Talk:Black Moon Clan

Merges
I've just merged in the 'Planet Nemesis' article, as that template stood for a month without argument. With two articles so short, it seemed sort of self-evident.

So! I think we should also bring in Death Phantom, as per the Villains recommendation at WikiProject Sailor Moon. And I'd like to lump the remaining Clan members into a separate article, the way Dark Kingdom is separate from Shitennou. I don't know what to call it, though. Black Moon Clan members? They're too short to quite be on their own, but too long to quite add to this one, which will hopefully end up with more detail about the Clan, including the Phantom, their various motives, what kind of Monsters they employ, anime/manga differences, etc. Any thoughts? --Masamage 22:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If no one objects, I'm going to bring in Death Phantom tomorrow, September 2nd. I'd like to hear at least one vote as to the "Black Moon Clan members" article before I move forward with that, though. --Masamage 17:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * New idea--why don't we just merge them into this very article? If no one objects, I'll do that tomorrow, September 7th. --Masamage 23:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Aaaaaand done. Yay! The last massive villain merge is complete! :D --Masamage 07:28, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Last Name Question
The source for the "green" and so on.. is there one, because in the manga I can't find a mention of it...if it's a fan term it has to be killed ruthlessly.--Hitsuji Kinno 19:35, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's in the Materials collection. Kurenai no Rubeus, Midori no Esmeraude, Ao no Saphir. --Masamage 00:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It should be noted somewhere though that they weren't used in Manga proper and anime proper though... a lot of things that show up in the materials collection never made it like fairy Diana, so it's worth noting. --Hitsuji Kinno 18:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Romanizations
They are off by a long, long shot. It looks like someone took a guess in the dark with no knowledge of Japanese. >.<;; I'm taking it from the Materials Collection and doing a clean up. (I read Japanese...) Wise Man. should I add that one too?--Hitsuji Kinno 18:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * And the "known simply as" part can be left out, since it's practically the same name. - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 18:28, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Rewording suggestion to explain the English dub then?--Hitsuji Kinno 19:43, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * How about something like this... Prince Diamond (プリンス・デマンド)
 * Result: Prince Diamond (プリンス・デマンド) - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 20:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry but i thought "Prince Demand"'s name was "Prince Diamonde".Joyan 22:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Not according to the katakana, which read "Demando". We're leaving off the O at the end because the Japanese language can't produce an ending D with no vowel afterward, which was probably the intent. --Masamage ♫ 23:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It's been a long time since anyone wrote on this thread, but I do have something to add. I think it's only fair that the English page should use the same names used in the English credits. They can be found on IMDB.com For example, "Prince Demand" is "Prince Diamond"(see: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0128834/?ref_=fn_al_ch_1IMDB.com). I think the English version of the name should be put first, with the name's Japanese origins and French direct translations (see: http://www.genvid.com/diesgaudii/minerals/blackmoon/index.html)described underneath it. That would make it possible to list all of the alternate names and spellings that can be cited without confusing the readers. --SteelEntropy 03:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Manga Coverage
This article is deceptive in that it seems to cover the manga with the pictures, but in actuality, it's about the anime. Plus the incarnations thing about Chaos comes from manga only. --Hitsuji Kinno 18:26, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Esmeraude kanji
For the life of me, I can't find the kanji the Material's Collection uses for midori. The only way I have of obtaining kanji is by looking stuff up in the online J-E dictionary and copy-pasting, but I couldn't find anything that exactly matched the one in the book. Any help? --Masamage 01:04, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Since it's incorrect as it stands now, I'm going to remove it until we find the real kanji. For future use, what we had was 緑のエスメロード and only the first character is wrong. --Masamage 19:29, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

