a hold of one like in the Metal Sonic article, we can use that. 217.198.150.144 13:18, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

An image would be nice. Someone added one a few weeks ago but it was just slapped in and very washed out so I removed it. I think the problem is it's easy to find that promo art of Black Doom, but not the case for Devil Doom. This just increases my desire for a Sonic concept art book...--HellCat86 13:50, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Like I said before, I'd rather noot have any noob fodder around here. I don't want this page flooded with nonsense like "OMG dvl düm's blz r hüg lol!" --Luigifan 12:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Meh, that's no reason not to have a picture. Vandalism is easily reverted. 217.198.150.144 09:23, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

dead?
what do you think.

I think he bit the bullet, but right now, his status is unknown. DeathGodDragon EDGE 01:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

games have a habit of bring back villans that died with little of no reasion Sailor cuteness 16:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

So true. DeathGodDragon EDGE 18:02, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

And a few main characters that are thought to be dead as well, but they give a reason why (like with Shadow)82.12.89.217 (talk) 09:50, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Guesses
Do any of you think wikipedia pages should have a section for guesses and speculation on subjects canonical sources don't give much info about? The Black Arms VS Seedrians and the like? Other sites have theory pages and they can really help if you want the info to write fanfics as they present some good ideas. I think it would add to the information we can provide and fill in some gaps.--Neon Apocalypse —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.137.121.11 (talk) 13:24, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

no wikipedia isnt a fan form its a Encyclopedia we should try to keep away from theorys and pov sailor cuteness-ready for love 16:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)