Talk:Black Mountain (Milpitas, California)

Name of article
I moved this article to Black Mountain (California) (Diablo Range) because I wanted to write about another Black Mountain, also in Santa Clara County. Unfortunately it turns out that there's another Black Mountain in the Diablo Range, down by San Benito. Anyone have any ideas where the article for the one near Milpitas should go? Maybe just Black Mountain (near Milpitas)? --Trovatore 07:00, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I would usually see people using either Black Mountain (milpitas) or Black Mountain, Milpitas. I'd use the latter. If your writing about the other Black Mount. in the Diablo range how about Black Mountain (NEAR San Benito) Near would be optional. Andrew Northall 07:06, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

As an owner of land North of Arroyo Hondo and East of Calaveras Reservoir I can attest that Marsh Road is a public Santa Clara County Road and is open to the public (non - vehicular traffic)all the way to the Alameda County boarder. Please contact Santa Clara County for confirmation.

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was no consensus -- Aervanath (talk) 16:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Black Mountain (Diablo Range, California) → Black Mountain (Diablo Range, Santa Clara County) — to resolve issues with ambiguously named articles, and in compliance with standard naming conventions per wp:place and wp:name mos:dab — emerson7 23:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.



Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

.....this ongoing conversation was copied from: here:

for several reasons the naming you have selected are incorrect and inappropriate and are not compliant with WP:PLACE. --emerson7 15:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What are these reasons? Algebraist 15:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * the diablo and the santa cruz mountains are separate features and are not the same. the near-x qualifier in the article name is compliant with no mos guideline. --emerson7 15:28, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It is true that the naming was chosen ad hoc. But I haven't heard a better solution yet.  There are two Black Mountains in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and there are also two Black Mountains in the Diablo Range, so neither of the names you used was unambiguous.  The MoS is just a guideline; it can't (and shouldn't try) to cover every possible configuration that can come up.
 * But I'm not married to the current names. Please suggest a better solution. --Trovatore (talk) 18:10, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * hmmm...i see your point. but don't agree that it is just a guideline when there's no common sense reason to deviate. however, when checking gnis, i only checked the santa clara county because that's the location of the summits in question. in what counties are the other peaks located? --emerson7 18:34, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The other one in the Santa Cruzes is near Woodside, so probably San Mateo County. The other one in the Diablos is near San Benito.  I'm not sure what county that is. --Trovatore (talk) 18:43, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * the solution to those summits is really quite simple. as per convention and mos, they should be disambiguated by the county name in which at sit.  --emerson7 20:05, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Problem with that is, the one near Los Altos and the one near Milpitas are both in Santa Clara County.
 * I suppose in principle you could do a double disambiguation, but this seems hideous to me. It would come out something like:
 * Black Mountain (Santa Cruz Mountains) (Santa Clara County)
 * Black Mountain (Santa Cruz Mountains) (San Mateo County)
 * Black Mountain (Diablo Range) (Santa Clara County)
 * Black Mountain (Diablo Range) (San Benito County)
 * Personally, I don't like that solution at all; I think the current one is much better. Let's not try to get too mechanical about the MoS here.  The existing solution disambiguates, is reasonably concise, and gives a reader who's familiar with the area a decent idea which peak is being discussed, or where it is.  Ideally any new proposal should have those same qualities. --Trovatore (talk) 20:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * rather than injection opinion and pov, i think it best to just stick with the rules only calling out those that are truly ambiguous in santa clara.


 * Black Mountain (Santa Cruz Mountains, Santa Clara County)
 * Black Mountain (Diablo Range, Santa Clara County)
 * Black Mountain (San Mateo County)
 * Black Mountain (San Benito County) --emerson7 20:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

reset tab:
 * I still don't like the double disambiguation, and it's also prone to misinterpretation. One might easily read it as "the Black Mountain that's in the Santa Cruz Mountains in Santa Clara County, rather than the other Santa Cruz Mountains in, I don't know, Chile or somewhere".  There might not be any Santa Cruz Mountains in Chile, but the reader may not know that.
 * Also I took a look at WP:PLACE and, while I'm not too impressed by the idea of rigorous devotion to the MoS in corner cses anyway, I really don't see anything that favors the double-disambig solution over the city-based one.
 * BTW did you figure out what happened with the last set of moves? They definitely have your name by them in the history. --Trovatore (talk) 23:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

For the benefit of any newcomers: The longstanding names were Black Mountain (near Milpitas, California) and Black Mountain (near Los Altos, California). I think these are still the best names I've seen so far. Unless anyone can come up with a better solution, I think they should move back to those names, and if necessary the MoS should be updated to mention this solution in this sort of case. --Trovatore (talk) 23:22, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.