Talk:Blackpool Tramway

Bombardier Flexity 2
I read that Blackpool is the first customer for the new Bombardier Flexity 2 Tram. But this isn't mentioned in the article. -- 88.65.39.30 (talk) 10:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/rail-vehicles/light-rail-vehicles/flexity-2-tram-?docID=0901260d800a0a9b

http://www.newstix.de/index.php?session=835e63a01e00d58030fd518a231eeef1&site=search&startentry=0&entmsg=true&mid=10159&searchpattern=flexity

Rolling stock?
Perhaps a local could expand the article to tell us aobut the age, manufacturer and details of the rolling stock? -- Geo Swan 04:27, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This is something that will be addressed in the New WikiProject UK Trams - why don't you sign up? Bluegoblin7 08:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The original query is dated 2005... Blackpool_tramway Has since been added with sufficient information and photos a year ago. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 10:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I know this, but I still think it needs expanding futher. Also, some of the trams are also used at the NTM, and the article should reflect this. There are also ex-trams that have been missed off. And Captain Scarlet - please STOP CRITICISING EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS PROJECT!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bluegoblin7 (talk • contribs).
 * I don't remember neither shouting nor criticising the project. If you have information valuable to the artricle, you're encouraged to add it to the article. Not all trams are featured on Blackpool_tramway but then again this is a long process that involves research and time. Your reply had little to do with the original query which, due to the date it was posted, is absolutely off topic and synonymous with advertising. Instead of shouting (symbolised by the use of capital letters) maybe you could work towards fulfilling the original query, something I began doing? I did not answer with intent to undermine your project but to answer the question that was originally asked; don't take it personally. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 12:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello

I am new to this; I hope that my posting a suggestion in this way is not the wrong way to do things. Under 'tramcar fleet', I notice that the 'balloon cars' are said to have a top speed of 43 mph / 70kph, just like the new cars. I don't think that's right! The new cars have motors sufficiently powerfull to allow them to reach that speed and, I should imagine, electronic control that limits the speed to this value. In contrast, the first generation Balloons, with classic DC control, have no well defined top speed. Rather, they have a 'balancing speed' at which the tractive effort of motors balances the frictional 'rolling resistance' from the track, the air and so on. With the exception of 'Coronations', Blackpool cars were always noticeably under-powered in comparison with other British tramways. In reality, their two 55hp motors could scarcely attain a balancing speed of 25-30 mph. (Some years ago, a visiting four-motor 140hp Glasgow Coronation reached 35-40.) But the point is that all these older cars with simple DC series motors don't really have a 'top speed'. Certainly not one given to two decimal places (43 mph!). It's nonsense! May I suggest appropriate changes to the text?

Again, apologies if I haven't followed procedure here; I'm new to this. And I can't find tildes! I write in good faith.

Regards,

Bill  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.170.62 (talk) 23:03, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Alan Bradley
No mention of Bradley being killed by a Blackpool tram in Coronation Street? That will never do! - Dudesleeper 12:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Who's Bradley? Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 13:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Alan Bradley. - Dudesleeper 14:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I was expecting someone famous, notable. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 17:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * [Yawn]. - Dudesleeper 17:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Section Info right or wrong
some info about the balloon cars appears to be wrong according to another website, since this articles info is not referenced I shall correct it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.0.108.223 (talk) 22:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * As you haven't as yet amended it, just wondering what website you are referring to when you say "another website"? ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 23:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... from what I can see, comparing my records with several websites and this info, this is the most comprehensive of the lot considering the various copyright laws etc!
 * I better get expanding some others... now where to start? I know... Toastracks!
 *  BG  7   19:51, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Various...
Hello all,

A few things:


