Talk:Black Sea/Archive 1

Editing needed by expert:
The following sentence from the text refers to a danger. It is not clear what this danger is. It is also not clear what is the nature of the other danger that the sentence refers to. Someone who knows the anoxic effect theories need to explain both dangers clearly and also clarify the extent to which they are real or hypothetical. "Another danger to people posed by the anoxic layer could come from a small asteroid's impact into the Black Sea. Recently modelling shows there is a significant threat to life for people living on the sea's shore." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.151.171 (talk) 22:28, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Geology or Limnology?
Moved comment by 63.224.220.61 from page to here for discussionPollinator 13:09, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC):
 * This paragraph does not discuss the geology of the Black Sea... by definition a sea is comprised of liquid water and does not have 'geology.' This paragraph also does not discuss the geology of the region around the Black Sea. What it actually does discuss is the limnology of the Black Sea.

Satellite view
What are the red dots all over the image? --Tothebarricades.tk 03:44, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Geology / History
I sure feel stupid for asking, but what's a "sweetwater" lake?

Just a comment: In the History section, I read the first paragraph 4-5 times - I still don't get it.


 * The water of seas and oceans is salted. Opposed to that, the water of most lakes has far less salt and it is labeled "sweetwater" or "fresh water". See more at the article about fresh water. bogdan &#676;ju&#643;k&#601; | Talk 13:22, 31 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I changed the term "sweetwater" to "freshwater", as that definition of sweetwater was not in any dictionary I could find. In English, the term "freshwater" is universally understood to describe a body of water with a low salt concentration.--Acefox 30 June 2005 19:13 (UTC)

Net inflow of water?
This one is probably silly as well, but if there is a net inflow of sea water, and an extra inflow of fresh water, either the level is rising, or evaoporation is increasing at the same rate (and hence the sea is becoming more salty). Or is the net inflow of sea water from the Mediterranean being compensated by a net outflow of fresh water into the Mediterranean? I guess there's something I don't understand about the whole mechanism :o)


 * Not really an answer to your question -- but I read an article in Scientific American a decade or more ago, that said water flows in both directions through the dardenelles. The water flowing in one direction is less salty and less dense than the water flowing in the other direction.  But I can't remember which direction the two flows are, or their relative volume of flow.  I think I assumed, at the time, that they were of equal volume.  The article says the salty layer starts at 150 meters.  I didn't know the dardenelles was that deep.  I wouldn't expect that depth if the deluge theory was correct.  But, what do I know.  --  Geo Swan 00:04, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, the section on the Black Sea water budget is in error. Warm, salty, and more dense water flows into the Black Sea through the lower layer of the Bosphorus Straits, while less salty, less dense, and often cooler water flows out of the Black Sea at the surface. Rough numbers are: Lower Bosphorus Layer, 300 km3/yr in; Bosphorus Surface Layer, 600 km3/yr out; Evaporation from the surface of the Black Sea, 300 km3/yr out; Precipitation to the surface of the Black Sea, 300 km3/yr in; River Inflow to the Black Sea, 300 km3/yr in. Details and exact values are discussed by Ünlüata et al (1990) and Latif et al (1991) and summarized by Özsoy and Ünlüata (1997). These authors assume the Black Sea salinity budget is close to balanced. That is, 300 km^3/yr of water with a salinity of ~36 psu flow in while 600 km3/yr of water with a salinity of ~18 psu flow out, yielding no change in the mass of salt to within some small error. This is a good approximation on short times scales (<100 years) but may be inaccurate on longer time scales. -Steve —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.71.232.28 (talk) 22:06, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

FURTHER COMMENT from TreeDoctor: The density of water decreases with increasing temperature in this temperature range. Thus, the warmer water from the Mediterranean would be less dense than the Black Sea, if temperature were the only difference. Salinity, however, has a much greater impact than temperature. The more saline water of the Mediterranean is much denser than the cooler, fresher water of the Black Sea. Also too... "salinated" would, I suppose, be the past participle of the transitive verb "salinate", which means to add salt to; which is to say, it's not the correct word. A suggested re-write would be:

Although the water in the Black Sea is cooler, it is considerably less saline than the Mediterranean, which gives it a lower density. This causes the outflow of water from the Black sea to float over the saline water entering the Black Sea from the Mediterranean. TreeDoctor (talk) 08:09, 17 February 2009 (UTC)TreeDoctor 17 Feb 2009

Interesting facts
Some interesting facts from this article:
 * last major tsunami was in 1901, with waves 5-metre high. Historically, in 104 AD, the Greek colony of Calatis (now Mangalia) was severely hit by another one.
 * the tides are only 11 cm high.
 * sometimes spontaneous ignition occurs (due to deep gases that reach the surface -- it would be great some more info on the exact chemical reactions). bogdan | Talk 20:33, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Name
The section on `History' at the end contradicts the section on `Name' at the start, suggesting that the name `Black Sea' was used by the Ancient Greeks. This should be fixed, one way or the other: I don't know who is right.

