Talk:Bleach (manga)/Archive 5

AfD on List of Bleach story arcs
Despite the long-standing consensus against it, a user just created the article List of Bleach story arcs to hold Bleach plot summary. I have nominated it for deletion. Please express your opinions there. --tjstrf talk 08:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Just one comment: while I previously thought that the arc titles were unable to be attributed, they are used on the DVDs (at least in Japan), and therefore do have some basis in fact. Dekimasu よ! 02:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oy. Thanx for letting me know about this one. I also don't see much of a point to give a detailed summary of a pretty straight forward anime like this. Though there are a few that leave me going "WTF just happend?", bleach isn't one of them. -Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 03:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Info on Title Songs
Hey all, I was wondering where that should be put, the media article, or the main article? Just H 23:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Bleach media and materials –Gunslinger47 00:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Shinigami
Why is every practically every single mention of shinigami on the page in italics when every single other page doesn't follow this standard? Sephiroth BCR 03:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please see Talk:Bleach (manga) above, as well as a few notes on the talk page above that. Since that time I did ask for clarification at WP:MOS-JP as well, and it appears that the wording that will enter the Japanese MOS is that we should follow the main manual of style, which mandates italics. If there are any cases on the page now of "shinigami" (without italics), please let me know. Dekimasu よ! 03:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no problem if that's the accepted policy. I'm merely pointing to basically every other mention of shinigami in character articles, conceptual articles (zanpakutō, kidō, etc.), and other Bleach articles that does not use shinigami in italics. The consistency simply seems odd. Sephiroth BCR 06:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It's probably because I'm the person who was strongly in favor of putting the italics in place here, and I only regularly edit three or four other Bleach-related articles. I believe they should be italicized in those articles too, as should zanpakutō and ''kidō. Dekimasu よ! 06:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I find it visually disruptive to the extreme. But then, I also put commas outside of quotation marks, so whatever. --tjstrf talk 06:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Opinions please
I don't know how I found it, but I happened to stumble across List of Bleach cast members. I didn't even know that it existed until just five minutes ago. Am I the only one who thinks the list is pointless and should be redirected or deleted? Should we work to improve it instead of redirecting/deleting it? // Decaimiento  Poético  17:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know its purpose, but it was created by the CanisRufus bot. Presumably there was a purpose.  You might want to ask the bot's designer. –Gunslinger47 18:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * That CanisRufus bot has been taking away categories like "Bleach Cast Members", "Fullmetal Alchemist Cast Members", "Naruto Cast Members" and so on from all the voice actors/seiyuu that I watch. I really would like to know why he feels the need to remove those categories just to make a page which is totally unneeded. We already state on the character articles who does the voices, so it's just another redundant page.  Jezebel Parks 20:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, about that. There was a mass CfD a while back that decided against having any more voice actors by series categories since they were cluttering the pages of the voice actors. I probably should've mentioned this earlier since I knew, but I spaced it out. As for the list, I'll redirect it to the main media and materials page. --tjstrf talk 21:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Hōgyoku vs Orb of Distortion
Obligatory topic start in the hopes that something is accomplished.

Which should be used? The latter is commonly used now. I personally find it more understandable when the term's in English. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:46, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Stay with Orb of Distortion until we find out what the English dub uses. If they went with the Japanese version, then switch to Hōgyoku. --tjstrf talk 01:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * There is precedent on Bleach articles for using the Japanese terms instead of the English (shinigami, kidō, etc.). We want to be consistent in these things, so changing to/using the English would mean changing instances of "shinigami" to "death god", and "kidō" to "demon arts", among other changes, and innumerable edits to pretty much every article relating to the Bleach universe to change all of them. Hasn't the English manga reached the point where the item in question is talked about? And does the English manga consistently use the Japanese terms like shinigami and kidō?


 * Personally, it doesn't much matter to me which we use, as long as it's consistent across all relevant terms and articles. Nique talk 01:59, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The anime's actually better about preserving terms. The manga changes them more often, such as shinigami and zanpakuto. If the anime goes with Hōgyoku, I'd be fine with changing it, but for the moment Orb of Distortion is slightly less confusing. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The entire point of translating terms is to make them more understandable to English readers. If the translations don't do a good job of informing (as in death god), or even if they hamper understanding (as in demonic arts) then I definitely favor the original Japanese terms.  How that applies to the current situation, I'm undecided. –Gunslinger47 02:19, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The translated and untranslated terms are about equal there imo. The literal meaning of "crumbling jewel" is actually the most accurate representation of what it does in English. Not in the normal sense of crumbling, where it would mean "A jewel that is disintegrating", but in the alternate sense where it would mean "A jewel that disintegrates/causes disintegration". It disintegrates the barrier between hollow and shinigami. --tjstrf talk 02:32, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * As you already know, I'm for Hōgyoku. Not because I prefer it, but for consistency and a precise reason. On every page, we rightly use "shinigami", "zanpakutō", "kidō", "bankai" etc. and to me Hōgyoku it's not different. They aren't japanese words, but Bleach specific keywords. Lord Air 02:30, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Shikai and bankai are written initial and final release, actually. --tjstrf talk 02:32, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ow, you are right. Thanks for pointing that out, I was under the impression that "Bankai" was used somewhere. Anyway, that's another reason to make things clear and consistent. We should translate every one of them, or none.Lord Air 02:50, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * And the same argument, can be used with spanish keywords in Bleach. If we use "Espada", why we don't use "Resurrección" instead of "Arrancar release" ?Lord Air 02:50, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I personally just use English equivalents when the Spanish terms are so close in pronunciation. Resurrection.  Negation.  Vast Lord.  Etc. –Gunslinger47 04:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

As many editors here know, I'm staunchly in favour of using purely English terms for everything. However, here are some points to consider (from/for both sides of the argument):
 * Someone said there is a precedent of using Japanese terms on Wikipedia. In fact, there is no such precedent. Shinigami was used because of a straw poll conducted a long time ago. Demon arts, and not kidō, was used until very recently. Same with initial and final release.
 * There is a guideline on Wikipedia to use the most common term. Usuaully that is the Japanese term at the moment, but that is slowly going to change with the English dub progressing. Except for Japanese terms which the English dub uses. This is precisely why "demon arts" was changed to kidō - with the English dub using this term already, there is no reasonable chance that "demon arts" will ever become the most common form. However, this does not apply to the term soul reaper/shinigami.
 * When using Japanese terms, there is a guideline on Wikipedia to always use italics. This is fairly inconvenient.
 * English terms are understandable to an audience that does not consist only of existing Bleach fans.
 * Consistency here is a relative term. You can, for example, use Japanese-only terms for consistency within Wikipedia, but then you wouldn't be consistent with, say, the English dub, and therefore (at least eventually) likely violate the guideline of preferring the most common term. Also you'd be violating the guideline saying to prefer the English term when possible.
 * On the other hand, most common is not always correct/official. This is one reason why many supported using shinigami over "soul reaper" in the beginning. Soul reaper doesn't explain anything. However, correctness is important. That's why it's Soifon, not Soi Fong (the most common version). By the way we have yet to see what the English dub makes of her name.
 * If we are to go for correctness, in combination with following Wikipedia's guidelines of using the English term if possible, you'd want to look at the English version of the manga, which translates all terms. There you will not see things like zanpakutō, kidō and shinigami. This is incidentally the system I support. However, many oppose it on the grounds that it's very difficult to come up with an accurate translation of certain terms, such as hōgyoku.

