Talk:Black Widow (Natasha Romanova)

Dark Reign (Thunderbolts)
It says that Ant-man is responsible for saving her. However I thought it was Ghost who saved her while Ant-man hid in a vent watching it all unfold?--136.142.46.33 (talk) 20:10, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Cover scan
Here's the URL for a cover scan of the comic book where Black Widow was introduced. I just haven't gotten the knack of adding images top Wiki, but if anyone's feeling ambitious...!

http://www.samcci.comics.org/suspense/52.htm

Ballet Dancer
In recent storylines, Romanova's childhood memories of ballet were written to be false, implanted. Does she still know ballet now? Has she used ballet in the comics at all? Or should this be removed as one of her powers? Ragdoll 21:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

They were implanted but she would still have the abilities of a prima ballerina. June 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pillze (talk • contribs) 21:29, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Deceased
The latest edit claims that Natasha is now deceased. Yet from the text itself it would seem that it is Yelena who died. I would rather not make the correction because I am not certain. Luis Dantas 05:56, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't know who made the Natasha claim. I'll make the fix since it was Yelena who got melted into goo in New Avengers Annual. Nice catch.--Tenebrae 14:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

comicbox fault?
it's a problem with my browser(!) or the 'born' and 'relatives' tag in comicbox NOT appears (even if available)? strange.. --88.149.169.237 19:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Split
I believe this article should be split into two: Black Widow (Natasha Romanova) and Black Widow (Yelena Belova) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gonzalo84 (talk • contribs) 11:36 September 23, 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * I think it's possible, but as both Black Widows were more or less designed by the same program for the same purpose, I think it's fine if Yelena Belova stays where she is. She has such a short history that it doesn't seem she'd warrant her own page. —Ragdoll 01:55, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Ragdoll by the same reasons. —Lesfer (t/c/@) 02:05, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep as one article - ditto. If Yelena Belova returns in some form and there's more to say about her, it might make sense to split. For the moment, I think this makes more sense as just one page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mrph (talk • contribs) 1 October 2006.

I'm on the fence because Belova played a role in New Avengers with her new Super Adaptoid powers. --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 06:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I say split. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.97.26.141 (talk) 3 October 2006.

Decision
Closed with a decision to keep as one article - although it might be worth revisiting this if/when Yelena Belova is revived for further appearances. --Mrph 21:04, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Well... she's now part of the regular cast of one of Marvel's main series.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:35, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Hilary Swank as Black Widow
Although it is confirmed that Hilary Swank will appear in the Iron Man movie of 2008, no news source has yet confirmed who Swank will play? Should we jump to this conclusion that quickly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.86.172.27 (talk • contribs)


 * This encyclopedia will be here a long, long time. We can wait a few days to put in concrete, confirmed, verifiable info. Also, please sign your posts. Thanks. --Tenebrae 15:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

She's not in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.56.11 (talk) 00:21, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

WPC editorial gudielines
Hi, and thanks for filling-in a missing image at Black Widow (Marvel Comics). Just a reminder: The cover-art captions don't use line breaks, and don't say "Cover of" at front, don't use pare theses around the volume number, don't treat volume number like a proper-noun part of the title, and do use issue dates, per WikiProject Comics/Style guidance. So the caption for the one you just added would be:
 * Captain America vol. 5, #32 (Jan. 2007). Cover art by Steve Epting.

Although in this case, where it's not an actual cover with logo, trade dress, etc., it would be:
 * Promotional art for Captain America vol. 5, #32 (Jan. 2007), by Steve Epting.

That's the general stuff. In this case, though, the image isn't appropriate because of the clutter of other heroes and the crouched pose that somewhat obscures a full character image. Per WikiProject Comics/Style guidance: Thanks for your understanding and your contributions! --Tenebrae 16:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) The ideal image is a full-body, three-quarter picture of the character standing straight with no background, with a facing-the-camera or profile picture as the next-best.
 * 2) If a full-body shot is unavailable, the picture must show the whole of the head and torso (or the equivalent for non-humanoid characters).
 * 3) Visibly contorted poses should not be used under any circumstances.