 * 1) Does anyone have any objections to me re-organising the page sections a bit, and also splitting the Balloon and Millenium sections, as technically they are different trams.
 * 2) Does anyone mind me including a section such as Past Tramcars, which would include things such as the Standards, Pantos, Toastracks, OMOs etc? This would also see a split to Current Stock, Future Stock (the LRVs), Heritage Stock (Bolton 66 etc) and Illuminations Stock, or similar.
 * 3) Finally, not related to the article, does anyone know if the tramway will be open for the next 2 and a half weeks-ish? I heard it was going to reclose after the easter period, but I gather that the works, especially as far as Cabin, have been completed and checked ahead of schedule. I have an answer to this! (edited 26/03/08)

Thanks,

 BG  7   19:46, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Further to the above, i'll start it at User:Bluegoblin7/Sandbox3 until theres some input here! If i don't get any i'll presume it's ok to go ahead! Also, i'm going to do a bit of expansion and re-organisation of the page, as I reckon it could be a GA/A and potentially an FA!
 * Finally, in addition to the Heritage Tramcars, does anyone object to Bolton 66, Sheffield 513, the Rocket, the Frigate etc each having their own sub-section?
 * Thanks,
 *  BG  7   16:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion
I have a suggestion to make about the formatting of the Depot and Fleet sections. Although lists are generally deprecated, there are places where it's appropriate to use them, and I think these two sections are such places. I've modified the Depot section to show what I mean. Using this embedded list format has the additional benefit of reducing the clutter in the TOC, something that was commented on in the peer review. (See embedded lists.) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 15:59, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

T
Would anyone object if i capitalise the T in tramway as it is its name? Simply south (talk) 18:46, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It Looks like no one is objecting —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.67.231.6 (talk) 14:47, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The 't' should be capitalised as this is the proper name for the line, just like the "West Coast Main Line" is capitalised instead of the "West Coast Main line" Nathan_A_RF (talk) 7:29, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Diagram direction
I think it might be worth experimenting with turning the map diagram the other way up. The route on the ground is pretty much North–South in layout. When I first glanced at the map it took a bit of looking at to realise that Fleetwood had been placed at the bottom! (Therefore placing things like the depot, on the "wrong" side). Would be worth switching the map diagram around? —Sladen (talk) 13:21, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm... I think we should see what it looks like ;). I'll have a go in a bit and whack it on here. I'm sure I recently saw an actual diagram though, possibly on Commons, that was quite a bit more detailed.
 * Also, what colour should it be? It's not really a Metro (Although it is branded "Metro Coastlines"!) due to mainly the age (but that's not that much of an argument!) but it's not quite a railway either! Crich use red, but that's not to say it can't be changed. Perhaps something to bring up at WT:UKTrams?
 *  B  G  7even   18:41, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Any chance that we could list all the stops, yes it would be long but several places are mentioned on this page that arnt in the diagram. --83.105.97.218 (talk) 01:53, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Rename this page as Blackpool Tramway?
<div class="boilerplate metadata discussion-archived" style="background-color: #f5f3ef; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


 * Rename this page as Blackpool Tramway? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:43, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope. Oppose. It's not a name or anything like that, so would not fit in with WP's naming policy. It's about the tramway in Blackpool, not a business called Blackpool Tramway.
 * Thanks,  B  G 7even  11:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I just assumed nobody objected seeing as i proposed capitalisation in September and no one commented. See two topics above. I'll put this through the proper channels to generate a more thorough discussion. Simply south (talk) 12:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I was proposing this as it seemed the common name and the official name with the Capital T. Simply south (talk) 12:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, did you? Oops... I should have commented ;).
 * No, i'm against a move because like I said, it's not a common or official name. It's Blackpool Transport, Metro Coastlines or the tramway in Blackpool. As I said, there's no Blackpool Tramway ;) (The current one also runs outside of Blackpool, and is an almagamation of the Blackpool Corporation and the Blackpool and Fleetwood Tramroad, amongst others. Unless Tramway has just become a name, it would not make sense for it to be capitalised as it is not a name for the tramway nor is it in any way official. "tramway" is also inline with WP naming policy (this argument came up at WT:TUK a while back... i'll dig it up!).
 * Cheers,
 *  B  G 7even  15:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Image copyright problem with File:Metro Coastlines logo.png
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Double-deck exclusivity
I've noticed that the last sentence of the introduction states this:

It is also one of only three operational tramways in the world that operates using double-deck tram systems, the other two places being Hong Kong and Alexandria in Egypt

I know for a fact that the Birkenhead Heritage Tramway also uses double-deckers and there might be other tramways that have not been mentioned that do the same.