Please consider all these points (and more which I probably forgot) before forming a final opinion. Unfortunatly this will probably be solved with a straw poll in the end. One reason that's bad is that I have noticed a trend where many anime 'otakus' who know absolutely no Japanese (except words like kawaii and yarō - a level above the usual arigatō and sayōnara) support using all-Japanese terms. I'm not talking only about Bleach and only about Wikipedia, so please don't take offense in what I said (those who support using all-Japanese). This cannot be good. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 13:53, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't say on Wikipedia as a whole, I said within Bleach articles, since we do use shinigami and kidō, among others. Just to set that straight. >.> Nique talk 19:21, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying, although even so, there is no such precedent. We used demons arts until recently and all the other terms I outlined. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 19:38, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * On the point Ynhockey made about the English version of the manga "which translates all terms." I just got finished perusing my VIZ Media official Manga (I currently have all 18 volumes of the English version currently out) and the only "Bleach" word (i.e. zanpakutō, kidô, shunpō, hakuda, etc.) that was translated was shinigami to Soul Reaper.  Really not sure why they picked that one to translate and left all the others, but anyhoo...  So I'm not sure what exactly he's talking about, but I'd love to find out... Ichigo1969 07:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't have the English version, but from what I heard from numerous sources, they translated nearly everything. But it would be weird anyway if they translated like you said (why use a circumflex on kidō? Why is it shunpō when it should be just shunpo?) Are you sure you have the right version? And if so, can you scan/photograph a couple odd pages with terms so that we can see? This would be very interesting. Thanks, Ynhockey (Talk) 17:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I like having the Japanese terms, but I insist on having a glossary. And if I term does not have its own article then you link the term to the glossary. And if the term's page doesn't include in the lead both Japanese and English terms then I just include it. This way, in my opinion at least, helps keep Japanese roots, and make the series more understandable if you watch the subs without being terribly confusing to the English-speaking, dub-watching fans.--88wolfmaster 22:48, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I would support a glossary on a Bleach information site, as it may be the easiest way to get people to understand terms, but this is non-encyclopedia. Maybe it's better fit for WikiBooks. But anyway, most terms are explained in depth on at least one page. We just need to link to that page. For example, as it stands now, Orb of Distortion should link to Kisuke Urahara#Inventions. How many such links do you see? I think that is one of our main problems. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 00:14, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Release
I beleive that there should be an article in the Zanpakutō about the release stages (i dont mean about what there like but a list of characters that know HOW to do them and a list ((or redirect)) about what there like. I dont think I am the only one who would aprove of this. (if there is one already can someone give me a redirect >.> ) so if anyone else thinks this would be a good idea can you add to this!! Dark reaper6789 20:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Zanpakutō does that. If it doesn't then I'm not sure what you asking. Gdo01 20:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I ment like how there is a List of fictional characters who can heal make a list of people who can use there release, not describe what a "release" is Dark reaper6789 21:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The Zanpakutō article already has that under "Zanpakutō by character". It's as simple as doing Ctrl + F and looking for "Initial release" and "Final release". ~SnapperTo 21:42, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

i know that but there should be a list that links to that...instead of looking for EVERY soul reaper who can use theres one-by-one untill you find one... Dark reaper6789 17:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC) ::nevermind i found one ^^ Dark reaper6789 17:20, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Zanpakutō - should it be italicized?
Since we italicize shinigami, kidō, etc., should zanpakutō be italicized as well? It's a Japanese term, and most Japanese terms are usually in italics. Sorry to ask such a stupid question, it's just that I saw instances where it was italicized and others where it wasn't while looking through the Bleach articles. // Decaimiento  Poético  01:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It should. It's no different from shinigami or kido. Sephiroth BCR 01:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I guess I'll start italicizing then. I might as well, with all this free time. // Decaimiento  Poético  01:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Filipino dubbers
To the moderator, can you please update the dubbers in the character list. I know a few dubbers in the Philippines that dubs 5 of the main characters. Can you please update?

Ichigo - Marky Cielo, Rukiya - Yasmien Kurdi, Inoue - Nicole Anderson, Chad - Dion Ignacio, Uryu - Rainier Castillo.,

Tnx.

PS: the sentence pertaining to the showing of bleach in the philippines, is out-of-date. please change the tense of the sentence, tnx. I keep changing it but it comes back to where it was. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ja 1207 (talk • contribs) 15:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

And another thing, why is there no English dubber for Chad. I accidentally put its Filipino dubber as an English dubber. Pls. change
 * We aren't going to list every voice actor each character has. The "anime voices" template is for Japanese and English voice actors only, so those are the voice actors we're going to have on the pages. // Decaimiento  Poético  23:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Fiction noticeboard
A new noticeboard, Fiction noticeboard, has been created. - Peregrine Fisher 18:22, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks more like Wikiproject anti-anti-fancruft to me. Can't all that stuff go on the village pump, or WT:WAF? --tjstrf talk 07:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

After finally performing the irritating task of writing Fair Use Rationales for all the images in use on this page, I believe we are officially ready to pass the Good Article criteria. Nomination is underway, hopefully a reviewer will be along shortly. --tjstrf talk 21:39, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * A lot of changes were made since my last copyedit, so I tried to do some cleanup again. I think the media section needs work on the flow and it still would make sense to me to include more of the plot, but it is certainly improving. Dekimasu よ! 04:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It has about as much plot as can be included without drowning the rest of the article. The plot is still ongoing and may stretch for years more anyway, (this is, after all, endless fighting shonen #736,) so detailed plot isn't as useful as setting and characters when describing the general series anyway. --tjstrf talk 05:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I hope this will pass GA, but I have to admit that there's a large part of me that would rather see recommendations for improvement. Peer reviews are pretty spotty as far as the degree of input they get. Maybe we can list this for the WP:ANIME collaboration of the week again, or something like that. Dekimasu よ! 05:20, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the weekly project got killed after people realized that nobody but those who have read/watched a given series can really help much with the articles on it, so it didn't actually get much additional input for articles but created lots of extra paper pushing meta-work. More recommendations for improvement would be nice, but peer review is, as you said, spotty in its results. (Especially since from what I've seen most of the peer review types aren't particularly focused on pop culture articles anyway.)
 * By the way, since you suggested we include more plot, what parts of the plot are you recommending be added? --tjstrf talk 22:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Some comments from a non-reviwer :) Main characters section is completly missing references. Title (manga) is confusing as the article describes anime, too (and 3 out of 4 images are anime). The article scope is confusing, as 1) if it is only about manga, remove anime info and add info about manga chapters and translations 2) if it is about anime and manga, add info about manga AND anime 3) if it is about Bleach franchise in general, incorporate also info about games and such.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The main characters section is simply a brief summary of the linked articles, sourced to the manga series itself. No controversial information is there included and in-line referencing would simply make the text unreadable by putting a footnote after every word. Similar Good Articles have never been required to source brief character summaries, so this is not a concern.
 * As for the article name, we are at the correct title per naming conventions as the manga is the original material, so a title change would actually bring us out of standardization and endanger our chances of passing GA. Our scope is appropriate and in accordance with project guidelines as well, covering primarily the original media form and the derived media forms as an aside. Most manga articles have unique titles so this disambiguation style is not often required, but off the top of my head you could see Berserk (manga) for a similar instance of a manga article that also gives information about the derived media.
 * We in fact already provide all the information you have suggested, either on this page directly or in ancillary articles, giving them priority based on their relative importance to the subject. The manga is of prime importance, with the anime a close second (due to its being more popular than the manga), the OVAs, games, musical, etc. are of minor importance in contrast. I acknowledge that we are somewhat deficient in our coverage of the movie, but that will be swiftly rectified once it is available in any sort of English format. --tjstrf talk 20:03, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

GA-Pass

 * GA review (see here for criteria)

3b. Is this article about the franchise in general or is it about the manga specifically. If it is about the manga (which I am going to assume as per the article title) then major work is needed to focus the article. For example, the Bount section should be removed entirely. If it is about bleach in general it provides a good overview of the series, and deserves the GA status with just a little work. More citation is needed when sales statistic are used. Still well referenced in most places however so I did not fail it on that mark. Chad's arm needs citation also, I don't believe that it is metal.
 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
 * 1) It is stable.
 * 2) It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
 * a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
 * 1) Overall:
 * a Pass/Fail:
 * a Pass/Fail:
 * I am putting the review on hold. Let me know where this article is focused and I can re-review it using the appropriate criterion.

Cronholm144 20:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Congratulation on GA status, I looked at what I thought needed to be sourced and found it mentioned later in the article. Other than that, the passive tense is used a little too frequently and the prose could use some polish, but certainly within GA standards. Keep up the good work.Cronholm144 05:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

On criteria 3b (focus), the scope of the article is intended to be the manga series Bleach, its derived media, and franchise. The title may be slightly confusing, but it is the correct one and in accordance with the project guidelines on disambiguation because the franchise as a whole is based around a manga series.

I am unsure what you mean by more citation for sales statistics. Is the problem with the sources we have used, or are you requesting that we find more than one source per sales statistic?