Fair use rationale for Image:Black Widow (Ultimate Avengers-The Movie) 001.jpg
Image:Black Widow (Ultimate Avengers-The Movie) 001.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:BlackWidow2002No.1.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:BlackWidow2005No1.jpg
Image:BlackWidow2005No1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Avengers36panel.jpg
Image:Avengers36panel.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Punisher/Black Widow: Spinning Doomsday's Web
Punisher/Black Widow: Spinning Doomsday's Web appears to be mentioned twice, in Publication History and in Miniseries and Specials. Was this intentional? Jeffrywith1e (talk) 15:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Skrull?
Has she been confirmed as a skrull? She has green eyes, but she attacked the skrull queen. Confused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doeswhateveraspidercan666 (talk • contribs) 11:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The Marvel Directory lists her as having blue eyes. I noted the change in her physical description. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.112.179 (talk) 18:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Split revisited
The two Widows exist in parallel, one is not the other's successor, plus Belova is now on Thunderbolts. There should be two articles.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 22:58, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Agree - as it is clear she is going to have a long term role in Thunderbolts it makes sense to split this off to Black Widow (Yelena Belova). (Emperor (talk) 00:10, 25 January 2009 (UTC))


 * I've been thinking about this as well since reading TB #128, and I concur. BOZ (talk) 02:59, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Any more opinions before we close this? (Emperor (talk) 14:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC))


 * Split done. (Emperor (talk) 14:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC))