The reference at the end of the sentence leads to this newspaper article which gives no information whatsoever about using double-deck trams.

I will edit the sentence, remove this reference and replace it with the citation needed template.

Does anyone have a list of double-decker tramways which could be incorporated into the sentence or are there even any other double-decker tramways in existence?

Regards, Raywil (talk) 02:04, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There are many museum lines that use double deck tramcars. The three systems mentioned are still using them in daily public service, which is the difference here. Mjroots (talk) 20:50, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah right, I get it now. Perhaps this could be made clearer in the sentence to avoid confusion.  I don't have time to improve it now, but will put it on my to-do list.  By all means, do it yourself though if you have the time to. Raywil (talk) 03:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

They had Preston McGuire bogies with ft 4 in wheelbase and 30in diameter wheels
I hope this is not a repeat, but there seems to be a numeral missing (fotoguzzi) 131.252.208.28 (talk) 11:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)


 * It was changed by a bot in 2008 (see ) - I undid this and other similar changes made in that edit. These sections still lack references, so I can't verify whether they were correct when originally added. 81.156.103.199 (talk) 20:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Tramcars
Would it be better to replace the specifications tables with Infobox tram? Mjroots (talk) 06:30, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Jolly good idea. Peter Horn User talk 00:30, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Track diagram is wrong.
Someone seems to have used the wrong symbols on the track diagram. The Blackpool Tramway is still very much in use, but the light blue symbols indicate that the whole system has been closed. 109.153.242.10 (talk) 14:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Deliberately so, see the edit summary for . - David Biddulph (talk) 18:18, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Was it really worth going to the trouble of changing the diagram for such a relatively short closure? 109.153.242.10 (talk) 13:28, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Is the tramway currently operational or not?
This is unclear from the article. But, on the official website it says "Tramway Closed from Monday 7 November 2011 .... The tramway is now closed until Easter 2012" ( and ).
 * Under "The network" it states "The tramway today runs from Starr Gate in Blackpool to the Ferry Terminus in Fleetwood.".
 * Under "Blackpool tramway today" it then says "The tramway resurfacing works and construction of a tram shed at Starr Gate meant no trams operated south of the Pleasure Beach from 2009 until the new trams enter service, scheduled for Easter 2012, and track work at Cleveleys halted services north of Little Bispham.", which implies the central section is running but not the two ends. This sentence is doubly confusing because it is in the past tense, e.g. "meant no trams".

So is this actually an operational public transport service or not? TiffaF (talk) 16:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It was closed for refurbishment and reopened at Easter 2012. TerriersFan (talk) 01:29, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

The network
The routes and timetables in the table in this section have no resemblance to those on the official site. See here and follow Tramway > Timetables. This shows just one route in each direction. Any thoughts, please? TerriersFan (talk) 01:29, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Maps
I cleared situation with maps. I removed old schematic PNG map (it problem was that it was not keeping scale, and does not have stops number but intersections which was misleading and has no background). I added two SVG maps - one for entire network, and one focusing on dismantled branches showing city of Blackpool. In case of any comments about maps please let me know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkan997 (talk • contribs) 09:23, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Could you combine the dismantled routes map onto the stations map, at the moment its still a little duplicating of information to have the schematic map, geographic map and former geographic map in short sucession and the former geographic map is a bit sparse in detail. WatcherZero (talk) 13:43, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for suggestion, I thinked about this but the dismantled network is very small compared to entire coastal way (the lines are marked in gray on the entire map) so I think that separate map is better solution, especially I plan to add some text labels to terminus of dismantled routes map (see discussion below) . Maybe it will good idea to put this two map side-by-side.--Jkan997 (talk) 14:06, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Dismantled railway map
Hi I created map of dismantled tramway network and I will be glad to add some details -


 * does somebody know if on end of any dismantled route was a loop ?
 * What was the name of ends ?
 * Was all junctions was of dismantled lines double sided (so tramway was able to turn in any way) ?

