Talk:Black dog (folklore)

Merge proposal for Gytrash
It seems that the article Gytrash would fit within the scope of Black dog (ghost). Would anyone object to its being merged here? — Archon Magnus (Talk 19:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, it is a regional name for the Black Dog and would best be merged.Simon Burchell (talk) 09:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support provided that the material on Gytrash is not lost and its significant in Jane Eyre is retained. Gytrash should redirect to this article. JMcC (talk) 14:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support provided it be shown that Gytrash is a regional name in the introduction. (And no, I don't support the merging of Yeth hound, seeing some other major black dog related articles are seperate i.e. Black Shuck, Barghest...)


 * 7h3 0N3 7h3 \/4Nl)4L5 Pl-l34R ( t  /  c  ) 04:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose as a Gytrash can be a horse, a mule or a dog. --Bensin (talk) 23:04, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose as the Gytrash is one of the 'major' black dogs, like Black Shuck or the Barguest, and therefore merits a separate article. Mon Vier (talk) 13:17, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose as the black dog and gytrash are culturally and regionally similar, but by no means the same folklore, merging the two would not be very acurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.119.181 (talk) 02:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Removing merge to-template from Gytrash as no consensus has been reached since January 2009. --Bensin (talk) 01:04, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Unreferenced material
I've removed some stuff from the main article and put it here until it can be referenced —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simon Burchell (talk • contribs) 10:37, 16 August 2009
 * Not sure why you felt the need to do this - the standard practice is to tag unsourced material (as has already been done), rather than to move it to the talk page. If you're concerned that it needs either sourcing or removing, feel free to research each item in turn, and remove any which you can find no evidence for. --McGeddon (talk) 10:04, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

My thoughts were, in view of recent reverts here, that simply removing it (as should be done - I tagged it a long time ago) would result in a quick revert putting it back in. Dumping it here for the time being might avoid that - or might not. Regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 10:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Material
From intro:

Its Welsh form is confined to the sea-coast parishes, and on the Norfolk coast, the creature is supposed to be amphibious, emerging from the sea by night.

According to some legends, if you see it three times, you are met with an untimely death.

From England:


 * The Drummer of Tedworth (modern Tidworth, in Wiltshire) sometimes manifested itself as a huge black dog.


 * One has been said to have been Corsham in Wiltshire on April 28th 2008.


 * Oldbury, in West Midlands in England, is said to have a Ghost Dog.


 * At Hadleigh in Essex, a story is told of a small group of children going up to Hadleigh Castle some time since the 1970s and seeing a large black dog with glowing eyes. The dog supposedly snarled and growled at the children, scaring them away. One of the friends who was on the way up to meet them recalled seeing them cycling away crying. Over the years the children who witnessed the dog began to die of fatal diseases.


 * In Waverton, Chester it is said that there is a spectre of a black dog that haunts the village and surrounding fields. The main village pub is named after "The Black Dog".

From Cornwall:


 * A black dog is said to appear in Penzance harbour as a foreteller of someone's death. The victim is the only person who can the see the dog. The dog is described as Labrador Retriever sized, but not actually of this breed.


 * Shony is a Cornish ghost-dog whose appearance heralded a storm.

From Latin America:


 * There were also recent reports of a huge black dog with flaming red eyes roaming the southeastern Brazil coast, haunting and scaring people. However, there were no reports of any kind of physical harm caused by it.