If you have any additional questions, please contact me on my talk page or the Bleach talk page. --tjstrf talk 05:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I am guessing that it was a reference to the "36 million" figure in the article summary. The citation for it is in the media section. Dekimasu よ! 05:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * As relates to that, the new source for the 39 million figure appears to refer back to the source we were already using (the 2ch Jump log) as justification for that number, and the 2ch Jump log still lists the figure as 36 million. I am not sure we can consider the new source reliable, and it is certainly one step further removed from the actual sales data. I'd like to change the source and figure back, unless there are objections here. Dekimasu よ! 06:58, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm going to withdraw my objection. The 2ch Jump log is still showing a figure of 36 million, but that was last updated at the end of February, and since then it has extra data on volumes 26 and 27. It's clear that the new article synthesizes that information instead of just citing it outright, but since we're not the ones doing the synthesizing, I suppose that's okay. If the Jump log updates to a new number, I'll change the citation back, but if not, I'll leave it alone, and the current cite is in English, which is a plus. Dekimasu よ! 02:39, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Summary of archived standardization topics
I have just noticed this thing and it's IMO a very good addition to this talk page. However, there are two problems:
 * 1) We refer to "artificial souls" rather than "modified souls" in order to incorporate all manufactured souls. - I can't remember when we agreed on this, and the sentence doesn't really make sense. We actually do refer to modsouls as modified souls, and gigai as gigai. What does this sentence talk about?
 * 2) It was actually agreed that the citation format for individual chapter/page cases should stay simple, without volume ISBNs and such because not all chapters are in volumes, it's a bloody mess, and other reasons. This should be changed accordingly.

Hope these issues are resolved ASAP.

-- Ynhockey (Talk) 21:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds like #1 might be refering to the Character type section, where modsouls are under the artifical soul sub-header. –Gunslinger47 23:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think that was just for the purposes of this page, and came about as a result of Talk:Bleach (manga)/Archive 4. Perhaps. As for Ynhockey's second question, I think we need a full citation format (either citing the volumes or the relevant magazine issues until the volumes come out). It's possible to fix all of the citations on this page based on the individual volumes. That's something I've been intending to do but haven't gotten around to yet. Tjstrf had also suggested linking to the relevant part of the Bleach media and materials page as a way of getting around mentioning the ISBN numbers, I believe. Dekimasu よ! 02:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Linking to the Bleach media and materials page is a very good idea. ISBN numbers for every in-line citation we use would create a barely understandable mess. It's true that Wikipedia has certain policies, but we also need not forget that for the Bleach articles the audience is somewhat different, and a special adaptation is needed. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 04:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * (I actually meant List of Bleach chapters. But I agree. Dekimasu よ! 05:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC))

Ichigo's Description
The description starts with "The primary protagonist of Bleach, orange-haired high school freshman Ichigo Kurosaki is forced to become a substitute shinigami after unwittingly absorbing all of Rukia's powers." I want to know where this idea of 'orange-haired' came from. If that is orange, then what does yellow/blonde look like? Isn't it arguable that the title of the show is a result of his bleach-blonde hair? Just curious. I'm not trying to argue that that's the cause for the title; I'm just saying I feel this should be changed to blonde or yellow-haired because I don't see a hint of orange in there. -- Whoa2000 14:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The show would not seem to hold the same opinion, lest we ignore the numerous references to orange hair ("carrot-top", to name just one). Besides, it looks pretty orange to me. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 07:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty certain that it's supposed to specifically be strawberry blonde. This is a reference to both his name (ichigo 苺) and to the title (Bleach).  Strawberry blonde is the color black hair takes when bleached by peroxide. –Gunslinger47 07:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That makes a lot of sense. Should the article be changed to that then? (Including the link to that article?) ((Also, sorry I forgot to sign my name before.)) -- Whoa2000 14:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought that his hair is supposed to be naturally orange. As in not bleached by anything. And the manga also specifically states "orange" regarding his hair color (when giving out basic stats in the first chapter). Eellee 21:19, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It is naturally orange, but that doesn't stop the name being a reference to the normal method one would need to use to get hair that colour. --tjstrf talk 21:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * People gave Ichigo a hard time growing up because they thought he bleached his hair. –Gunslinger47 21:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Everyone seems to keep missing the fact that we have no clue why the show is called Bleach, a reference to the hair may be a coincidence for all we know. Until we know why, the "bleached hair" argument doesn't work. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 21:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * We do indeed have a clue, namely Ichigo's hair. We just don't have confirmation. So it's nothing we can put into the article, but if we're getting questioned about the name constantly on the talk page then there's nothing wrong with giving the reasonable guesses that have developed. --tjstrf talk 21:33, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Answering questions on the title yes, but using the hair-title reference for info in the article is different. We can't change the info on Ichigo's hair color to blonde because people reference the bleach title. Although I believe it is supposed to be strawberry blonde as his nickname is strawberry. But I believe in the first chapter or so of the manga it called it orange. Unless either the anime, manga or Kubo tell us the color it's supposed to be I think he should change it to something neutral (light colored or something similar). Yea, I'm starting to confuse myself here so ima shut up now. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 21:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, well I wasn't suggesting we do that. Agreed. --tjstrf talk 21:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

His hair color is orange. the manga clearly says "Ichigo "Strawberry Kurosaki: 15 years old Hair: Orange Eyes: Brown Occupation: High School Student" So that's the official verdict on his hair color according to the manga. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 21:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If that's the page I'm thinking of, Ichigo's hair is officially given as "orande". --tjstrf talk 21:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The Bleach genres
I think its fairly obvious, that both the manga and anime of Bleach have enough comedy to be labeled as comedy in the genres, as well as many elements of adventure (traveling to the soul society) and other credible story arcs that make it adventure. Therefore I propose that the genres Comedy and Adventure be added to the list of genres and that this article be listed in the comedy category.


 * I disagree. It contains no more of those elements than is common to all and sundry shonen series, and I dare say that after the initial arc has less comedy than most shonen do. Additionally, there are already more than enough categories at the bottom of this page without needing another 4 for comedy and adventure manga and anime.
 * On a side note, why do we use separate categories for manga and anime genres? They fall into the same classifications, so it would make more sense to just use Category:X-genre anime and manga like we do Category:Anime and manga locations and the like. I remember bringing it up on WT:MANGA, but the ensuing debate generated only a small amount of heat and no light. I should really take them all to WP:CFD for merging some time. --tjstrf talk 07:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. To me, at least, for an anime to be classified as "comedy", it has to focus mainly on that.  Take Excel Saga; it blatantly concentrates on comedy.  A prime example would be Lord of the Rings.  While it does contain some humorous moments throughout the films, I think we'd all agree that it isn't a comedy.  Bleach is the same way. Jezebel Parks 12:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * For something to be under the comedy genre it does not have to be pure comedy and nothing else, I have seen enough in the anime and read enough of the manga to see this as comedy, but that is not the whole point of Bleach, I simply think that it has ENOUGH comedy for it to be one of the genres. It also kind of annoys me to see every single database on anime and manga have comedy, adventure, and drama listed as some of the genres for Bleach, but then Wikipedia a database on just about everything to have only Action, Shonen, Supernatural as the genres.  I mean that just makes it seem so dull, granted it is excellent in all its forms(anime, manga, movie, video games), I would still like to see comedy and adventure as some of the genres for Bleach.


 * Shōnen: "Shōnen anime and manga is typically characterized by high-action, often humorous plots featuring male protagonists." Two genres in one. Why add redundancy? — Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:57, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Shonen anime all share certain common elements, as Someguy points out. The only reason we even need include action on the page is to clarify what emphasis it takes within the shonen genre. If this were Bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob.... then categorizing it as shonen and comedy would make sense. Supernatural is included because supernatural is not implied in shonen. --tjstrf talk 07:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The description of shonen states that they "often have humorous plots", not always. There are some shonen manga and anime with no hints of humor, not even comic relief moments that are often seen in many anime that are otherwise free of any comedic elements.  I still believe that comedy should be added as one of the genres, just to give better clarity of the content of the series in general.  You have given me plenty of reasons on why you refuse to acknowledge the comedy in Bleach, but  I can't see why this would not be labeled as an adventure, please give me more clarity on why not adventure, Oh great bearer of wisdom...


 * Per adventure, an adventure is a risky or dangerous endevour undertaken (at least partially) for the fun of it. Surprising as it may be, Bleach is not an adventure series, since the main characters are not off questing and fighting for the hell of it but rather primarily as part of their jobs or to save the world. If you wanted an adventure series, that would be One Piece, where the characters are off to find the eponymous treasure, or +Anima, where they're just journeying for the fun of it. Zombie Powder was an adventure series as well, but Bleach is not. (It would be, however, if it were written from the perspective of Zaraki Kenpachi.)