--Jkan997 (talk) 09:32, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Historic tram types
This is an excellent article - thanks to all.

One area that is not covered is that of the earliest vehicles, those before the ones that currently serve in the heritage fleet. The (Shrewsbury patent) Dreadnought and the Toastracks come to mind. Anyone who knows more than I do willing to have a go? And should it be a new section or a linked article - this page is getting quite long. Might be difficult getting copyright-free photos, but hopefully one of the enthusiast societies might be generous. Thanks in hope! .John M Brear (talk) 20:46, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * There are many images of the older trams at commons including the Dreadnoughts and the Toastracks, I'm thinking that the Tramcar fleet is now needing a separate article, but don't feel I know enough to do it myself

Tram stop articles nominated for deletion
Articles about all the tram stops served by Blackpool tramway have been nominated for deletion. See Articles for deletion/Starr Gate tram stop (Blackpool Tram) for the discussion about Starr Gate stop and Articles for deletion/Little Bispham tram stop (Blackpool) for the discussion about all the other stops. Thryduulf (talk) 13:09, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Infobox
I've upgraded this article's infobox to Infobox tram network. Someone knowledgeable may wish to use that template's historic parameters to add details for the former extent of the network. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:53, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

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Article renaming as Blackpool Tramway
"This article is about the Blackpool Tramway". "This article is about the tramway in Blackpool". Both of those sentences are referring to the same thing, except the first is the name of the tramway in question and the second is describing the tramway. The first is capitalised appropriately, such like other railway lines and tramways (e.g. North London Line, Edinburgh Trams, East Coast Main Line, Docklands Light Railway etc.). Even in other countries, the tramways are displayed with capitals (e.g. Vinnytsia Tramway, Daugavpils Satiksme, Okayama Electric Tramway, Gmunden Tramway etc.). Please could I move the page to the appropriate title? Nathan_A_RF —Preceding undated comment added 16:52, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, I have acquired the recent "RAIL" magazine with the latest news and updates on the railways, and inside is an article about light railways referring to the Blackpool Tramway many times. Nathan_A_RF —Preceding undated comment added 19:06, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

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Tram stop page redirects
I should think that the tram stops (nearly all being red links) should be redirected all to the page at "List of Blackpool Tramway tram stops". This would group all the stops on one page and avoid having a separate page for each individual and similar stops. Does anyone agree? (I do not know how to do this effectively, so if this is a good idea, someone else would have to do it) Nathan A RF (talk) 21:48, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Didn't we already do that? See Articles for deletion/Little Bispham tram stop (Blackpool). -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 18:38, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry, I didn't know that the articles were all labelled with "(Blackpool)" for some reason, so that's why I couldn't find them. Nathan A RF (talk) 23:16, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

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Heritage Tram Fleet
Over time, the 'tramcar fleet' section is becoming increasingly bloated. Recent edits have introduced details about individual tramcars, as well as comprehensive details regarding each car type. Perhaps it is time to consider moving some of this information to a new article, such as Blackpool Tramway Tramcar Fleet or perhaps even a merger with the existing Flexity 2 (Blackpool) page to create a more general fleet article. Beeperbeeper5 (talk) 17:34, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree, this is well overdue. And nobody has objected.  So I have now created Blackpool Heritage Trams using the 'heritage' material from the main article, which I've removed and summarised, and created a link to the new page. Carbonix (talk) 09:58, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Fares
Exact fares have been removed for the article. Wikipedia isn't a travel guide and is not the place to go to find out how much the tram costs. References have been left to remain to provide an encyclopedic context to ticketing, the fares can still be accessed through these. Ajf773 (talk) 19:59, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, fares are revised periodically; we do not have the obligation to ensure that updates are promptly applied. We are not in the business of providing false information. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 22:32, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:06, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Trams Blackpool-Fleetwood.svg