There is a folktale or legend in Costa Rica and some areas of Central America of a dog called "El Cadejos" also spelled and pronounced "Cadejo" (pronounced /kadehos/ or /kadexos/ (the "x" pronounced as in "don quixote" or /kadeho/ - /kadexo/)who is believed to be a man cursed because of his alcoholism. As the story goes, this young man would drink far too much and then come home late at night and insult, abuse and mistreat his elderly parents in different ways, until his mother got tired of his behavior, and with the help of her husband subdued the drunken son and cursed him into a dog using an incantation that varies depending on who tells the story, and condemned him to roam the earth and drag a pair of chains. Versions of the incantation are as follows: "Por tus malos habitos te maldigo, como un perro viviras, en tus cuatro patas has de andar, tras de ti tus cadenas has de arrastrar y ni al cielo ni al infierno podras entrar" translation: "for your nasty habits i curse you, you shall live like a dog, walk on your four paws, behind you your chains will drag, and you shall not enter heaven or hell" "Por levantar tu mano contra tus padres la gloria nunca veras, como un perro has de vivir y tus cadenas arrastrar, te maldigo hasta el fin de los dias y que tu castigo sea un ejemplo para quienes no temen a Dios" translation: "for raising a hand unto your parents you shall never see the glory, as a dog you shall live and you shall drag your chains. I curse you until the end of time and let your punishment be an example for all those who do not fear God" Other variations are spoken of, always mentioning the abuse the man gave his parents and his vices (alcohol specially, or lack of fear for God )and the fact that he will be turned into a black dog with dragging chains and roam the earth forever as an example. The dog is said to have a black coat and red (sometimes green) eyes that glow in the dark, it is also said to be as big as(or sometimes bigger than)a rottweiler, and it wears a thick metal or leather collar with long, thick, heavy chains attached to it(the chains are a symbol for the vices a man drags with him for the rest of his life). El Cadejos lurks in dark roads to attack drunks or drug addicts (no biting or killing, just chasing them and giving them a good scare), in hopes that they will be scared off of their bad habit, because the dog doesn't want another man to ruin his life like he did when he had his human form. There is another (less popular) version that claims that a young man tried to stop his father's drinking by scaring him using chains and barking like a dog while hiding in the bushes near his house when he came back drunk one night, the man was so scared that the son tried to apologize and explain, but his drinken father just said "Por asustarme y contradecirme "Cadejos" quedarás y a todos los borrachos del mundo en sus necesidades ayudarás". (translation: for scaring and contradicting me you will remain "Cadejos" and you shall for ever help all the drunks in the world with all their needs") or a similar incantation: "De cuatro patas andarás toda la vida" (translation: You shall walk on four paws all your life". This version can help explain why some "victims" do not fear the Cadejos but instead see him as a protective figure) Other traditions say that the Cadejos actually protects alcoholics and addicts, knowing through his own experience of all the dangers that this habit poses (mugging, falling into a ditch or cliff, street fights, etc), so he will walk next to or behind them, and when the "victim" turns to look, the dog disappears, but the chains dragging can still be heard. There are as many versions of this tale as CostaRicans, but most people agree on the large black dog with glowing eyes that drags chains and follows drunken man who walk alone at night, sightings of the dog have been "reported" (not officially) from the colonial times and continue until this day always by drunks or dug addicts who claim that "me salio el Cadejos" (translates to "the Cadejos crossed me"), there is even an idiomatic expression "que le paso, vio al Cadejos?" which translates loosely to "what happened, did you just see the Cadejos?" and is used as an equivalent to the english idiom "you look like you've just seen a ghost". Also, it may be noteworthy that the Cadejos will not chase women, children or well-behaved men who walk alone at night, but instead will make sure they get home safely, by growling at anyone who poses a threat for them, and warning them of dangers, like laying in the border of a ditch or cliff to keep good people from accidentally falling in, or barking at other potential dangers.186.4.1.7 (talk) 02:27, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * (no citations due to information coming from "popular knowledge" rather than a "source", basically this is a folktale passed on verbally, what is known as an "old wives tale" There is a reference in the Spanish Wikipedia that can be found here http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadejo, or you can also visit http://www.guiascostarica.com/mitos/mitos10.htm for more information.I also found an English Wikipedia article called "Cadejo" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadejo I would suggest a link is added in this article, as the Cadejos is a tale with many variations, and it is also described as a black dog with mystical origins)

From United States:


 * In the U.S., a twin set of black dogs is said to roam the country sides of north middle Tennessee near the county of Macon. Legend has it that two black puppies were adopted by a cruel farmer who was so evil that the Devil would not allow him to enter Hell, but gave him the job of hunting down unsuspecting travellers after the stroke of midnight.  Some stories state that death is quick; others say that death will fall days, months, or years (this last is considered a catch-all) after viewing the demonic beasts.  Others say that death may not follow at all, but something "bad" will happen to someone close to those who set eyes on the twin hounds. Lastly, some stories skip the evil farmer and claim the hound to have multiple heads and is, in reality, Cerberus, the hound who guards the gates of hell.  This story may have been made up to fit the satanic claims that some have made about the county.


 * The Black Dog of the Hanging Hills of Meriden, Connecticut is unique in that it does not take the guise of a large, fearsome hound. Instead, it appears as a small, sad black dog. The Black Dog of the Hanging Hills leaves no footprints and makes no sound, even when it appears to be barking happily or howling. It also appears to enjoy human company, somewhat ironically.  Seeing the Black Dog of the Hanging Hills once is supposedly good luck, twice is bad luck and three times means death.


 * Packs of black dogs with glowing yellow eyes are rumoured to prowl U.S. Route 666, slashing the tires of passing motorists with their sharp teeth.


 * Along Sweet Hollow Road on Long Island, New York, there is said to be a black dog apparition that walks on its hind legs and has glowing red eyes. Making eye contact with it is supposed to cause death within a month.


 * An urban legend surrounds an iron statue of a black dog that guards the grave of a little girl at the Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond, Virginia. Legend claims that the statue was once placed in front of a Richmond shop, and that the girl would pet and talk to the "dog" on her way to school. After the girl died of scarlet fever, the shop's owner gave the statue to her family, who placed it on the girl's gravesite. The iron dog is said to come alive if an outsider threatens to defile or damage the grave. The statue has also reportedly been discovered mysteriously pointing in different directions.


 * Two black dogs allegedly haunt US Route 97 between Madras and Sunriver, Oregon.