 * In short, while adventure nearly always entails action, an action series is only an adventure if the characters are in it for the fun. --tjstrf talk 08:06, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Also contrast Action film with Adventure film. Subtle as it may be in the actual content, there is a significant presentational difference. --tjstrf talk 08:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I will just end my part in this discussion by saying, that I trust ANN's(Anime News Network) genre description, and that I still view it as having comedy and adventure, and nothing you can say will change my mind. I must now take some time to enjoy that adventurous, funny yet serious, action packed, supernatural phenomenon otherwise known as Bleach.


 * Yes, by all means, enjoy your Shonen! However, that is not an excuse to start an edit war by continuing to add the genres after the discussion turned out being against your view. --tjstrf talk 08:36, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * We are woefully familiar with ANN. They take public contributions as well (after registration), just as we do.  If you trust what ANN says, then trust what we say. :p –Gunslinger47 18:50, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * ANN has the correct genres though and based on the content of something they have I agree with them. The other day I saw on the wikipedia page for Chobits that someone had put shoujo as one of the genres.  I don't know what you guys think about that but speaking from having experienced the anime and manga I must say that Chobits is the exact opposite of shoujo.


 * Consensus is against you. Let it go. Also, Chobits is not listed as shoujo. Nice try. Others removed it, despite your wordy attempts to get you way there. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:13, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I did not say Chobits was listed as Shoujo I said that someone added it themselves to the genre list for the wikipedia article.

I would say that Bleach does have enough for comedy, simply because I have seen enough in the anime and manga to be laughing my ass off plenty of times, not just a few times every now and then.


 * It's among the least funny shonen I've ever seen. You must still be in arc 1. --tjstrf talk 20:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Arc 1 counts for nothing then? I also seem to recall Renji as a Hippie later in the anime. You can't tell me that's still in arc 1.
 * When compared with the 75% of the series that has been released since then? Yes. Moral: never trust arc 1 of a story, most of the time it exists solely to introduce characters while the author figures out what they're doing. (Hippie Renji was in Sealed Sword Frenzy, btw.) --tjstrf talk 07:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler warnings: to use or not use?
Since I know not everyone watches the taskforce talk page, I'm crossposting here.

Basically, the guideline on spoiler warnings, WP:SW, has been rejected. The spoiler warning templates still exist, but their usage is currently determined solely by user discretion. I would like to collect opinions on what qualifies as a spoiler in Bleach-related articles, so that we can hopefully weather this policy flux without any editing disputes.

Please discuss at WT:BLEACH. --tjstrf talk 21:41, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You might also want to note Talk:Bleach (manga)/Archive 4. Dekimasu よ! 00:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, thank you, I remember that one. However, it was last year, and things have changed a bit since then. --tjstrf talk 00:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think most of it still applies. Some of it hasn't been aired in the anime until quite recently. And since most of it hasn't been aired in English yet, I think it should still remain in spoilers for those fans who come here only following the show in English. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 00:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Has the author explained the title?
I was hoping to find an explanation here of why the show is named Bleach. -rachells 66.30.3.0 00:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * He was drawing the manga and a thing of bleach fell on his head. Actually, I have no clue, I don't believe he's explained it. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 00:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It has never been formally explained. The common theory, however, is that it's named for Ichigo's bleached-looking hair, whose colour has always been an important visual element of the series. Since Kubo's a music nut, it's possibly also a reference to the Nirvana album of the same name.
 * So no definite answer, but a couple good guesses. --tjstrf talk 01:01, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Since when does bleached hair turn red? When Michael Jackson bleached himself it turned white instead of red. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 01:45, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * "Bleach reacts more readily with the dark eumelanin pigment than with the phaeomelanin, so some gold or red residual color may remain after lightening." It happens especially in Japan where many teens improperly bleach their hair. Gdo01 01:51, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Commented on earlier here: Talk:Bleach (manga)/Archive 5
 * As I said there: In Bleach, black and white have reversed symbolism. "To bleach" would figuratively mean a decent into darkness.  –Gunslinger47 01:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Where does it say black and white have reversed symbolism in the manga/anime? I've never heard that one before. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Shinigami outfits = black. Hollows, arrancar outfits, hollow masks = white. Gdo01 02:03, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Captain outfits = white. :P --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hollow Ichigo = white in every single way: bankai, clothing. Gdo01 02:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Most hallows are black except for their mask which is white btw. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * So where does Uryu "white pride" Ishida fall into this little system? --tjstrf talk 02:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. This white and black being reversed is speculation. There are many examples proving your theory wrong. It may be true in some cases, but until Kubo decides to let us in on the secret all we have are guesses. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I said white and black symbolism has been reversed or, at the very least, tampered with. I am not saying that all instances of white and all instances of black must have significance.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. :) –Gunslinger47 05:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd like to discuss this further and explain my theories on why Kubo made captains wear white (Ichigo v. Kuchiki / protagonist v. antagonist / black v. white) but as I am fond of reminding others, this is not a forum. ^_^ I just wanted to give Rachells something to think about by mentioning it, lacking any explicit answers.  –Gunslinger47 05:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Revision count
IT'S OVER FIVE THOUSAND!!!

Sorry, just had to say that. :) --tjstrf talk 06:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * lol. Remind us when IT'S OVAR NINE THOUSAND!!! Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * 5,000 is the limit for a single page view, so you can check for 5k, 10k, 15k, etc. but anything in between is hard to pin down. Hopefully we'll be a featured article by the time our revision count matches Ichigo's power level though. --tjstrf talk 06:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

There's an excellent revision counter here, however, it's broken on many articles including this one, I think it's because it caches some data. But usually it's accurate. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 10:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Contains Japanese text
I am not sure that I agree with the addition of Template:Contains Japanese text to this article. All of the Japanese on this page is inside nihongo templates, with their helpful little question mark. In the TfD discussion for this template, which could easily have been closed as a delete (I voted keep), there were a lot of voices in favor of keeping its use to a minimum. I argued that it should be saved for use in articles with large blocks of Japanese text, like waka, and other editors argued that it's unnecessary metadata. If possible, I'd like to take the template back out of this one. Dekimasu よ! 08:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * If you insist, then fine, though I'd prefer keeping it in since that seems to be the de facto standard among the higher quality anime and manga articles. Every other WP:FA or WP:GA page in the project that I've seen uses them.
 * It's probably just as useful as that Wikiquote link anyway. Does Wikiquote even have rules for inclusion or do people just toss in every line they think sounded cool? --tjstrf talk 08:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Sentences
This article has come a long way, so good job to all involved. There is a small contraction, one part of the article says "Ichigo unintentionally absorbs almost all of Rukia's powers" and then later it says "after unwittingly absorbing all of Rukia's powers". There are sentences that need slight rewording like "conflicting loyalties between his job and Rukia, with whom he grew up" could maybe be "Rukia, with whom he was childhood friends with" just to sound more formal? What do others think about these two points? --Squilibob 13:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Chad's voice
Apparently, there's been some small edit warring on Chad's English voice actor. I was thinking, can't we just leave his japanese seiyū there, without his english voice actor? I'll (and everyone else) be satisified when it's been confirmed and properly cited that Jamieson Price is the real voice actor. I haven't found it on any website yet. Peace, The Hippie talk 22:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that it is him, also, shouln't Jamieson Price's page be updated to include Chad as one of his roles.

