Talk:Black Sabbath (album)/Archive 1

The Innocents
Should we consider some influence of the movie The Innocents in the making of this album main cover artwork? The lady in black being Miss Jessel from that movie?

NEMS version
The NEMS version is the one that I own that's why I know it's different from the rest JohnCastle 21:29 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

info on original European vs. North American editions
Is there any information as to why the original North American release did not include Evil Woman, and the original European edition did not include Wicked World? That's a fairly major difference to go unexplained. Repkow (talk) 15:23, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

release date
When you check the comments in the booklet that´s added to the album you will find that the official release date of the album (first released in the UK) is February friday 13th, 1970. Which gives it a nice "twist".

PJ

"Reviews"
Is there any point whatsoever in having the "reviews" by Robert Christgau on these album pages? There is no review technique being employed whatsoever; he doesn't actually reference the albums at all as he slags off what he perceives to be music that no-one with any sense at all would listen to. Reviews should not be deliberately insulting. Bretonbanquet 17:43, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

It's well known that Robert Christgau hates metal and is incapable of objectively reviewing these albums. I am going around and removing them as they detract from the page. Perhaps if Christgau wrote a real review of these albums we could provide those links. However links like http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=black+sabbath are not worthy of attention. Hopefully this Christgau fellow writes real reviews for the music he likes or else I question the sanity of people that care to read his thoughts. marnues (talk) 19:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Christgau is the best music critic. Portillo (talk) 05:22, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

It seems like this particular debate has been taken to the main page, resulting in an idiotic section dedicated to pointlessly arguing with one particular review. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.109.160.198 (talk) 17:41, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

<^>v|This album is connected|v<^>

 * All song titles serve as redirects to this album or have been placed at the appropriate disambiguation pages.--Hraefen Talk 17:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

A Bit Of Finger
2nd item under Miscellanea:

the ending (incorrectly labeled as the intro) of "Sleeping Village" is called "A Bit of Finger".

5th item under Miscellanea:

The short intro "A Bit Of Finger" to the song "Sleeping Village" was orig. called ЛЄНИН (Lenin)

Which is it... intro or ending? Quidsane 16:54, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Editing
This article needs to be cleaned up.

'60s?
someone changed all the dates to 1969. is there any proof of this? other websites have the same date but in 1970. i'd like to think it was 1969 too, just show that Sabbath was the heaviest and the earliest, but we can't edit this based on wishful thinking. but give me any proof and i'll be satisfied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aedhelbrand (talk • contribs) 16:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Need Citation for Many Items in "Music and Lyrics" Section
There are many claims made in the "Music and Lyrics" Section that could quite easily be interpreted as mere opinion if not backed up with a source, preferably an interview with a band member. I have provided a citation for one song meaning, "The Wizard." Disturbed360 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Disturbed360 (talk • contribs) 02:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be considered a blues-rock album also?
There are some songs that are very bluesy and aren't really heavy, such as Black Sabbath cover on "Evil Woman." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.126.241.210 (talk) 22:02, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been discussed. They are a heavy metal band. Not a doom metal band, not a blues-rock band. Just a heavy metal band. They don't play blues-rock they play blues influenced heavy metal. They don't play doom metal they play slow heavy metal. This topic has been beat to death. Time to let the horse have some peace. The Real Libs-speak politely 00:57, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Every Hard Rock band/song/album is metal for Wikipedia... fools... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.54.228.197 (talk) 10:22, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

No, he's wrong. This is most definatley a hard blues rock album as well. This guy has no idea what he's talking about. If you take a look at sleeping village, thats definatley blues rock. The Warning is probably the most bluesy rock song on there. One of the solos on Warning, as said by my guitar instructor, says it sounds exactly like Stevie Ray Vaughn. The only songs on here that are notably true heavy metal songs are Black Sabbath and N.I.B.
 * If you have a reliable source stating that this is a "hard blues rock" album, then perhaps it could be added (however bring it up here on the talk page first). However your opinion (or your guitar teacher's opinion) is not sufficient enough to change the article. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 02:49, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