death phantoms insane
i think it should be mention about death phantoms santy in the anime at least (i havnt read the manga so i dont no) when hes wiseman he speaks in third purson for no resion like when no ones around or to black lady whos under his mind control and Saphir only learns about the death phantom because hes talking to him self and his plan to distroy earth in the past as revenge for what happend in the futer is flawed if he blows up the earth he wont be born and if hes born he cant distroy earth its a big time paradox Sailor cuteness 16:51, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In the context of what happened later the whole Doom Phantom saga has problems and little of it had to do with the Doom Phantom being crazy. First, if you exile someone you should keep tabs on what they are doing even if you think their exile is secure; Neo-Queen Serenity never does this.  Second, in both the sub and dub the Black Moon Clan talk about being the decedents of the people exiled to Nemesis making Neo-Queen Serenity a hypocrite as she is punishing people based on what their ancestors did.  Third what the Doom Phantom saga and the Pharaoh 90 saga say about Sailor Pluto are totally incompatible never mind that Pluto does a crappy job (Prince Diamond, Black Lady and Saphire all go back in time 'after' the Sailor Senshi go forward).  I could go on but continuity wise the Sailor Moon anime universe is a total train wreck from the moment Chubi-usa comes back.--BruceGrubb (talk) 19:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Boule Brothers?
Should this page have info on the Boule Brothers (Chiral & Achiral)? They are technically Black Moon Clan members, after all. Paul E Nolan 14:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The short answer: Yes. :) --Masamage 16:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

went they just droids? or where they "real"sailor cuteness-ready for love 14:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * They're just droids in the anime, but they do a lot more in the manga. Yay for The Oracle. --Masamage 17:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Were they actually droids in the animé? (I don't think Esmeraude ever refers to them as such). I just thought they were her minions (kind of like how Crimson Rubeus has the Ayakashi Sisters). Paul E Nolan 00:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen it in Japanese, so I can't say for sure. What I meant more was that they're pretty much monsters-of-the-day. --Masamage 04:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

i think she sayed in the bath to safire that she had two droids on the mission--sailor cuteness-ready for love 12:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe in the dub (I haven't seen it, apart from the first couple of episodes). She doesn't say this in the original version (I re-watched it last night to check whether she referred to to them as droids). Remember how much other stuff the dub changed... Paul E Nolan 20:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I've added a section on them (it's not brilliant, but it'll do for a start) Paul E Nolan 21:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Naming system
What is our basis for using these particular transliterations of the names? I think Rubeus and Esmeraude are pretty clear, but I'm not sure why Sefiiru equals Saphir or Demando equals Demande. Couldn't it be Sephir and Demand? For that matter, are these names references to something other than the gemstones? What are the most common spellings? --Masamage 19:31, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Demand looks more like well Demand than Diamond which is what he is named for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.214.92 (talk • contribs)

Musical Demand
In the musical, Demand fell(looking rather dead) after fighting Death Phantom then talked to Saphir's voice(posiply havng a flash back of when he was with Saphir when they were younger(what they were saying sounded a lot like the scene in the anime(I forgot the episdoe number)) Eternal Sailor Moon said that he and the rest of the Black Moon clan could stay on Earth, Demando refuses and says that he had forgoten the dream and relied on the Black Crystal instead and that he will create true flowers on Nemisis then walked into the Door of Space Time. This happened in both the first Tanjou! Ankoku no Princess Black Lady and it's revision. I'd advise the people who write the Musical information to watch the musical that they are talking about.Yayamaya 10:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * A lot of the Sailor Moon information has accrued over years - for example, that text you have troubles with is from  late May 2005, by a user who has since vanished.  At WP:SM we're trying to cite sources to improve the reliability of the articles.  You can always tag stuff that you think is wrong with a fact tag and explain why. Do you know of any sites that have written synopsises of the musicals? -Malkinann 11:48, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Black Moon
Black Moon says that in mythology that the black Moon was a sign of the apocalypse in Japanese mythology. I think this would be interesting to add... if we could find a source outside of wiki.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 07:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree! That's a pretty clear correlation. Nice find. :)--Masamage ♫ 07:49, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Wiseman and Galaxia
Should we mention Wiseman's interaction with Galaxia here or just keep it all at her page? I'm not sure how much they actully interacted... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.217.34 (talk) 15:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like it's mentioned here already. --Masamage ♫ 19:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Image reduction
This article probably has too many images in it, too. :T Maybe we can reduce down to these:
 * Wiseman
 * Group shot of Rubeus/Esmeraude/Saphir/Demand