Well seeing as Yelena in Thunderbolts was just revealed to be Natasha THIS WHOLE TIME... Ugh, I'm still all for them having separate articles, but the information needs to be moved around.24.190.34.219 (talk) 07:09, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Black Widow intended in Death of Hulk telefilm?
In the late 1980s, NBC aired three television movies that were sequels to the CBS series The Incredible Hulk. The first two each featured an adaptation of one other Marvel Comics character, Thor and Daredevil respectively. The third was initially announced as involving She-Hulk, but what aired had something else entirely. The Death of the Incredible Hulk (1990) featured a woman, played by Elizabeth Gracen, who was forced, by threats against her captive sister, to carry out espionage missions for a foreign power, usually while wearing a black body suit. The article here gives a little bit of the early background of the Black Widow, then describes what is admitted to be a "retconned" origin for her, no details of the initial one. What I have always understood that to be was very similar to what happens with this film's character, Jasmin: The person from whom she gets her assignments and who she knows only by a code name—no face to face meeting—turns out to be the aforementioned sister, a revelation that allows her to quit and run away. In the original comics, as I understand it, Natasha Romanoff ("Natalia Romanov" is itself a retcon, isn't it? If so, shouldn't that—and the first origin in any event—be in the article?) had her husband's life held against her, and her costumed (including mask) and code-named "control" is eventually revealed to be her husband, giving her the freedom to defect. Unless I have been badly misled about the comics character, the parallels/resemblances between Jasmin and the Black Widow are too close to pass off as coincidence, especially given the fact and specific nature of Marvel Comics' involvement in the project. This film's titular event (the Hulk's death) comes out of left field in the closing minutes, strongly indicating a late-in-the-proverbial-day rewrite. Incidentally, my source for the She-Hulk's intended but aborted involvement (and there was an approximately three month delay of the film at that point) is Comics Scene magazine's "Comics Reporter/Comics Screen" column, and none of the few issues I retain from this era contain an entry for the Widow at all, i.e., this staff had no information that her TV/film rights were in somebody else's hands at this time. Does any Black Widow fan have a citable source that this script was developed to feature Natasha, then for whatever reason had her nominally written out and the new title and what it describes added on? I put this question forward on the movie's talk page quite some time ago, but no response there. Again, anybody here? --Ted Watson (talk) 20:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE: Taking a fresh look at the article—there have been major revamps since I (yes, I) wrote the above—I find a reference to her husband, his costumed identity of the Red Guardian, and a Wikilink to an article about him. It seems that Natasha had been told that he was dead rather than a prisoner, and not had his well-being used as an extortion weapon against her. This even appears to be something of a retcon itself, as his first appearance in print is stated to be well after she defected and allied with the Avengers. So DotIH 's Jasmin isn't all that close to the Widow after all. Yet, she still isn't all that far off either, especially in comparison to the then-recent Thor adaptation (The Incredible Hulk Returns). --Tbrittreid (talk) 20:50, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I've read in several places (which I unfortunately don't have links to, though I think they were all people writing about stuff they'd heard elsewhere) that it was initially supposed to be Bridgette Nielsen as She-Hulk, but then they shifted gears and went with Elizabeth Gracen as Black Widow (Natasha Romanov). Return of the Incredible Hulk (Thor - which was awful) and Trial of the Incredible Hulk (Daredevil - better than Ben Affleck) were, from my understanding, supposed to be back-door pilots for new shows featuring their respective heroes, but neither went anywhere. I don't know if that was supposed to be the case with Death of the Incredible Hulk, whether they were planning to do a series either on She-Hulk or Black Widow. At some point later, gears shifted again and it was decided that Death of the Incredible Hulk would be the last of the Bill Bixby/Lou Ferrigno Hulk movies, possibly because of Bixby's colon cancer that did take his life. Anyhow, with it being the last of the series, it was decided to not have any other known character sharing the spotlight, so Natasha Romanov got a name change to Jasmine/Yasmin, but not much else was changed about her. All of that to say, should there be a referencee in this article about the character of Jasmine, given that she really was a thinly veiled Natasha Romanov? I've seen other articles include similar information where a character almost made it in a TV show or movie - the article about Power Girl includes a paragraph about how Galatea from Justice League Unlimited was based on her. Nolefan32 (talk) 19:03, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation
Hi. I'm not that skilled, otherwise I'd do it myself. I think it would be better tu set up a disambiguation between the Marvel character and the spider. Actually, typing "Black Widow" in the search engine jumps directly to the spider.--Webwizard (talk) 08:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It doesn't - it goes to the disambiguation page from both Black Widow and black widow. There is no need for a hatnote from here to there following WP:NAMB and we have a set index for the name in comics: Black Widow (comics), so I think we have the bases covered (if I've not misunderstood the question - it wouldn't be the first time ;) ). (Emperor (talk) 14:20, 6 March 2009 (UTC))
 * Wierd. I tried again and this time goes correctly to the disambiguation page. Probably a ghost in the machine. I'll call Dr. Egon Spengler to fix it....--Webwizard (talk) 11:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Capture by Osborn
Is it me, or did Black Widow was captured by Osborn in two different ways in three different comic books during the same period of time. First, she was helping Hill and was captured by Hammer. Second, she was captured while helping Songbird by Thunderbolts. What's up with being captured twice.--RossF18 (talk) 17:37, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, almost forgot. And she was captured the third time in Captain America rebirth miniseries # 2 where Osborn let her go in order for her to have Sharon Carter turn herself or the also captured Captain America will bite the dust, so to speak. And in that Thunderbolts issue, Osborn damanded that she reveal where Captain America is. So that's 3 caputres by Osborn in three different ways and with one seeming bearing no relation to each other and Osborn not being aware that one relates to the other.--RossF18 (talk) 21:41, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Name Change
When was her name changed from "Nathasha Romanoff" to "Natalia Romanova"? The first reference I can find to "Natalia" is Wolverine #8 (January, 2007) according to CBDB.com. I'm guessing Romanova is just more traditional than the Anglicized Romanoff, but Natalia is not a shortened version of Natasha.173.88.154.149 (talk) 21:01, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Someone apparently thinks her name is "Natalia Romanoff" because, in Iron Man 2, she's initially undercover as Natalie Rushman. However, I went to watch the movie yesterday and I'm pretty sure they reveal her name as Natasha Romanoff as well.