Simon Burchell (talk) 08:10, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

From In Fiction
 * One of the most famous black dogs in fiction is the Hound of the Baskervilles from the book of the same name by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. In the book, the villain uses the long-standing legend of a ghostly dog that haunts the Baskerville family in his plan to murder them.
 * In Russell Hoban's novel Riddley Walker (1980), Riddley's post-apocalyptic quest is initiated by a dog sacrifice and a folktale, "Why the Dog Won't Show its Eyes." Death dogs are important in the "Eusa" story that guides Riddley's quest, as is a companion black dog later in the quest.
 * In Welcome To The Jungle The First Dresden Files graphic novel, a Black Dog in summoned to hunt down and kill Harry.
 * In Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling, Harry comes across what he believes is a Grim. He is told that it is a powerful omen of death. Actually it is his god-father, Sirius Black, whose nickname is "Padfoot", and whose Animagus form is the huge black dog seen by Harry.
 * In the Patrick Swayze trucker movie Black Dog, the legend is updated for the motorized 20th century as a beast that is seen "when you've been on the road too long and pushing too hard. When you get greedy, it comes to take everything away from you."
 * In Goethe's Faust, the Devil Mephistopheles first appears to Faust in the form of a black poodle which follows him home through a field.
 * In Supernatural episode 2 "Wendigo" they mention the possibility of a black dog being the creature that is killing campers. The two later encounter hellhounds which appear as black dogs to those they hunt, but remain invisible to all others.
 * The Moddey Dhoo is one of the many psychopomp "guides" to appear in the webcomic Gunnerkrigg Court.
 * In Black Dogs by novelist Ian McEwan, a character encounters two black dogs that she believes to be evil incarnate.
 * Dracula transforms into a black dog to leap from from the boat to land when he arrives in Whitby.
 * In the movie No Country for Old Men the main character, Llewelyn Moss, comes across a stray black dog immediately before running into a botched heroin deal.
 * In the book Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson one of the pirates is called Black Dog. He is the first to threaten and harass Billy Bones. As soon as the unwelcome visitor is gone, Bones suffers a stroke. Also Jim Hawkins' father dies shortly after Black Dog's visit.
 * In the movie The Omen, the Antichrist is guarded and protected by black dogs.
 * The video game Devil May Cry has an enemy similar to black dogs, they are called Shadows.
 * In Susan Krinard's 'Lady Olivia Dowling' mystery series one of the main protagonists is a 'were'-Black Dog (Kit/Old Schuck)
 * In Eva Ibbotson's 1975 children's book The Great Ghost Rescue the main character, Humphrey the Horrible, rescues a neglected, stray Black Shuck
 * It's possible that the werewolves of An American Werewolf in London were based the stories of Black Dogs, due to the fact that both monsters were portrayed as four-legged beasts and were in the description of "rabid dog" and "some sort of mad dog".
 * In Alan Moore's 1996 novel Voice of the Fire, characters throughout Northhampton, England's history encounter black dogs (in one case, identified as a "shagfoal").
 * In Hellsing, the vampire Alucard has the ability to summon demonic black dogs.
 * Simon Burchell (talk) 11:21, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Barrow hound?
Cù Sìth literally means "barrow hound" But Cù means hound and... I was under the impression that Sìth was essentially a fairy, so it is a "fairy hound"? What would this mean about the Cait Sìth, would it then be a "barrow cat"? 74.243.14.11 (talk) 04:05, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That is what I thought too - I'll take it out, I'm pretty sure it is wrong. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 09:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move 31 October 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:32, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

– This page is by far the most viewed and significant for the lowercase spelling of "black dog", eclipsing the coin by a long shot. Per WP:DIFFCAPS, the disambiguation page should be moved to an alternate location, as almost all entries on it are capitalized. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:46, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Black dog (folklore) → Black dog
 * Black dog → Black Dog
 * Support per nom and WP:DIFFCAPS. Mdewman6 (talk) 19:55, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm not sure it's the case that the folklore black dog is the most common usage. It may be the most viewed page, but the usage of "black dog" for depression is pretty common. Perhaps an alternative would be to reorder the disambig page to put the folklore section at the top. I'd also like to see the depression usage closer to the top too, so people don't have to hunt so much. --Jahaza (talk) 02:59, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The question is whether people will type in "black dog" to search for depression instead of just, well, depression. We have to ask why people would, specifically, type in "black dog" in lowercase. This page is the most likely of targets. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:39, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * No, I disagree with this. The question isn't whether they'll type in "black dog" to search for depression, but whether they'll type in "black dog" to find out what someone is talking about and learn that they're talking about depression (or something else). Jahaza (talk) 18:12, 1 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose – Diffcaps doesn't say this is a good idea, just that it's sometimes done. Disambiguation is better. Dicklyon (talk) 01:17, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I agree with Jahaza that black dog is at least equally as likely to refer to depression as this topic. Jenks24 (talk) 11:51, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. No primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:19, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.