Shinigami vs Plus
Given that being a Shinigami appears to be no more than an occupation for plusses with significant spiritual pressure. I think that section should be merged with the plus section. As you don't need to be of the shinigami occupation to be a plus with either a Zanpakuto, or kidou skills as shown by Zaraki, Ikkaku, Yumichika, Ganju and Kukaku Shiba. Bushido Brown 01:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Shinigami are exceptional plusses, however, and are far more prominently featured than plusses. They should definitely remain separated. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 01:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You can't divorce Shinigami from the plusses and exceptional plusses who aren't shinigami can potentially fight equally or surpass certain shinigami. Zaraki wasnt a shinigami when he beat the previous captain of the 11th division. Bushido Brown 10:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That is incorrect, pluses and shinigami are separate. In order for a soul to be a shinigami, they must have a particular type of soul and a zanpakuto. The existence of Chad and Orihime, plus souls that have powers and most certainly are not shinigami, additionally disproves this. --tjstrf talk 02:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Chad, Orihime and the Quincies dont factor into the equation because they are still living human beings and are not defined as plusses ie their chains of fate still connect them to their original bodies. Again given that all Shinigami are plusses I have to say those sections should be merged perhaps make a mention that most exceptional plusses are in the shinigami occupation however Leaving them unmerged would be like splitting the List_of_Dragon_Ball_characters into Saiyans and Super Saiyans I mean really would that make any sense? Bushido Brown 10:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * All normal human souls are pluses, connected to their body or not. Not all human souls possess shinigami potential. Your opinion here has no basis in series canon and is pure speculation, and cannot be included as a result. --tjstrf talk 16:47, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * To expand on that, a shinigami is no more a plus than a hollow is. A shinigami or a hollow represents the transformation of a regular soul into a specialized one, the former requiring the spirit to actually pass on (minus Ichigo). Pluses are only those Earth-bound souls without a body. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:43, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Not "minus Ichigo", Ichigo is as dead as every other shinigami. His original powers were transferred (however that worked... lousy plothole ridden first arc) from Rukia, who was dead, and Tessai killed him at the beginning of his training with Urahara. (See episode 17, "Ichigo Dies!", or its corresponding manga chapter.) The only difference is that he reanimates his original body rather than a normal gigai when he wants to be material. --tjstrf talk 22:51, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * IIRC, Ichigo was never killed by Tessai... Tessai just severed his chain of fate, which linked him to his corporeal body. Ichigo had to develop shinigami powers in order to return to that body. At least, thats how I interpreted it... -- Ghost Stalker  (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 22:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Severed chain of fate = thou art dead. --tjstrf talk 23:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Still, most don't become shinigami with that chain in their chest. Ichigo's a unique case where shinigami are concerned. Went from human to shinigami without the pesky passing on to Soul Society. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:22, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * They normally get stamped and packaged over to SS, sure, but that's because that's where the traditional academy is at. There's no difference between plus souls on earth and plus souls in SS except that discontent souls on earth are at risk for becoming a hollow.
 * Incidentally, we know nothing about how they train souls to become shinigami in SS. We can guess that they probably aren't tossed into a pit and told they have 3 days to get out or become a hollow, but since shinigami powers are stated to develop best in extreme cases it's possible that Ichigo's training wasn't too special there either, with normal shinigami also only meeting their sword spirits for the first time when they are close to death. --tjstrf talk 23:32, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I got the impression from flashbacks that regular shinigami training is decidedly less volatile than Ichigo's, though they may be leaving something important out. As for SS plus vs human-world plus, there's got to be some factor that straightens them out in Soul Society. No chain and no degradation risk there. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You'll notice most shinigami also aren't required to pull out their own zanpakuto the first time though, starting with asuachi instead. They probably don't learn their initial release until later, once they've either had a good bit of experience or go through something comparable to the shattered shaft in their actual work. As for the normal souls, possibly it's that they're in heaven, so therefore most of them are not discontent.
 * Alternately, it falls under the Bleach catchall explanation: the whole place is made entirely out of spirit particles! And Heuco Mundo twice as entirely! (Anyone care to guess what the King's Realm is going to be made out of? lol.) --tjstrf talk 07:01, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Bleach Tagalog Cast
Please put the first 5 main cast in Bleach are GMA Network Kapuso Cast. The rest are Alta Productions Voice Actors/Actress.

GMA Artist:


 * Marky Cielo as Kurosaki Ichigo
 * Yasmien Kurdi as Rukia Kuchiki
 * Rainier Castillo as Uryuu Ishida
 * Nicole Anderson as Inoue Orihime
 * Dion Ignacio as Sado Yasutora

Alta Productions Voice Actors/Actress:

The Kurosaki Family:


 * Isshin Kurosaki (Roger Aquino)
 * Masaki Kurosaki (Jing M. Lanzona)
 * Karin Kurosaki (Mary Joy Adorable)

Who also voice in anime series ofHenry01 20:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC) Card Captor Sakura as Tomoyo & Tsubasa Cronicles as Sakura.


 * Yuzu Kurosaki (Roxanne Manato)

Karakura High School:
 * Tatsuki Arisawa (Charvie Abletes)

Who also voice in anime series of Case Closed & Gundam Wing.


 * Keigo Asano (Don Samaniego)

Who also voice in anime series of Samurai X as Sanosuke Sagara & GPX Cyber Formula as Hayato Kazami.


 * Mizuiro Kojima (Ryan Bondoc)
 * Chizuru Honshō (Klariz Magboo)
 * Ryō Kunieda] (Erlich Sandoval)

Urahara Shop:
 * Kisuke Urahara (Don Samaniego)
 * Yoruichi Shihouin (Christian Alvear)

Who also voice in anime series of Mister Ajikko & Card Captor Sakura.


 * Ururu Tsumugiya (Roxanne Manato)
 * Jinta Hanakari (Steven Bontogon)
 * Tessai Tsukabishi (Jimmy Manalo)

Quincy:
 * Ryūken Ishida(Ely Martin)

Who also voice in anime series of Samurai X Shishio Makoto.

Modified soul:
 * Kon (Ryan Bondoc)


 * Shun Shun Rikka:
 * Ayame (Charvie Abletes)
 * Baigon (Erlich Sandoval)
 * Hinagiku(Jimmy Manalo)
 * Lily (Jenny Bituin)

Who also voice in anime series of Suzuka as Suzuka Asahina & Angelic Layer as Misaki Suzuhara


 * Shun'ō](Jenny Bituin)
 * Tsubaki (Jimmy Manalo)

Soul Society:

1st Division:


 * Shigekuni Yamamoto-Genryūsai (Roger Aquino)

2nd Division:


 * Soifon (Jing M. Lanzona)
 * Marechiyo Ōmaeda (Angelo Crisolo)

3rd Division:


 * Gin Ichimaru(Angelo Crisolo)
 * Izuru Kira (Ed Belo)

4th Division:


 * Yasochika Iemura(Ryan Bondoc)
 * Hanatarō Yamada (Alex Carbon)
 * Retsu Unohana (Charvie Abletes)

5th Division:


 * Sōsuke Aizen (Ryan Bondoc)
 * Momo Hinamori (Klariz Magboo)

6th Division:


 * Byakuya Kuchiki (Robert Brillantes)

Who also voice in anime series of Dragon Ball Z as Son Gohan & YU-Gi-Oh! as Yugi Mutou.


 * Renji Abarai(Ely Martin)

7th Division:


 * Sajin Komamura (Ed Belo)
 * Tetsuzaemon Iba (Erlich Sandoval)

8th Division:


 * Shunsui Kyōraku (Erlich Sandoval)
 * Nanao Ise (Khristel Mallorca)

9th Division:

Kaname Tōsen(Jimmy Manalo)

10th Division:


 * Tōshirō Hitsugaya (Steven Bontogon)
 * Rangiku Matsumoto (Klariz Magboo)

Who also voice in anime series of Ikki Tousen as Hakufu Sonsaku.

11th Division:


 * Yachiru Kusajishi (Roxanne Manato)
 * Ikkaku Madarame (Ely Martin)
 * Yumichika Ayasegawa (Don Samaniego)
 * Makizō Aramaki (Alan Ortega)

Who also voice in anime series of Getbackers as Ginji Amano

12th Division:


 * Mayuri Kurotsuchi (Don Samaniego)
 * Nemu Kurotsuchi (Khristel Mallorca)

13th Division:


 * Jūshirō Ukitake (Ed Belo)
 * Kaien Shiba (Ryan Bondoc)
 * Miyako Shiba (Jing M. Lanzona)
 * Kiyone Kotetsu (Jenny Bituin)
 * Sentarō Kotsubaki (Jimmy Manalo)

The Source thanks to My Friend Angelo. Who Also Voice Actor in Bleach.