Even so, this is the comic book character we're talking about, and she's always been Natasha.
 * "Natasha" is not a shortened version of "Natalia" but a Russian diminutive. As for Romanova and Romanoff/Romanov, the Russian language includes grammatical gender in the family name, so Romanov would be the name of a man and Romanova a woman, although the family name would still be considered the same. Therefore, letter-for-letter, Romanova is technically correct, however, many Americans of Russian descent ignore that rule when romanizing their name for simplicity's sake. (For example, compare Anastasia Liukin vs her birth name Liukina.)--71.121.211.26 (talk) 00:38, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * As IP 87.196.51.137 (per the edit history logs) correctly said, "Even so, this is the comic book character we're talking about," or more appropriately to this more recent post, "This is A comic book character we're talking about." Being "technically correct" in the real world Russian language is irrelevant: It's what's in Marvel's comics that counts here (besides, "shortened version" and "diminutive" "pet name" are by no means mutually exclusive terms; obviously, the latter is just one form of the former). Can someone authoritatively set us straight on her name in the comics? --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:17, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Tbrittreid, my reply was to the odd observational conflict up there in the first post: "Natalia is not a shortened version of Natasha." Well, no, having exactly seven letters each, there's nothing "shortened" about it, unless we're talking about diminutives, in which case it is (hence I provided that convenient Wikilink). Now this brings us to the whole "just a comic book character" business: that first post also provides a reference for the usage of "Natalia" is the comics ("Wolverine #8"). The character has been around for nearly fifty years, so to be "authoritatively" set straight someone would need to plow through hundreds of comics to see whether there's ever been any consistency in her name's spelling. My suggestion is to source both Natalia Romanova and the perhaps more common "Natasha Romanoff" and leave it at that.--71.121.211.26 (talk) 04:29, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just did a few quick searches. The name "Natalia Romanov" appears in Wolverine: Origins #9 (Feb. 2007), while "Natalia Romanova" appears several issues later in Wolverine: Origins #16 (Oct. 2007). Both issues have the same writer, Daniel Way. I don't know whether these two comics represent the earliest usage of this particulare rendition of her name, but as I suspected, there's essentially no consistency. IGN.com's profile of Black Widow lists her name as Natalia Romanova while including several variants, notably Natasha Romanoff, while the most official source we can probably find, Marvel.com, lists her real name as Natalia "Natasha" Alianovna Romanova. I think it's a done deal then. --71.121.211.26 (talk) 05:18, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I have to agree the actual point does indeed seem "done." As for "shortened," when it comes to personal names, it isn't meant literally. Gracie Allen (aka Mrs. George Burns) used to say that her parents named her Grace but called her Gracie for short! --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:55, 9 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't it be more prudent to name the page after the character's most well known name, ie "Natasha Romanoff"? There are several decades worth of material where that was her name, and that has been the name the character has gone by regardless of what her "full" name is. I believe the Natalia Romanova name is a very recent retcon. Just as the Pepper Potts page is not named Virginia Potts, and the Happy Hogan page is not named Harold Hogan, it would seem to be more sensible to name the page after the character's "common name". I would think the purpose of this encyclopedic page would be to most accurately represent the 60 years worth of material related to the character, and the name "Natalia Romanova" is more a footnote in the character's history -Fandraltastic (talk) 12:10, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * In fact, I would argue WP:COMMONNAME applies. -Fandraltastic (talk) 13:41, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Natalia Romanova isn't actually a very recent retcon. Romanova, instead of Romanoff, appeared in the original 1982 Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe, following more standard transliteration. (And readers only learned her last name in 1972, with Daredevil #86— previous to this she was just Madame Natasha.) Natalia has been used as her first name since the 1992 Black Widow: the Coldest War GN with frequency. Black Widow comics since then have made pretty extensive use of the formal Natalia, following standard Russian practices rather than 1960s misconceptions. --71.193.194.210 (talk) 00:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move page. There seems to be some inconsistency in how this character is referred to by sources, and there's not a single most attested version that rises above the others. Therefore, no point moving the page unless a clear common name becomes apparent. - GTBacchus(talk) 02:30, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Black Widow (Natalia Romanova) → Black Widow (Natasha Romanoff) — Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:41, 30 April 2011 (UTC) WP:COMMONNAME. It's really that simple. The name the page currently uses is a very minor recent retcon and is hardly ever used when referring to the character, even within the comic books. For 40 years the character's name was "Natasha Romanoff" and that is the name that is still used to refer the character, even though it is not technically her "full" name any longer. Fandraltastic (talk) 03:26, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Oppose The Marvel site gives her name as "Black Widow (Natasha Romanova)" Chaosdruid (talk) 22:35, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment: In the OHOTMU, the two are used "Black Widow (Natasha Romanoff)" or "Black Widow (Natasha Romanova)" --Crazy runner (talk) 06:16, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * Fandraltastic makes a good suggestion, with history on its side. I'm wondering if it would be easier to use "Black Widow (Marvel Comics)" and "Black Widow (Timely Comics)", with a hatnote? --Tenebrae (talk) 17:06, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the problem with that would be Black Widow (Yelena Belova). -Fandraltastic (talk) 17:14, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah. I had a feeling I was forgetting something! Well, in that case, Support --Tenebrae (talk) 17:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The listings of appearances in Marvel comics is here, 1964 (1959?) was the first apparently. Chaosdruid (talk) 02:00, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Slavonic surnames ending in -ov or -ev tend to add an 'a' when the named person is female. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Split?
I believe the "in other media" section has enough info to be split into a new article.71.162.100.157 (talk) 20:31, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really once you remove all the plot cruft.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 22:36, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Hypnosis
I don't see anywhere in the page explaining about hypnosis; update it. AnthonyTheGamer (talk) 20:01, 2 March 2012 (UTC) AnthonyTheGamer