Mhardcastle 21:31, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Should't therebe something about the history of the people that live/d around theBlack Sea,or at least something redirectig to other articles? The sea played such an important role in Eurpean and Near Easternhistory since anchient times, that it seems strange that reference is only made to the "scientific" facts around the sea and not its historical and cultural role.

Hydrogen Sulfide / Sulfuric Acid
I understand bacteria using sulfates as an oxidising agent for metabolism in anoxic conditions. However, I can't see the released H2S reacting with anoxic seawater to regenerate the SO42-. And even if it did, it wouldn't lead to precipitates of sulphides. The H2S, I suspect, remains in solution, reacting with metal ions to precipitate sulfide minerals.

I am not sufficiently familiar with sulfur chemistry to edit the text myself with any great assurance of getting it right, but I think this is an anomaly that needs input from someone who does know.--King Hildebrand 20:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure on this one, but perhaps the H2S reacts with sub-oxic seawater which is located in the intermediate layers, as well as reacting with metal ions. The info was taken from a 1974 paper, so the theory could need revising! (Oli b (talk) 00:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)}

Geographic inconsistency/typo?
There appears to be a geographic inconsistency, perhaps a typo, in the section "Geology & Bathymetry". The sentence which reads "The southern edge around Turkey, and the western edge around Georgia ..." doesn't make sense as this western edge (of a sub-basin) would be against Bulgaria, not Georgia - which is to the eastern shore.

there is a very beautifu pictuaresque colour photo which is labeled "the black sea near Suchu, taken in 1915". I doubt such a high quality colour photo could have been taken back then ?!


 * It appears to be a Prokudin-Gorskii photo. See the relevant article on his methods to make color photographs. Khoikhoi 09:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

fish?
THe fauna section doesn't talk about fauna —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.206.165.55 (talk) 08:33, 2 February 2007 (UTC).
 * That is because it is not yet written. If you have something to add, please register, and help the project out. Somnabot 00:06, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Black Sea is a lake!
You can consider the Black Sea to be a true lake because of the very narrow river that leads into it. Other than that, more than 99% of the whole entire sea is surrounded by land (when including the Sea of Azov). A lake doesn't have to be precisely 100% surrounded by pure land. The Great Lakes, for example, are connected to the ocean by a waterway (which is exactly what the Bosphorous is). Also, it is at least 100 miles inland from the Mediterranean Sea, and is separated by a series of waterways and a "lake" just south. 131.191.64.130 23:08, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting point; however, you should know that the Great Lakes are at a significantly higher elevation than the Atlantic Ocean. That's why there are/were rapids on the St. Larwence River between Lake Ontario and the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Whereas I haven't heard of any similarly large elevation drop along the Bosphorus. I'd be interested in knowing what the elevation of the Black Sea is, though. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 01:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I would note that the St. Lawrence Seaway is not a natural formation, rather it is an amalgamation of various canals, natural waterways and locks and dams.208.82.225.232 (talk) 06:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine, but the St. Lawrence River was a natural formation. That is, the lakes always drained into the Gulf. Humans have changed it since, yes. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 15:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Abkhazia
When there is a list of resorts on the black sea, town Gagra (and others as well) are said to be not in Georgia only but in "Abkhazia, Georgia". i think it is the violation of Goergia's souverinity, as the teritory of Abkhazia is considend to be part of Goergia.


 * I think saying "Abkhazia, Georgia" is a good compromise between saying one or the other. See the de facto and de jure articles. Khoikhoi 03:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Volume
It would be useful to mention the volume of the Black Sea for comparison with other seas and lakes. -Pgan002 03:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Pontus Euxinus
In my historical atlas, the Sea is Named Pontus Euxinus, as opposed to Euxeinos Pontos stated in the artical. I do not speak latin, but from what I understand "Pontus" and "Pontos" are two different words meaning "Bridge" and "Sea", respectively. Is the change from "Pontos" to "pontus" due to placing it at the start rather than after Euxinus, or might it to do with the geographical area having been considered the link to the East by the West? Or, as the Latin word Mare was more commonly used for "Sea", might the word Pontus be in reference to the Pontus region on the southern coast of the sea? Just a thought. ArdClose 21:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The -us ending is Latin, -os is Greek. 'Pontos' is Greek for sea, not Latin.  'Pons' (pont-) means bridge in Latin, but 'pontus' by itself seems to have been retained for this sea in particular as a Latin equivalent for Greek 'Pontos'. Til Eulenspiegel 21:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Regional organizations?
What's the connection between the sea and GUAM or CDC? Half of GUAM members and 66% of CDC members don't even have a direct access to Black see or in case of the Baltic countries are way too far... GuggiePrg (talk) 19:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Euxine Sea
I have seen in the Hypo Dictionary that the Euxine Sea is mearly the Sea of Azov and not the entire Black Sea. Can you please advise which is the correct version ? Thanks for much kind assistance. Michael Komissar email: komissar@komissar.co.il 12:34, 25 January 2004