Henry01 20:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry to tell you, but you just wasted your time. We are only listing the Japanese and English voice actors (don't ask me why, 'cause I don't know). // Decaimiento  Poético  20:05, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming it's because this is the English wiki so we list English and we list Japanese because it's the original. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 20:08, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I assume that this is the case. The really important listings we need are only the English VAs and the Japanese seiyus. Any other voice actors arent notable enough for inclusion. This info might be helpful on the Tagalog Wikipedia version of this page... -- Ghost Stalker  (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 22:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Should Zanpakutō be filed under races
They are living beings thedarklonewolf
 * They should be discussed under the shinigami section. –Gunslinger47 18:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * When discussing character types character are filled by saying "all characters are souls". Zanpankutōs are living souls in their own right. So I think when Zanpankutōs should be noted as souls by them selfs or be noted as souls such when they are noted in the Shinigami section of souls. thedarklonewolf 19:35 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * A zanpakutō is no more separate from its owner than you are separate from your arm. It is not a race, it is a symbiotic being in many respects. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:16, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Then why are they called "True Spirits". Zanpakutō have note as being true spirits by them selfs and can live on even after their owner dies. So they are souls in their own right. thedarklonewolf 21:04 June 10 2007 (UTC)


 * They are individually tied to their users. They are sentient but merely a production of the user's soul. Furthermore, your proposal fails considering that arrancar zanpakutō are not sentient at all. Sephiroth BCR (Converse)  02:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I foregot to say "save for Arranar's Zanpakutō". However Shinigami's are shown be only to be "like" their owner (usually) but have thier personalities and are sometime farley different from there owner. Like Ikkaku and Hōzukimaru fore instants. thedarklonewolf


 * No, it's an absurd splitting of hairs. Zanpakuto may have a spiritual body within the mind of their owner, but they're normally just a weapon. While it is possible for them to manifest outside, this page shouldn't go into that level of detail.
 * Besides, if we give zanpakuto spirits an entry, then what about Ichigo's "inner Kenpachi"? Shouldn't he deserve one as well? We decided against even giving arrancar or vizard their own entries, this is just silly. --tjstrf talk 09:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Point taken. I just want to make sure my point was made. But as far as Ichigo's so called "inner Kenpachi" all that was, was Ichigo's will to fight taken the form of Zaraki telling Ichigo that he does not need some mayor reson for every single fight and that fighting just for the reson of fighting can be the best reson of all. thedarklonewolf

Images on their way to deletion
User:Malevious is tagging Bleach images for lacking fair-use, but at least one uploader is not going to notice in time. Those looking for something to do might want to scan through Category:Bleach images looking for images he tagged. –Gunslinger47 02:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've added fair use rationale to quite a few images, although I think that to be on the safe side, we need to reduce the resolution of those images not significantly cropped. For example, 480x360 is a decent size which clearly displays the subject. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 02:21, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I asked about it earlier on WP:NONFREE's talk page. 288p was the highest resolution that no one complained about.  That's 384x288 for regular 4:3 images and 512x288 for 16:9. –Gunslinger47 02:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Should Yoruichi Shihouin be a major character?
Yoruichi was a big character in the seires, she should be added as a major character.Ultimaterasengan 13:22, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No, she's a significant supporting cast member, but she was never really in the spotlight, and fell off the team after the SS arc. She's on the same level of significance as characters like Hitsugaya, Hanataro, Ganju, Byakuya, Shinji, Nell Tu, and so on: temporary team members or secondary characters that got some development but never really became part of the core group. Before you counter that Urahara's on the list, that's because Urahara is the primary team mentor and thus a driving plot force.
 * Right now, the one main character we're missing from the list is Sōsuke Aizen, and that's intentional. When December roles around, we should probably add him to the list. --tjstrf talk 18:53, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes but she was the one who trained Orihime, Chad and Ichigo. When she trained Ichigo for Bankai that was pretty important, she was also introducted at about the same time as Urahara and has had nearly the same amount of importance to the team.Ultimaterasengan 18:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * And when Hanataro repeatedly stopped Ichigo from dying, that was pretty important as well. It doesn't change that his and Yoruichi's roles were ultimately temporary. Except Urahara, who is a special case, the current main character list is made up of characters that meet the following criteria:
 * Consistently important from time of introduction until present. (Yoruichi fails this one)
 * Have been on the core character team ("ryoka" group) for at least one trip. (Yoruichi passes this one)
 * Strong connection to Ichigo. (Yoruichi fails this one as well)
 * For the males at least, have seen quite a bit of combat. (Yoruichi semi-fails this one)
 * In conclusion, Yoruichi just doesn't qualify for the same standards as the other mains do. --tjstrf talk 19:01, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

She doesn't fail in combat.
 * I can count on my left hand how many battles she's been in. I remember two off the top of my head, but will give her an extra just because I'm feeling generous. That's not enough involvement to classify her as a main character. Jezebel Parks 22:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

okay fine you win.Ultimaterasengan 00:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually I wanna reopen this one for discussion. Becuase I got a few things to say about Yoruichi VS Criteria: 1.Important since Appearence: She is indeed not very important after her intro. Nothing centers around her. But she is the main guide around the Soul Society Arc for the core team. 2. Been on Core Character Team: Pass, very distinct pass. Not sure anyone would argue this anyways. 3. Strong Connection to Ichigo: To be honest she has about as much connection as Urahara. Urahara trained Ichigo and brought out his Shikai/Shinigami Powers back. Yoruichi trained Ichigo and brought out his bankai. She also saved his life when he was going to fight Byakuya for the secound time. So roughly about the same connection as Urahara. 4. For the males, Must have alot of Combat: You said Yoruichi fails this one but...SHE IS NOT MALE. The rule says "For the" what's that word? Oh yeah "MALES". Not Female. We can't really count this rule against here, it states in itself it doesn't applie to her. But even if it does count against her, yeah you can count all her fights on one hand but...You can do roughly the same with Uryu or Chad. Ishida: VS Hollows(Ichigo VS Uryu competition), VS Shinigami(Using the mass amounts of ranged weaponary), VS A Captain(Mayuri), VS Tousen(Stretching for this one), VS Bount Fangirl, VS Ryuuken Ishida. Hmmm SIX fights? Thats...one hand. Chad: VS Canary's Hollow(With Rukia), VS Random Hollow(With Karin), VS Random tons of Shinigami, VS a Captain(Ukitake)...Oh wow, four battles if you will. Though Yes, I'm going by times not number of people. Otherwise the mass of Shinigami would put him over 100 easy. Same with Uryu and hollows. But Most of those fights are off screen. Now for Yoruichi's fights(Listed in order of anime appearence): VS Byakuya(More of a Fight-Break up, but whatever), VS Soi-Fon, VS Hollow(Soi-Fon's memories), Vs Yammy/Uluquirra. So four fights. Not really too bad even though this rule shouldn't applie to her. Lemme know what ya think. Why bye! 67.11.46.168 12:55, 1 October 2007 (UTC)HeartCard67.11.46.168 12:55, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It was judged best by the users to list Urahara as he directs the operations of Ichigo and Rukia and Renji and the others, and thus he is a special exception, the only current other being Ichigo (he wouldn't have to go through the test anyway). Yorucihi is exempt from battles, yes, but the other two are a no. She isn't close to Ichigo at all, and she's lost her importance after the Yammy fight. In short, except Urahara, Ichigo, and mabye Aizen, all characters will have to take this test, and Yoruichi is far from passing. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 06:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Former 2nd Divison Captain
I've tried this once and it got deleted but Yoruichi was the former 2nd Divison captain until Soifon took over, you can check bleach sites and they will say that.Ultimaterasengan 00:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * She's not. She was a captain in the military corps, not Gotei 13. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Last I remember, she was also a captain, but I don't remember where in the anime or manga it was to look it up :-\ --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * She wasn't, or at least it was never said outright. It's just commonly thought true because Soifon is. --tjstrf talk 02:19, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It also seem natural that she would be a captain if she held that high of a rank in the military corps --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:22, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Her previous rank was equivalent to Yama's, just in a different (and seemingly less important) branch of the military. However, if she had been a Gotei captain as well, I'm pretty sure it would have been in the databooks. --tjstrf talk 02:25, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe it's been stated that she was never a member of the Gotei 13, only joining the Special Forces and the Executive Militia. She had a rank equivalent to Yamamoto, IIRC. It was only after she left that her position was consolidated into the 2nd Division Captaincy under Soifon. -- Ghost Stalker  (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 14:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Not to spoil the fun, but is this related to the article? Dekimasu よ! 14:52, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If you read the first comment, yes it is. We're trying to figure out if she was a captain or not, which effects the articles. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 15:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Considering that she isn't mentioned even once on this page, I think it would be a better conversation to be having at Talk:Yoruichi Shihouin. Even if she was mentioned on this page, I find it very doubtful we would mention her in that context. Dekimasu よ! 00:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * She isn't? That's odd, I thought she was mentioned in passing in Urahara's micro-bio. Either way, we're discussing it here because this is where it was brought up. If you want to relocate it to another venue, I suppose you could. --tjstrf talk 00:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You can get a broader discussion here though since not everyone has that page watchlisted. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 00:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Well Tite Kubo doesn't have to say everything about the characters, he could of left the part out for you to fingure out.Ultimaterasengan 17:06, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, until he says "Yoruichi is the former captain of the 2nd division", what you're saying is purely speculation and therefore doesn't belong in Wikipedia. Jezebel Parks 17:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay well it could say that she could of been, that way it will ensure that we could be right or worng.Ultimaterasengan 18:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Even saying it could be true is still speculation. Anything that hasn't been directly revealed by the author(s) doesn't exist. Thus, even if it looks completely obvious, it's still speculation. (For example, one of my earliest Wikipedia edits, where I wrote that Ishida's power loss was not likely to be permanent, was still unacceptable even though a few months later it turned out to be completely accurate.) --tjstrf talk 18:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