We can remove these: ...because the first two are already in use at Ayakashi Sisters and Chibiusa, and the third doesn't even have bodies. You can just say "long pale hair, black crescents, different skin tones" and communicate the same thing.
 * Ayakashi Sisters
 * Black Lady
 * Boule Brothers

That's what I thinks. --Masamage ♫ 01:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Problem, Rubeus Esmeraude Saphir and Demand ever appear together as a group. Saphir doesn't even appear in the anime until the episode after Rubeus is killed. You might be able to get a Shot of Esmeraude Saphir and Demand, and a solo of Rubeus or one of Saphir and Demand and one of Esmeraude and Rubeus.Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 16:51, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Here is the entire Black Moon Clan arranged in a square, including Wiseman, the Boule Brothers, and Veneti/Aquatici. --Masamage ♫ 21:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Dimande/Demand
Just so everyone remains clear on this, the reason for settling on the spelling of "Demand" is that it's totally unknowable exactly how this name was intended to be written. The Japanese transcription is demando, so we've just taken the closest thing to that. --Masamage ♫ 21:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I have proposed merging the Ayakashi Sisters article into this one. If we trimmed out all the excessive plot info from both, they would both be fairly short and heavily dependent on each other, and so would be much better together. For the time being it would be sort of a subsidiary character list--once the full list is up and running we can reevaluate this. --Masamage ♫ 21:09, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been over a week with no responses, particularly no objections. If we go one more week and no one minds, I'll proceed with the merge. --Masamage ♫ 16:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Group image
When we merge these articles, I think we can replace all the images in both with the square area of this drawing that includes every member of the Black Moon Clan: Wiseman, the four siblings, the Ayakashi Sisters, and the four random other people. This way we can pictur everyone and avoid copyright infringement!

So if no one protests, I'll bring that picture in and toss out the overload of other ones at the same time I do the merge. --Masamage ♫ 18:02, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

multpul persnalaty
In anime wiseman seems to have a multpul pursnalaty he openly talks about his "master" death phantom and shapir over herd him and wiseman/death phantom was supised he was there meaning he had no reasion to talk openly about his plans or hide his identy he might think death phantoms someone else —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.6.231.103 (talk) 18:56, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Can you tell us what episode you're talking about? --Masamage ♫ 00:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

the one where shapir dies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.42.248 (talk) 00:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

god in dub??
"In the English version of the anime, he is just called "The Wiseman" and is said to serve the Doom Phantom, a dangerous being who supposedly created the universe and now wishes to destroy the world he created through the Wiseman." I didnt think the dub would imply he is god they removed the scene where the Senshi are on crusfix so why would they make up a religious theme if they removed any that where in it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.29.124 (talk) 12:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

also wisman said in dub that he is the doom phantom "I am the doom phantom and I will vaporise you!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.29.124 (talk) 13:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that sentence says anything about god? I'm not sure what you're getting at. --Masamage ♫ 17:35, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

"who supposedly created the universe" that sounds like the dub made him god because in most religion god made the universe and this quote "is just called "The Wiseman" and is said to serve the Doom Phantom" I was trying to say that Wiseman said point blank in dub that he is the Doom Phantom meaning hes not working for him he is him like in all versions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.29.124 (talk) 23:26, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * "That's right! Soon, the energy of the Dark Crystal will emanate into your world with such massive force; this heap of rock and ice will vanish in an instant!"
 * "All those lives! You won't do it!"
 * "Wanna bet? I am the Doom Phantom, and I'm gonna vaporize you!"
 * RattleMan 20:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

should the article be changed then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.6.222.62 (talk) 23:03, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

he isnt all that u saying he be!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.0.57.2 (talk) 00:05, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

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