Color pic of the B.S. region near Gagra, from 1915?
OK, that seems peculiar to me! Was the technology to make a color pic like this really available in 1915? Or is this an old pic that was recolored much later? Or is the date wrong? Shouldn't the encyclopedia mention that the color's not natural if it isn't? Songflower (talk) 23:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Mediterranean or not?
The Mediterranean article says that the Black Sea is not usually considered part of the Mediterranean, but that is all. Now, I am pretty sure there are some definitions in geography that can answer the question is the Black Sea part of the Med or not, but they are not mentioned anywhere in the article, or in this one. In any case, I was taught that the Black Sea IS part of the Mediterranean. So where lies the truth?--Mátyás (talk) 12:31, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No, it's not. It is separate sea (not part of it). However, both are part of the Atlantic Ocean. Diyan.boyanov (talk) 11:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "However, both are part of the Atlantic Ocean." Are you sure about that? While it's true you can sail from Georgia to Georgia, the International Hydrographic Organization's Limits of Oceans and Seas states that the Atlantic stops at Gibraltar.209.179.21.14 (talk) 01:12, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

The Black Sea is a sea by itself and NOT a part of any other sea or Ocean. For the same reason the Mediterranean Sea is NOT considered part of the Atlantic Ocean, actually, it is quite funny (if not utterly rediculous) for anyone to make such a claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.135.94.91 (talk) 16:58, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Shipping
Would someone be able to add some information about shipping in the Black sea? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.15.46.217 (talk) 21:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Compass
The sentence "The reason for this color term may be an ancient assignment of colors to the direction of the compass" is enigmatic because the compass was unknown at that time. Could it be rephrased? Ceinturion (talk) 07:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I changed 'direction of the compass' to 'cardinal directions'. Ceinturion (talk) 23:11, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Fish
Desperately need a section on fish! It contributes to the unique kitchen of the region. How can this article not mention anything about Hamsi, Kalkan, Uskumru, Palamut, and Flying Fish (sorry, I only know the Turkish names). I am hungry already! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.77.168.53 (talk) 05:40, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Well "hamsi" are anchovies but I suspect some of the others have no common English names. Suggest you just start writing the section but generalise it as e.g. "marine life". I see there is a bit in the Turkish wikipedia (I have no idea what a "pig fish" is!) you could translate and add here to get things started. Then others could come in and improve it. Jzlcdh (talk) 21:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Inland sea
The opener currently describes the Black Sea as an inland sea. I don't see how it can be considered such if (as is mentioned later) it is connected to the open ocean by straits. Inland seas (such as the Caspian, Australia's lake Eyre, Great Salt Lake) are not connected to the open ocean.Ordinary Person (talk) 04:18, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Have you read the article Inland sea? This gives examples of several seas that are connected to the oceans. I'm not certain of the true definition, but I suspect that this other article is correct. Bazonka (talk) 08:16, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The inland sea article is a bit of a dogfight. Although an increase in sea level can cause new inland seas to form, so could lowering sea levels (e.g. a lowering sea level would result in the Mediterranean Sea and Persian Gulf becoming an inland seas again. That article only mentions two existing bodies that it identifies clearly as inland seas: the Baltic and the Caspian (though it does mention the Black is a contender for largest body of brackish water.)
 * The IHO does not appear to have a definition for it, so perhaps it is not a technical term at all. I'll be hornswaggled if I can understand why the Baltic would be regarded as an inland sea if the Mediterranean isn't. (scratches head)Ordinary Person (talk) 14:10, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess it's a matter of definition: THE Inland Sea has 4 connections to larger seas! If inland sea is defined as "a body of salt water not connected to the open ocean", then what is the difference between an inland sea and a salt lake? Preslav (talk) 15:33, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Tides
I assume there are tides? How might the size and configuration of the sea affect those? Abductive (reasoning) 17:29, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about elsewhere but there are no significant tides here in Samsun. Jzlcdh (talk) 20:47, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Tides are almost unnoticeable in Albena, a Black Sea resort.

Tides exists because of the moon gravitation -- it "pulls" the water towards it, which creates "high-tide" in the region closer to the moon. Check out this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide. Larger seas are affected more, because more water is being "pulled". So, imagine the moon is above the Atlantic. Huge volume of water is being "pulled". When this "pulled" water reaches the shore, it "climbs" on the beach. So... the smaller the sea, the smaller the tides (generally; i guess topography is another factor). Diyan.boyanov (talk) 11:14, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

For example, there are no significant tides in the Mediterrannean (~20 cm AFAIK), you can't really see them if you aren't aware. I assume the tide size must be lesser in the Black Sea. 80.82.235.62 (talk) A newbie ;) — Preceding undated comment added 16:24, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Near Romanian coast
I don't understand why those pictures of aquatic flora&fauna are all named ", near Romanian coast". The same species can be found anywhere else in the sea. I mean, what if every single picture contains info about where it was taken?! Diyan.boyanov (talk) 11:29, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right - I've been bold and removed those words ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 11:15, 18 March 2014 (UTC)