On the wikipedia page for Naruto, it almost impiles that the fourth hokage is naruto's father/relitive,but it says it in a way that no on knows we could put something like that in there.Ultimaterasengan 19:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The statement is appropiate considering that practically nothing about the Fourth has been revealed in the series, and is a continuing theme present. Yoruichi's being a captain is minor in comparison.  Sephiroth BCR ( Converse ) 19:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Minor or not, speculation is against policy. If the naruto articles say that without proof then remove it or tag it as needing a source. We need to cut down on any speculation. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 19:09, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought it was started that Yoruichi was never a member of the Gotei 13, as I mentioned earlier. I dont have the exact chapter, but I remember her saying something to that effect when she tells Ichigo that Urahara was the former 12th Division Captain. -- Ghost Stalker  (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 19:35, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

There is no need to take it off of there. From the time I have seen it that statement has been on there for 2 years and no one said anything, I'm sure wikipedia is fine with it and it has a source. All he said is that it has been mentioned through out the series but hasen't been confirmed. But if two bleach sites say that Yoruichi was a captain then couldn't we reference them?


 * Why reference a fansite for speculative information that we shouldn't be including in the first place? --tjstrf talk 22:36, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I just remembered something, okay, there are divisons within the remote corps, i think she was the leader of the 2nd one and soifon is both leader of the 2nd divison in the gotei and corps squad.Ultimaterasengan 23:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yoruichi was the commander of the entire covert ops. Soifon is commander of the entire covert ops, and captain of the Gotei 2nd division. That is all we know. --tjstrf talk 23:19, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

not just that but i read something that said she was also the head of an entire unit.Ultimaterasengan 23:32, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That would be the covert ops, which is an army unto itself separate from the Gotei 13. --tjstrf talk 23:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

okay but if you read everyone elses comments it says that she had the same status as a captain mabye higher because of her noble rank.Ultimaterasengan 23:58, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you paying attention? She was the commander-general of the Covert Ops. That's not a captain rank, it's Yamamato's rank. The covert ops are one of the three branches of the overall shinigami military, the Gotei 13 is another, and the third is the kido brigade. Have you tried reading Shinigami (Bleach)? We explain it all there. --tjstrf talk 00:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * She most likely had the same status as a captain, but that does not mean she was one. Since she was in charge of covert ops, she would've probably had the same rank as a captain, but it does not mean she was one. I thought she was a captain as well as the leader of the covert ops but apparently I was wrong. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 00:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

YES I HAVE READ THE SHINIGAMI THING! I"VE READ IT LIKE 100 TIMES! and if you say she had Yamamato's rank that would make her the former captain of the 1st divison wich she has never been!Ultimaterasengan 01:20, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Same rank, not office. --tjstrf talk 01:25, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Stop yelling. You've been proven wrong. Let it go. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:34, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. It can't be verified.  It can't be included.  –Gunslinger47 04:27, 4 July 2007

(UTC)


 * All of this is just speculation just as the last person said. If anybody can find anything, including manga, anime, databooks, interviews (with Tite), mentioning this fact, we'll be happy to put this in. But otherwise, no way. Anyways, just for arguments sake, she has always been and stayed with Zaraki, and has not taken any official shinigami training, so as far as we can guess, Zaraki just had seen how powerful she was (like when that messenger dude tried to get her to go, but she used her riatsu to stop him), and appointed her as his luitenent. Soooo, how would she have become a captain? She wouldn't be half as powerful to beat up a captain, she doesn't seem to be able to do bankai, cause Hitsuyaga is the youngest person to get their bankai. And since the other way is to do your bankai + get approval from the captains, she can't have been. She's just too young.Pejmany (talk) 01:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Formatting
I don't actually know how, but if we could do some formatting so that there wasn't that big white space at the beginning of the Introduction section, it would look much nicer. I tried a few things, but the only thing that seems to work is moving the picture out of alignment. EDIT: I left-oriented the picture, and made the section a touch longer so that it would fit better. Midaki 05:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't see the white space before. At what resolution are you viewing the page? Dekimasu よ! 01:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 1680x1050, widescreen. Gigantor. I suppose that is why. Midaki 07:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Reversed names?
I just have one question it's about there names, Ichigo's name is written out as Ichigo Kurosaki there for putting his name before his family's, but then why is Matsumoto's and Hitsugaya's family name put before there own, they are the only two who have there family name written before there's, in a Janpanese format. And in episode 131-132 I notice that they start introducing them selfes as "Matsumoto Rangiku" and "Hitusgaya Toshiro". When they used to reverse there names putting Rangiku before Matsumoto and Toshiro before Hitsugaya?Ultimaterasengan 13:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Umm, Toshiro and Rangiku are the respective first names of the 10th Division Captain and Lieutenant. And we use western name order for all of the characters on this Wikipedia because this is the English Wikipedia and the Viz dub of the show also uses those naming conventions. Also, the anime, because it is orignally in Japanese, uses Japanese naming conventions, putting the family name in front of the given name. -- Ghost Stalker  (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 14:56, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes I know how the Janpanese naming works but still when first introducted Matsumoto and Hitsugaya introducted themselfes as Toshiro Hitsugaya and Rangiku Matsumoto but later on it became Matsumoto Rangiku and Hitsugaya Toshiro I'm just asking about that. Plus why dose Hitsugaya always refer to Matsumoto as Matsumoto when Ikkaku or Ichigo refer to her as Rangiku-san?160.253.128.7 15:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Why do some of my friends call me "Jezzy" or "Parks" instead of Jezebel? People have different ways of referring to others.  Women in the work place are usually referred to by their surnames by their superiors.  How does this help the article?  This isn't a place to ask these types of questions randomly. This isn't a fan forum.  Jezebel Parks 16:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm was asking to see if the names sould be reversed on there pages, okay sheesh I was just asking.Ultimaterasengan 17:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually in this case it's a case of relation. Matsumoto and Toshiro have a somewhat close relationship, thus he refers to her by her first name even if she refers to him as Captain most of the time. It's much how Orihime refers to Ichigo as Kurosaki-kun despite knowing him a long time, as a humbility/to humble herself*Spellcheck Failed* or how Tatsuki refers to Ichigo as Ichigo instead of Kurosaki. Though Ichigo refering to Sado as Chad is much like what you said about Jezzy/Jezebel. It's a matter of relationship for the most part(Much like the use of -kun instead of -chan or -sama, the relations defines how they'll address you. Thus Rukia's addressing Byakuya as Nii-sama instead of Nii-chan, becuase she respects him more than most would as a brother.) Why bye! 67.11.46.168 06:39, 28 September 2007 (UTC)HeartCard67.11.46.168 06:39, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Aw hell
Anime done used "bankai". What to do, what to do? — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * They had to use bankai, otherwise the voice synch would have gone off. Plus, you know how hard it would be to put a good hot-blooded scream into "FINAL RELEASE"?
 * I'd be fine with switching, like we did with Kido. Other people may differ in opinion though. --tjstrf talk 06:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Switching is fine. As tjstrf pointed out, we did the same thing with kidō.  Sephiroth BCR ( Converse ) 06:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with switching. Sure as hell sounds cooler than the English. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 09:33, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If you had no problem with switching, why did you make it sound like you did in your original comment? :P -- Ghost Stalker  (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 12:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have seemed to have missed something here. What happened?!Hanaichi 13:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Nothing, I was just being facetious... -- Ghost Stalker  (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 13:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Happiness just isn't as funny. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:33, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

On this matter, did the anime refer to initial release as shikai? I imagine it did for consistency reasons, but I would like that confirmed.  Sephiroth BCR ( Converse ) 21:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think I remember that in episode 42. Though, I don't recall exactly. Lord Sesshomaru


 * I checked, episode 42 has Yoruichi saying the initial release is called Shikai and the final release is called bankai.--Hanaichi 02:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thought so. {^_^} Lord Sesshomaru

Structure edits
I want to make a few structure edits. But i didn't want to just make them without some consent/aproval/comments. An edited version of the article is available here.