Aren't you forgetting a power?
I clearly remember her having the ability to climb walls the entire time she was dating Hawkeye, and during her encounter with Spider-Man when she decided to change to the now-familiar black suit. In fact Spidey was quite startled by the fact that she seemed to have the same powers he did. Mind you, it's been so long since she's done that I'd forgotten until reading the powers section just now. Can she no longer do that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thetrellan (talk • contribs) 01:33, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Proposed move at Black Widow.
For any editors concerned, there is a proposed moved at the disambiguation page Black Widow. If you have anything to add to the discussion, please do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Black_Widow#Proposed_move Weebro55 (talk) 03:53, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Draft for Black Widow (film)
This is just a notice that there is a draft for Black Widow at Draft:Black Widow (upcoming film) until such time that it is ready for inclusion in the mainspace. All are welcome to come help nurture the article's development there. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:00, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

black widow in other media/reception
I think there needs to be more depth to the section on other media she is in. Such as specific episodes she has appeared in. Also possibly go into depth about the discrepancies between the film or television shows versus the comics. Talk about the reception of her character in film and video games more in the reception section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.206.151 (talk) 16:36, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

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Romanova/Romanoff
Should it be of any interest to include in the "other media" section that Black Widow's surname was incorrectly spelled "Romanoff" (instead of Romanova) in the MCU films? --Daerun (talk) 10:43, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not incorrect in the sense you're talking about. The name "Romanova" has only been assigned to her very recently; for the vast majority of the character's published history she was called "Natasha Romanoff". The trouble is that "Romanoff" is a man's name; apparently the folks working at Marvel at the time of her creation, like most non-Russians, were ignorant of the fact that Russian last names each have a masculine and feminine form. Decades later, they retconned her last name to the feminine form. This is an issue that really should be discussed under "Publication history" and at least mentioned in the lead, not just "other media". Sadly, right now all the article has is an apparently fan-devised in-universe explanation, and I have yet to come across any good reliable sources covering the issue.--NukeofEarl (talk) 20:42, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

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Fictional character biography
The FCB is insanely too long and way violative of WikiProject Comics guidelines. "Secret Wars" and "Secret Invasion" alone are longer than the first 20 years of the character! This needs trimmed severely. If current editors wish to help, that would be great. If not, I'm glad to tackle it on my own.--Tenebrae (talk) 14:51, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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136
The "Collected editions" table includes a column with no heading label and only one entry, that spans the last two rows of the column. It is not clear what the number "136" is supposed to mean here. Could someone please explain what this is supposed to mean and improve the table to include some context. -- 37.110.218.43 (talk) 10:43, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Image deletion nomination(s)
One or more images currently used in this article have been nominated for deletion as violations of the non-free content criteria (NFCC).

You can read more about what this means and why these files are being nominated for deletion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics.

You can participate at the deletion discussion(s) at Files for discussion/2020 April 29. If you are not familiar with NFCC-related deletion discussions, I recommend reading the post linked above first.

Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 04:03, 29 April 2020 (UTC)