"Wasp" and "A Bit Of Finger"
I think it's great that I'm not the only one who's always believed "Wasp" and "A Bit Of Finger" were meant to be titles of song suites that encompassed the other parts, but some sort of citation would be nice, since its still debated among fans what "Wasp" and "A Bit Of Finger" refer to. Kate Willaert (talk) 19:37, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I always thought "A Bit Of Finger" was the heavy bass jam at the beginning. You play the bass with your fingers, unlike the guitar which you play with a pick.  Not sure about "Wasp". Ndriley97 (talk) 05:56, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Poem
Who wrote the poem ("Still falls the rain...") on the inner sleeve?--80.133.244.183 (talk) 10:03, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I found somewhere that the author is unknown, is this true? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.10.123.142 (talk) 17:51, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Influence on goth and stoner rock
Sabbath's influence on stoner rock is widely known, so I believe "Sugar Bear", your issue here is the gothic influence, right? Check google books for Piero Scaruffi's History of Rock Music. His section on hard rock cites the group for pioneering the style. Also, not only do we have Spin noting their debut as the first goth record, but also take a look at the gothic metal article. "Despite this difference, "a few bold souls have identified Black Sabbath’s eponymous 1970 debut album as the first ever 'Goth-rock' record" states Gavin Baddeley's book Gothic Chic. RG (talk) 03:26, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm glad to see that this discussion has moved from the edit summaries onto the talk page. The information that seems to be in question looks to be well researched and documented, also the argument that it may not rise to the importance of being in the lede is a valid one.  Why not break the 'Release and legacy' section into two and move the information into 'legacy'?  By rights there really shouldn't be anything in the lede that isn't covered in the body of the article anyway. J04n(talk page) 13:47, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds fair to me. RG (talk) 19:42, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank god for Jo4n!--Greg D. Barnes (talk) 17:13, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Demo
I was watching a Black Sabbath documentary and they said Black Sabbath recorded a demo, then Vertigo picked them up and released the demo as is for their first album. Is this true? The article doesn't say anything about that, but I can't imagine why it'd be wrong. 98.203.152.242 (talk) 20:30, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Ossie?
My version of the album (Warner Brothers WS 1871) lists Mr. Osborne as "Ossie Osborne" on the back cover. I don't know if that spelling was carried over to subsequent pressings of the album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.46.88 (talk) 21:16, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

first major album in the development of heavy metal?? no ...
The source for that statement is somewhat suspect, as it comes from a Sabbath tribute.

This very argument was part of a long article on the band Nazareth in an issue of Circus magazine around 1975, with some adherents vouching for The Yardbirds, and others to Vanilla Fudge. You can find this debate in many articles and books dealing with rock 'n' roll. Led Zeppelin had metal music on it's first two albums which pre-date the first BS release, Grand Funk's first album was reviewed in some quarters as "heavy metal monotony" at the time of its release, and so on.

There should be a qualifier put on this statement, something along the lines of "many feel" -"arguably" - or something like that. Now it is easy to hear that this record was certainly the heaviest in terms of production and style up to that point - Iommi's overdubbing achieving that blast-of-sound - loved and hated in about equal amounts, critically. HammerFilmFan (talk) 11:55, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Album art / Company logo
Is it really more desirable to have an added logo of a company that only connection to Black Sabbath is sales and merchandizing. I believe it's definitely more encyclopedic to show the album art closer to what was seen in 1970. Thoughts ? Mlpearc ( powwow ) 20:37, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Cristgau review
The quote "the worst of the counterculture on a plastic platter" does not belong in this. His reviews should be acceptable if they include something about this music. This tells the reader nothing. It can be added back if someone can quote the review to include something relevant to music. UselessToRemain (talk) 19:32, 14 July 2012 (UTC)