Changes I made: --88wolfmaster 05:49, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * created a characters section and made Main characters and character types subsections
 * moved media section below setting
 * alphabetized the setting list
 * alphabetized the character types list
 * other settings edits


 * I've reverted your earlier edits, I think the list is made by order of appearance/explanation of each type. Err why is the media information under the settings? The history/media information of the show should be above the main introduction of the show.-- Hana ichi  05:52, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * it isn't in order of appearance, cause Rukia is in the first scene. but even if it was I'd still prefer alphabetical order because list of appearance only really makes sense if your dealing with characters. Most of the media information is already overviewed in the infobox. And while the information is important, you can get most of it already (in the infobox) I think its better introducing the plot, characters, setting, etc. first. (All 3 Anime FA - Excel Saga, Serial Experiments Lain, Madlax- follow a similar setup or even have this information in the lead).--88wolfmaster 06:02, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Even if not strictly in order of appearance due to the shot of Rukia at the beginning, it's in the order in which the names are revealed. Dekimasu よ! 04:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * A major difference between this article and the articles of those three FAs (one of which doesn't really look like an FA to me) is that those series have all reached their conclusion. There aren't likely to be significant or ongoing developments in the media information on those series, but that isn't the case here. It's a mistake for those articles to have any information in the media section that isn't presented elsewhere in the article; I remember having suggested that we move some of the media information into the introduction previously, but the issue with the plot summary placeholder remains, and my suggestion to add that media information to the intro was turned down. Dekimasu よ! 04:23, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I see, you've done your research well. Well I won't stop you, but its better to decide with the other other editors first.-- Hana ichi  06:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Your version looks good to me. In my opinion, your organization is better than what we have now. I don't see why media information is first. That just seems strange to me. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions
 * I've returned the media information to its previous position for now. There are a few reasons I think it goes better there (it used to be at the bottom, but someone [not me] moved it to the top several months ago). First, it separates the plot blurb in the actual introduction from the very similar blurb in our "introduction" section, a section that doesn't really serve much purpose but which acts as a placeholder since we don't have a real plot summary section. Having them together looks very repetitive. Second, it reinforces an out-of-universe perspective for the article and helps show notability in a tangible fashion. The article is not just about the characters and setting of Bleach, but is the parent article for the entire Bleach franchise. Anyone else? Dekimasu よ! 04:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

First: i'm following the lead of the 3 anime/manga FA, second: reception and style sections would be better to reduce the article being solely about the character, etc., third: plot summaries are not highly rated on wiki because they tend to be in-verse (so thats why we have an introduction), fourth: the whole article should be out-of-verse and where the media section is should not affect that. So, i've edited the lead - which could still use tweaking - (because that is not the place for such an in-depth plot overview) and moved media section back down (becuase most of the information is repeated right their in the infobox).--88wolfmaster 04:44, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That's not why we don't have a plot summary. We don't have it because there were arguments as to whether it was appropriate to include one while the series was ongoing and only in its early stages of English publication/dubbing, and because no one has actually written one (although at one point we discussed translating the Japanese version). The introduction is an incomplete plot summary, and in that sense is more closely related to an advertising blurb than a serious discussion of the topic. In light of the subsequent deprecation of the various spoiler templates I think it's fair to say that we should have a plot summary in the article. There is no question that it needs to presented in an out-of-universe fashion, but an overview of the plot is necessary for an encyclopedic treatment of the subject.
 * I also disagree that most of the information is repeated in the infobox. If the section is moved down, things like the sales statistics and publication information should be included in the lead section to show notability; they are far more important than whether there have been OVAs or a musical. In fact, some of those things were in the lead section before the meda info section was moved up. Anyway, the article must take primacy over the infobox. Dekimasu よ! 06:01, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Filler end August 22?
Hello wikipedian and editers,

I went to the episode guide it said episode 138 "Second move of Hueco Mundo! Hitsugaya vs Yammy" and episode 139 "Ichigo vs Grimmjow, 11 second battle!" is really the real manga where we left off after ichigo recover his hollow power after his training with the vizard. Rickengothic 2:25, August 12 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea we know. I'm so happy!Finally...-- Hana ichi  07:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

About the revert of my revert
I remember checking to see if that should be linked before, but failing to find the correct article. It appears AnimeCentral is a valid link, but Anime Central refers to something else entirely. It seems to me there's a need for a dab. Dekimasu よ! 13:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Yoruichi Shihouin's romanization
How does VIZ romanize Yoruichi's name in the manga and anime? WhisperToMe 05:56, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure there's no apostrophes, if that's the question. Dekimasu よ! 07:39, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Genre
Shouldn't it also be under comedy as well? -Cicaneo
 * We've already had this discussion. It isn't a comedy because a comedy anime refers to a show that concentrates solely on funny things, such as Excel Saga and possibly Azumanga Daioh.  Bleach is action/fighting, over all, Shonen.  It doesn't focus on humor enough to make it a comedy. Jezebel Parks 07:28, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Deletion and merger of articles
While most agreed that some articles would need to be merged (like Chōjirō Sasakibe), the merging is getting out of hand. TTN now merged Izuru Kira, an important character with numerous appearances, who even takes part in the Bount filler arc, into List of Bleach shinigami. What's more, a consensus was never reached at the discussion on what exactly to merge, and the only revised proposals were made by User:Artist Formerly Known As Whocares, who isn't even active on Bleach-related pages. This problem needs to be fixed ASAP and the mass-merging has to be stopped until a concensus is reached on each and every character.

The above comment will appear on Talk:Bleach (manga) and Talk:List of Bleach characters. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 09:10, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone now merged Yamamoto, Unohana and Komamura. He's just deleting articles, that's undercover vandalism. Someone stop him please 82.52.33.49 20:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Bleach Official Bootleg: Colorful Bleach +
Well, the full scans are now out on the internet (Download thread at BleachExile), and while much of them are trivial facts, there are still some worth mentioning materials in there (such as the complete info on the Insignias, as well as battle data for each captains). Also, this book should be included under the list of medias on the media page (though I'm not sure if this should belong to the Manga section or the databooks section). Anyway, have fun with it! I'm too busy to help maintaining/adding materials in the articles lately. --Finestela 15:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Bizarre opposition to cosplay image(s)
The image Image:Bleach cosplay.jpg has been removed twice. I do wonder why, given arguments are: In responce I will say: The article is also image-light, and last but not least - this is the only free licence image on this page. Our policies for fair use images are getting stricter by day, and anybody familiar with pains of FA-quality anime articles which do indeed feature ONLY cosplay images on main page (as they are the only free images available) should know that cosplay is quite acceptable and helpful in illustrating the subject(s) in question.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * this is an English wikipedia, which I don't believe includes Brazil
 * no pictures of cosplayers
 * Poor quality picture that adds nothing to the article
 * English Wikipedia is an international project and argument that photos from non-English parts of the world only shows lack of understanding of this project
 * I am not familiar with any policy or guideline that would discourage use of cosplayer's photos
 * the picture has good resolutions and focus - hardly "poor quality" - and adds quite a few things to the article (images of characters not on screenshots, proof of reception worldwide reception)


 * While personally I'm not against the usage of such photos, unless the article directly talks about the cosplay aspect of the work (in this case, Bleach), I don't see it should be used in this particular case. It's like the usage of doujin/fan-drawn images. Unless you're dealing with the doujin popularity or such, you should refrain from using such images. --Finestela 17:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Everyone on WP:ANIME basically said not to use them for different reasons. (Feel free to join in on the discussion over there if you haven't already) --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 20:01, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Even if it were agreed upon to use cosplay pictures in the article, there are plenty of American and Japanese cosplay pictures to choose from. I don't see why we would use a picture of Brazilian cosplayers when this article doesn't focus of the Brazilian/Portuguese version of the show.  And they're right, it adds nothing to the article.  Jezebel Parks 20:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * why american? 217.43.27.170 21:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

FLC
As apparently no one has seen this yet, List of Bleach Soul Society: The Sneak Entry arc episodes has been nominated for FL status here. Please express your comments and any possible improvements, and note that there is one day until the nomination closes.  Sephiroth BCR ( Converse ) 06:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)